šŸ’¬ Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚔ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JennyS6 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
They said there will be work to be done inside my property to fix the fire sprinkler and need to reimburse the HOA $2,000. They initiated this. Am I suppose to pay or the HOA? Pls any advise.

Thank you

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
More details. You have to let them in. Did you not allow them access prior?

Former HOA President
JennyS6 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
They will be doing thr work in a couple to days. I was just wondering am I suppose to pay for it ?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I don't see where you discussed any of this with the board. I find it odd that you'd get a letter like this out of the blue. As Melissa said, you need to provide more details if you want suggestions on how to address this.

Even then, it would make sense to check your documents to see who's responsible for what and maybe call an attorney - waiting for responses from the internet when this is happening in a few days isn't a good idea.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JennyS6 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I just got the condo last year. And this is the first letter they sent me. It says on the letter cc&r's

Ower Liability for negligent damage. In thr even the need for any maintenance, repair, or replacement by the association is caused by the willful or negligent act or omission of an owner or a resident, a member of his or her household, pets, tenants, invitees, or guests, the cost of such supplies, and services shall be charged to and paid by the Owner of the Condominium in the form of a Reimbursement Assessment.

How is it a neligent on my part when I just got the place and had no knowledge of this?

Pls advise.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
JennyS6, for this forum to provide meaningful assistance, I think this forum will need a lot more details on the damage.

For now, do consider pursuing what is called "internal dispute resolution" (IDR) with your condo association. Tell your manager you want to pursue this and ask for the procedure to do so. The law requires IDR (as a first step). Please read here:

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/I/Internal-Dispute-Resolution
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would reply back to about what the damages are and when they were incurred. At first, thought it could have been part of a special assessment needed to repair the Condo's sprinkler system. This would be understandable as they may have passed it prior to your moving in. It may have been why the seller sold? Do not know the details of how you bought the place.

Otherwise, ask them to provide details on what the repairs are. Plus don't deny them access. Just let them do the job. Argue the bill later. This is for a sprinkler system after all. A HUGE safety item you should have regardless in place.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The CC&Rs for our condo building say that Owners are responsible for any damage caused by leaks from their unit including from fire sprinklers. The fire sprinklers belong to you and you're obligated to maintain them, i.e., to have them checked.

Did your fire sprinkler cause damage to a unit below or to the common area? If so, I believe the HOA must call you to a hearing to get your side of the story before they can levy an "enforcement assessment," which is to fix something that you damaged or to fix your sprinklers before they cause damage.

Or is the HOA saying they need to be replaced for some reason? In other words, WHY does the HOA say they need repairs.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
This is beginning to sound like the seller didn't tell you everything (that NEVER happens!)

I'd pursue this appeal, as Augustin suggested and take another look at your sales documents. I don't know if your state has any laws requiring disclosure of certain things when buying a house in an HOA - if so, an attorney may be able to tell you if you might have any recourse against the seller. Otherwise, you may have to hire the bullet and pay this.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Look up "reimbursement assessment" in your CC&Rs, Jenny. I'm guessing the HOA must hold a hearing that you'd attend to justify sending your this bill.

Again, please tell us WHAT the HOA says is s wrong with your sprinkler head(s).
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JennyS6 on 03/13/2022 8:46 AM
I just got the condo last year. And this is the first letter they sent me. It says on the letter cc&r's

Ower Liability for negligent damage. In thr even the need for any maintenance, repair, or replacement by the association is caused by the willful or negligent act or omission of an owner or a resident, a member of his or her household, pets, tenants, invitees, or guests, the cost of such supplies, and services shall be charged to and paid by the Owner of the Condominium in the form of a Reimbursement Assessment.

How is it a neligent on my part when I just got the place and had no knowledge of this?

Pls advise.

This is where you need to call your real estate agent and get the title company on the horn. I would call the HOA to see if this was a prior violation that should have gone against the prior owner.
If this was a prior violation the HOA has no business going after you.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
first and foremost,, respond to the letter in writing! make sure you send a copy to the attorney for the association.

