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KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I received my blank proxies for the annual meeting of my mother's Homeowners association. I've never seen this, but it states that if I don't return the proxy by the deadline, it constitutes "a vote in favor of the slate of candidates or such actions as proposed by the incumbent slate of directors as set forth in the notice of the annual meeting."

I have never realized that HOAs can assign an affirmative count on unreceived proxies, which I figure is a way to obtain quorum without actually receiving enough proxies or in-person attendance. I'm not judging this but have always operating under my community that unreceived proxies are useless for quorum or elections.

Do any of you have policy experience with such proxy rules for annual meetings? Can CC&Rs pretty much outline any method of counting proxies? I know state laws will set some HOA terms when an HOA doesn't have robust CC&Rs.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I think this confuses people. Blame apathy on this one. A HOA has to count non votes. However, that does not mean ignore and only use those submitted. 50 of 100 people responding still has to have 100.

What to do with the votes if no one casts? The HOA figures that a non vote or response means no objection. If no one objects then it counts as a yes vote.

Now if 45 people voted no and objected then those votes may change to no. That the will of the people is no.

So non votes can be subjective.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I say a not returned Proxy/Ballot is a non vote. It is not a yes or no vote no matter how worded.
ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 03/15/2022 7:10 AM
I received my blank proxies for the annual meeting of my mother's Homeowners association. I've never seen this, but it states that if I don't return the proxy by the deadline, it constitutes "a vote in favor of the slate of candidates or such actions as proposed by the incumbent slate of directors as set forth in the notice of the annual meeting."

I have never realized that HOAs can assign an affirmative count on unreceived proxies, which I figure is a way to obtain quorum without actually receiving enough proxies or in-person attendance. I'm not judging this but have always operating under my community that unreceived proxies are useless for quorum or elections.

Do any of you have policy experience with such proxy rules for annual meetings? Can CC&Rs pretty much outline any method of counting proxies? I know state laws will set some HOA terms when an HOA doesn't have robust CC&Rs.


There are people here who actually know what they're talking about. Wait for their response(s).

In the meantime, this is common for corporations needing to hold and conduct business at their Annual meetings. The process is structured so that everyone gets voting materials and a proxy to use, because almost no one actually flies in to the meeting, and the Board retains the power to cast any proxy that isn't returned by the date in the notice and the person doesn't show up in-person to the meeting. Why, this is how it even works at my local credit union.

And, yes, it makes it next to impossible to challenge the status quo.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Make bit clearer. Your HOA has assigned the value of non votes to be yes votes. This may been a ploy on their part to get the apathetic to vote. Meaning seeing something say by my not voting means I agree then maybe I should vote?

Our HOA struggled with this. I would look up what a non vote means. Can it be assigned a value of yes or no? Do they get tossed. This maybe a legal question.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
IF, the proxy says a non-returned proxy means a yes vote, then it WILL be counted toward quorum and marked as yes.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
That sounds fishy to me, and I'd want to see the language in the bylaws and/or state law that says this interpretation is lawful. I'm guessing that it's not.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/15/2022 7:46 AM
IF, the proxy says a non-returned proxy means a yes vote, then it WILL be counted toward quorum and marked as yes.

I can say the proxy language is very clear and easy to understand. In fact, it's printed twice. My bet is apathy is high. This is a self-managed HOA so status quo would be very important to those leaders, I'd think.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When we ran a vote to close our pool, we used ballots and they were clear in stating you had to vote yes or no. If you returned it as blank, it didn't automatically go in one bucket or the other. With our proxies for the annual meeting, you can indicate if it's to be used for establishing quorum or nothing else, if you're naming someone to attend the meeting to vote on your behalf or if the president is authorized to vote on your behalf.

This sounds like the board is trying to do something similar to what many counties do in primary or general elections - you can cast a vote for each individual or vote for everyone in the same party in one shot. Personally, I think that's a lazy way to vote - if you want to vote for all the incumbents, simply make that a selection option and return it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I completely agree with Cathy.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasP13 on 03/15/2022 7:27 AM

In the meantime, [what the OP described] is common for corporations needing to hold and conduct business at their Annual meetings. The process is structured so that everyone gets voting materials and a proxy to use, because almost no one actually flies in to the meeting, and the Board retains the power to cast any proxy that isn't returned by the date in the notice and the person doesn't show up in-person to the meeting. Why, this is how it even works at my local credit union.
I have owned stock in many publicly traded corporations over the years. I have voted using the proxy form many a time. I do not remember proxy cards stating what ThomasP13 states.

I can say that the procedure for submitting proxies cannot include requirements that go beyond the CCRs, Bylaws, or state law. For example, if a COA/HOA Board decides to require notarizing, but the CCRs, Bylaws and state law have no such requirement, then the Board is violating the CCRS and Bylaws, then per case law, an owner has an action (meaning a viable lawsuit) against the COA/HOA to stop the requirement for notarization.

I am not convinced yet that what the OP's mother's COA/HOA is doing is kosher. I will dig a bit more.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
The relevant NC statutes appear to me to be clear that a person may vote by proxy only when certain steps are taken. From the NC nonprofit corporation statute:


A member may appoint one or more proxies to
vote or otherwise act for the member by signing an appointment form, either personally or
by the member's attorney-in-fact. An appointment in the form of an electronic record
submitted by a member who has agreed as provided in G.S. 55A-1-70 that either bears the
member's electronic signature or is sent from the member's designated email address and
that may be directly reproduced in paper form by an automated process shall be deemed a
valid appointment form within the meaning of this section


From the NC HOA statute 47F:


Votes allocated to a lot may be cast pursuant to a proxy duly executed by a lot owner. If a lot is owned by more than one person, each owner of the lot may vote or register protest to the casting of votes by the other owners of the lot through a duly executed proxy. A lot owner may not revoke a proxy given pursuant to this section except by actual notice of revocation to the person presiding over a meeting of the association. A proxy is void if it is not dated. A proxy terminates 11 months after its date, unless it specifies a shorter term.


"Duly executed" surely means the lot owner took certain physical steps to submit an actual proxy. That is, the lot owner didn't just throw the proxy in the trash can and expect anyone to believe her/his throwing the proxy out meant she/he had just "executed" (signed, dated et cetera) the proxy.

From NC condo statute 47C:


Votes allocated to a unit may be cast pursuant to a proxy duly executed by a unit
owner. If a unit is owned by more than one person, each owner of the unit may vote or register
protest to the casting of votes by the other owners of the unit through a duly executed proxy. A
unit owner may not revoke a proxy given pursuant to this section except by written notice of
revocation delivered to the person presiding over a meeting of the association. A proxy is void
if it is not dated.


I see other corporations that seem to be doing similar to the corporation in question. E.g. See https://www.buchanantheatre.com/members. As ThomasP13 suggests, maybe it is not uncommon. But for NC HOAs, COAs and nonprofit corporations, I think the format the OP describes is not a lawful proxy to the extent the HOA or COA is counting unreceived (and so not executed; not dated; et cetera) proxy forms as votes.

I would not be surprised if there were case law on this.

I would be interested to know whether others read the statute sections as I do.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That does not answer the question. Is a non vote or not returned proxies count as a yes or no. The HOA is saying if you do not vote or proxy is blank that is a yes vote.

What does your research say?

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Augustin's interpretation of "Votes allocated to a unit may be cast pursuant to a proxy duly executed by a unit owner."

I'm thinking "executed" does mean signed. We often see that HOA owners may review "executed" contracts, for instance. This means once th contract is signed by all parties.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Augustin's interpretation of "Votes allocated to a unit may be cast pursuant to a proxy duly executed by a unit owner."

I'm thinking "executed" does mean signed. We often see that HOA owners may review "executed" contracts, for instance. This means once th contract is signed by all parties.

In most its that've been mentioned on this forum, Robert's Rules of Order (RONR) is required for meetings of the members, e.g., elections. I wonder if it has anything about proxies.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/15/2022 10:21 AM
That does not answer the question. Is a non vote or not returned proxies count as a yes or no. The HOA is saying if you do not vote or proxy is blank that is a yes vote.

What does your research say?

a non-returned proxy is neither a vote yes-or-no. It is an absent attendance and not present for a vote. The state law quoted says that a decided action by the proxy owner needs to happen in order to make the proxy become a "present" and able to vote.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with Augustin and Kerry. "Executed" means signed and delivery at least attempted. I think you'd have a pretty hard time convincing a court to interpret chucking an unsigned proxy into the trash as an affirmative vote - if anything it should be interpreted as a "no" (although I think that is also stretching things).
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
I agree with everyone who has stated that it's not valid to count non-existing proxy's.

An attorney consult may be the only way to nullify the proxy.

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