You have 30 days usually to respond. DO NOT IGNORE THE LETTER

If you can post the full text of the letter, I'm sure you will get better advice about what to include in your response

Don't argue with them, don't say I just moved here. You want to dispute the charge and you need to give a reason. Just buying the place is not a reason.
JennyS6 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
This was inspected before I moved in. They will be replacing fire sprinker 8 different places such as master bedroom, master closer, small bed closet etc. Can anyone pls advice me an email format on how I should go about writing them an email and not soundinf mean. Thank you so much.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Why should it sound mean? Your asking for more clarification. Which is why do I need to pay the 2K? What damages am I paying for? It is a bit unclear. Could this be a special assessment situation? Meaning that you have to pay your part for the sprinkler system repairs?

It does sound like the HOA is doing anything wrong. It sounds like they are addressing a serious situation. It just not clear why the payment is involved. You may still need to pay. Just need to understand why.

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JennyS6 on 03/14/2022 6:59 AM
This was inspected before I moved in. They will be replacing fire sprinker 8 different places such as master bedroom, master closer, small bed closet etc. Can anyone pls advice me an email format on how I should go about writing them an email and not soundinf mean. Thank you so much.


Dear Board of Directors,

On or about ____, 2022, the HOA notified me that I will have to reimburse the HOA $____ for repairs or upgrades to my unit's fire sprinkler system. Would you please inform me what CC&R authorizes this billing? Would you also explain to me why the sprinklers need repair? Are all units required to have this repair? When and how was it determined that my unit's sprinklers need this repair.

Thank you,

Please consider paying attention to how this is a just-the-facts inquiry. No emotion (I think). No aggressive-reading punctuation like exclamation marks or words in all-caps. No attacks on the Board's decisions. You're just gathering information so you can understand the situation better.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Augustin's letter looks just right.

There are Calif. state requirements to have these sprinklers inspected -- annually, I think. So it sounds like the inspection showed that your sprinklers need to be replaced. You want a copy of the inspection company's written report. Not all condo units will need all of their pro ankles replaced UNLESS there's been a change in the Cali.f requirements and the sprinklers all are somehow out of date.

Jenny, are you sure that there's no such report among the documents you received when you closed escrow on your condo? Most likely, the condo owner IS responsible for maintaining these sprinkler. Most condo CC&Rs say that if an item, e.g., the sprinklers, serve only your unit, you must pay to repair/replace them.

So I'd alter Augie's letter: "Dear Board of Directors,

On or about ____, 2022, the HOA notified me that I will have to reimburse the HOA $____ for repairs or REPLACEMENTS to my unit's fire sprinkler system. Would you please inform me what CC&R authorizes this billing? ALSO PLEASE SEND ME A COPY OF THE INSPECTORS REPORT ON MY UNIT so I can see when and how was it determined that my unit's sprinklers need this repair. Would you also explain to me why the sprinklers need repair? Are all units required to have this repair?

I typed CAPS in what I suggest revising, but you do NOT want to use caps.

JennyS6 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thank you all so much for your help. I will inform you guys once I get a response from them.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
I would go ahead and send the letter usps certified also. This will let them know what you are doing. Email communication is great, But if you received the notice in the regular mail, you should include a response with a certified regular mail also.

this is just my opinion based on my own experience and what worked and didn't work for me .
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
typo, by sending a certified mail response,, this will let the board know ,you know what you are doing ......
JennyS6 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I sent an emil to the HOA. The inspection was done May 2021. I got the place on October 2021. They didnt get the quote until Jan 2022. And the first notice they sent about the repair was last month which is the one I got. I'm assuming the old owner probably knew about this as the inspector came in the house and I'm sure they informed the owner. There's no invoice per unit. The Hoa just sent me a copy and paste of the amount from the company that did the inspection. I was told the inspector's report has all owners listed on the document so it can not be shared. Hoa said I can verify the charges when they do the work.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
I'm not clear how an inspection turned into a quote turned into a bill.. somewhere along the line someone had to decide to move forward with the inspectors suggestions. Was there a vote of some kind? I do know this. if the work is your responsiblity, you should be able to get your own quotes and as long as you follow the guidelines and requirements you can have the work done yourself.. this could save you a lot of money. (depending on how much time the current board took vetting various vendors)

The reason I don't like email for official business. Who did you send the email to? How do you know that's the right person who would handle this issues. I don't have enough information to give any suggestions. If you received the bill for proposed work in the mail, I would respond in the mail.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
They did an inspection but did not get the results of that inspection until January? If that is the case, the previous owner may not have known as there was no results till January. It is in a bit of gray area about if the previous owner or even the HOA should have said something. Not having the results in till after you bought makes it "gray".

So you may not owe 2K? It will depend on what the end result will be? It sounds like this may be split up among all the owners. This is good news. That means may not have to pay as much. It sounds like a special assessment situation. Plus it may be a replacement of damaged equipment.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
It sounds like everything is on the up & up and that no one's trying to take advantage of you. If the entire inspection report is as your MC states, I can see why it's not available to you. I do think you could email the inspection company and ask if you please could have a copy of your own unit's report.

Sprinkler inspectors are in our condo every year and they do not chat with residents and they do not tell us what, if any, sprinkler heads need repair/replacement. So I don't think they said anything to the previous Owner. Such vendors are usually told to keep their mouths shut, do their job and avoid answering residents' questions. This is wise since residents often misunderstand causal chit chat about mechanical/technical matters.

Since your CC&Rs, Jenny, probably say you're responsible for any items that service only your unit, you and all owners will only be charged for what is needed in each individual unit. Some units may need no work; some only a little bit; some residents may have painted over their springers (yes, has happened). Why should you as an individual pay for someone who damages their own unit's sprinklers?

So, Melissa, as is too often the case, is wrong. Unless your CC&Rs say so, each unit is responsible for things in the Unit that serve only them. This will. not be an HOA expenditure, so no "special assessment" is possible. Melissa hasn't lived in a condo so only gave you her exceptionally uneducated opinion.

I know it' hard to think about reading your CC&Rs, but look near the beginning for a Table of Contents, OR an area that has definitions--sort of a little dictionary section. Look up "Unit," which might show you what you're responsible for. The find a n Article about Maintenance Obligations or a similar names, for details.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JennyS6 on 03/15/2022 9:02 PM
I sent an emil to the HOA. The inspection was done May 2021. I got the place on October 2021. They didnt get the quote until Jan 2022. And the first notice they sent about the repair was last month which is the one I got. I'm assuming the old owner probably knew about this as the inspector came in the house and I'm sure they informed the owner. There's no invoice per unit. The Hoa just sent me a copy and paste of the amount from the company that did the inspection. I was told the inspector's report has all owners listed on the document so it can not be shared. Hoa said I can verify the charges when they do the work.


I am no expert, but it sounds like a disclosure issue. Call your real estate agent immediately.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Kerry you just stated what I said and then tell someone NOT to take MY advice?

Stop with the personal attacks already. Now your just not even READING my posts before you start saying don't listen to me. If you had, then you would have seen I gave the SAME advice. It may not been known to the previous owner as the results were NOT given to the HOA till January. That was AFTER the OP had purchased.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I was referring, Melissa, to your wild speculation that maybe all units would share equally in repairing/replacing the sprinklers. That would, of course, be for common area sprinklers. But probably not for in-unit sprinklers. What is your opinion based on that the expenses might be shared or a special assessment might be needed???????
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Re-read what the OP posted AFTER they had additional information. It doesn't read as it if was JUST their unit. If it is NOT just their unit, then a special assessment may be in play. We don't know all the details.

Sounds like the HOA had the sprinklers inspected prior to OP moving in. The results came in AFTER they purchased. It seems that depending on what "damage" is assumed in a unit that owner pays. I don't think the previous owner would have known. The inspectors do not talk to unit owners during the inspection.

It could be that a neighbor painted their ceiling and included the sprinklers. This added weight to the system causing damage. There is not details of the exact damage to the system. This is just an example of what could be part of the "damage" the inspectors found. That could mean only replacing a few sprinkler heads or length of pipe. If you were the painter, it could mean replacing the entire system in your unit. You may be charged accordingly.

Former HOA President
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 03/16/2022 2:22 PM
Posted By JennyS6 on 03/15/2022 9:02 PM
I sent an emil to the HOA. The inspection was done May 2021. I got the place on October 2021. They didnt get the quote until Jan 2022. And the first notice they sent about the repair was last month which is the one I got. I'm assuming the old owner probably knew about this as the inspector came in the house and I'm sure they informed the owner. There's no invoice per unit. The Hoa just sent me a copy and paste of the amount from the company that did the inspection. I was told the inspector's report has all owners listed on the document so it can not be shared. Hoa said I can verify the charges when they do the work.



I am no expert, but it sounds like a disclosure issue. Call your real estate agent immediately.

I, too, am no expert, but I’m with LetA. The inspection was *5 months* before you purchased. And it took an additional 3 months for your HOA to get a quote? Frankly, I’d like to know if and especially *when* the inspectors turned in an initial report to the HOA (and/or possibly the unit owners).

I don’t know what, if any, recourse you might have here, but - speaking as an anonymous stranger on the Internet - I’d be suspicious that the previous owner conveniently ā€˜forgot’ about the matter and left you stuck for the bill. Or maybe not. But for $2000 I’d put a bit of effort into checking it out.

Other - possibly paranoid - thoughts:

- Are you certain you’ve got damage? If you can get the detail from the HOA, you can at least do your own visual inspection of the damage. (and remember, you *want* this stuff to be working properly).

- In my limited experience, the owner is typically given a choice about who does the work. Or, in your case, perhaps not. But if you can get the details, it might be worth checking around to see if $2000 is a reasonable price. It might be a serious gouging. Or it might be a good deal. Speaking for myself: I’d wanna know.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

ā€œYou can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactorā€
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/16/2022 11:49 AM
It sounds like everything is on the up & up and that no one's trying to take advantage of you. If the entire inspection report is as your MC states, I can see why it's not available to you. I do think you could email the inspection company and ask if you please could have a copy of your own unit's report.

Sprinkler inspectors are in our condo every year and they do not chat with residents and they do not tell us what, if any, sprinkler heads need repair/replacement. So I don't think they said anything to the previous Owner. Such vendors are usually told to keep their mouths shut, do their job and avoid answering residents' questions. This is wise since residents often misunderstand causal chit chat about mechanical/technical matters.

I’m not completely sure I agree that ā€œeverything is on the up & upā€, but I agree with all of the other stuff Kerry’s saying. You should be able to - and *should* - get the report for your unit. And yeah, the inspection people tend not to be talkative about this stuff. Which, however, does not mean the previous owner was unaware of any problems.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

ā€œYou can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactorā€
LyndaZ (Ohio)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I would not be surprised if the seller was not informed. We normally will not send letters until we have a dollar amount to specify for the issue. But we also won't wait 8 months to get a quote, especially for a safety issue.

Having said that, I would check your association documents. I have no doubt there is language regarding unit owner responsibility for anything that serves only your unit. But how much of the system serves only your unit? If you are in a multi unit building my guess is it's the heads only and the plumbing serves the entire building. I think I would want to know exactly what they are replacing/repairing.

The second thing about the docs is does it specify the association has the authority to repair/replace what the unit owner is responsible for and presumably owns? (this not a negligence situation if you were not previously informed). If not I would again ask for that inspection report and "shop around" just to make sure they're in the ball park and they aren't doing anything more than what is on that report.

The third thing about the docs is what is the language regarding special assessments levied against one or all unit owners? I know in our docs the association can not levy a special assessment of any kind over $1K without a 75% vote of unit owners.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
LyndaZ's post makes sense to me except the part about a special assessment. if the $2,000 only is for the sprinkler heads in Jenny's unit AND the docs say she's responsible for items that serve only her unit, I don't get the language of "special assessment."

But we don't know what Jenny's docs say or WHAT is wrong with her sprinklers. she's done talkin', I guess.
LyndaZ (Ohio)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Our documents are so entirely archaic (1981) and except for changes in the law have not been updated. We are a 268 unit community of mostly decent people but at the same time mostly apathetic. Getting a 75% vote to change anything is not impossible, but it's right next to impossible.

Per our documents the only things we can assess owners for over $1K is for damage they caused to the common area and in some cases limited common area, emergency maintenance, an insurance deductible that involves select owners, and legal fees for foreclosures etc. There may be a few other things I'm not thinking of but in general anything else is considered a "special assessment", which has a $1K limit per year.

It truly is binding. For example we have 49 town home buildings and 3 stacked unit buildings. The sidewalks/steps leading to the town home front doors are quite long and common area. However the concrete stoops at the front door are limited common area and the owner's responsibility for maintenance/replacement. Let's be real - the cost difference of replacing one single stoop vs several at a time is huge. Can the association contract with a concrete company to do several at once with the owners' agreement and charge each owner for their stoop? Nope, not if the stoop costs over $1K, and many of them would. Same with rear patios and decks.

I went off topic here but this is what caused me to ask the question.

šŸŽÆ You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • āœ“ Ask follow-up questions
  • āœ“ Share your experience
  • āœ“ Get expert advice
  • āœ“ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚔ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here