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AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:

Curious if anyone else has a term like this in your CCR's regarding amending. I've read a lot of precedence and case studies arguing validity of CCR amendments. Most all seem to make a verdict that "the CCR's allow themselves to be amended, and so any amendment made is valid," but I've never seen a case study that discusses a clause like this. From my interpretation, my CCR's seem to also say that any future amendment cannot be more restrictive or suddenly restrict something that was previously not restricted.

Anyone else have similar in your CCR's? Have you discussed and looked at this in relation to your HOA activity?

A quick and easy thought experiment example is rental restrictions. Yes, most HOA's can amend CCR's to add tight restrictions, but if there was this clause in your CCR's, I would think any attempt to further restrict renting would not be valid.

============================================
Effect of Amendment. Any amendment of this Master
Declaration approved in the manner specified above shall be binding on and
effective as to all Owners and their respective properties notwithstanding that
such Owners may not have voted for or consented to such amendment. Such
amendments may add to and increase the covenants, conditions, restrictions
and easements applicable to the Property but shall not prohibit or
unreasonably interfere with the allowed uses of such Owner's property which
existed prior to the said amendment.

================================================
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 03/10/2022 9:37 AM

Curious if anyone else has a term like this in your CCR's regarding amending. I've read a lot of precedence and case studies arguing validity of CCR amendments. Most all seem to make a verdict that "the CCR's allow themselves to be amended, and so any amendment made is valid," but I've never seen a case study that discusses a clause like this. From my interpretation, my CCR's seem to also say that any future amendment cannot be more restrictive or suddenly restrict something that was previously not restricted.

Anyone else have similar in your CCR's? Have you discussed and looked at this in relation to your HOA activity?

A quick and easy thought experiment example is rental restrictions. Yes, most HOA's can amend CCR's to add tight restrictions, but if there was this clause in your CCR's, I would think any attempt to further restrict renting would not be valid.

============================================
Effect of Amendment. Any amendment of this Master
Declaration approved in the manner specified above shall be binding on and
effective as to all Owners and their respective properties notwithstanding that
such Owners may not have voted for or consented to such amendment. Such
amendments may add to and increase the covenants, conditions, restrictions
and easements applicable to the Property but shall not prohibit or
unreasonably interfere with the allowed uses of such Owner's property which
existed prior to the said amendment.

================================================

To me this would not allow any rental restrictions not already in the Covenants unless less restrictive such as minimum rental period from 6 months to 3 months but not from 3 months to 6 months.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our CC&Rs don't have the phrase in bold. If they did, I assume we wouldn't be able to amend to forbid smoking, vaping, etc., anywhere on the promises including in our condo units. The original CC&Rs make no reference to smoking.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with Kerry. Laws change, society changes, and CC&Rs need to change along with them. We amended our CC&Rs a few years ago, and one of the amendments was more restrictive. In fact, our attorney was the one who suggested that particular amendment.

And if homeowners agree that it's in their best interests to live with greater restrictions, why should they be stopped from doing so? It affects no one but themselves, and the presence of the new restriction would be disclosed to prospective buyers who have the right to walk away.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/10/2022 11:05 AM
I agree with Kerry. Laws change, society changes, and CC&Rs need to change along with them. We amended our CC&Rs a few years ago, and one of the amendments was more restrictive. In fact, our attorney was the one who suggested that particular amendment.

And if homeowners agree that it's in their best interests to live with greater restrictions, why should they be stopped from doing so? It affects no one but themselves, and the presence of the new restriction would be disclosed to prospective buyers who have the right to walk away.

I'm not sure I understand what you say you agree to. Kerry's opinion is that the phrase in question prevents amendments from becoming more restrictive, yet you seem to dismiss this and think that amendments can become more restrictive in this situation.

A contract is a contract, and the contract has a statement in it that says more restrictive amendments cannot be created. I'm really not sure what you are trying to say, Cathy.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/10/2022 11:05 AM
I agree with Kerry. Laws change, society changes, and CC&Rs need to change along with them. We amended our CC&Rs a few years ago, and one of the amendments was more restrictive. In fact, our attorney was the one who suggested that particular amendment.

And if homeowners agree that it's in their best interests to live with greater restrictions, why should they be stopped from doing so? It affects no one but themselves, and the presence of the new restriction would be disclosed to prospective buyers who have the right to walk away.

Cathy
One thing often discussed on this chat is adding new restrictions. Some say to do so, one must get all (100%) to agree as it is changing the basis of the original "contract" between an owner and the association. Overall, I agree with this sentiment. That said, it might be possible to get 100% if the new restrictions did not apply to any of the present owners. Still no matter what I can not see 100% agreeing to anything. Think about it. All it would take is one no vote.

Some maintain such a "contract" change could also require the agreement of a mortgage holder.

The most common desired restrictions we see on this chat are adding rental restrictions where none existed.

FYI
Our Covenants say one cannot rent their unit during the first year of ownership.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/10/2022 11:17 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/10/2022 11:05 AM
I agree with Kerry. Laws change, society changes, and CC&Rs need to change along with them. We amended our CC&Rs a few years ago, and one of the amendments was more restrictive. In fact, our attorney was the one who suggested that particular amendment.

And if homeowners agree that it's in their best interests to live with greater restrictions, why should they be stopped from doing so? It affects no one but themselves, and the presence of the new restriction would be disclosed to prospective buyers who have the right to walk away.


Cathy
One thing often discussed on this chat is adding new restrictions. Some say to do so, one must get all (100%) to agree as it is changing the basis of the original "contract" between an owner and the association. Overall, I agree with this sentiment. That said, it might be possible to get 100% if the new restrictions did not apply to any of the present owners. Still no matter what I can not see 100% agreeing to anything. Think about it. All it would take is one no vote.

Some maintain such a "contract" change could also require the agreement of a mortgage holder.

The most common desired restrictions we see on this chat are adding rental restrictions where none existed.

FYI
Our Covenants say one cannot rent their unit during the first year of ownership.

I'm not sure what you mean, John. You may feel that and amendments should require 100%, but in reality, all of our Contracts, aka the CCR's, define the terms to make an Amendment, generally in the super-majority realm of 75%-90% vote.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've seen numerous court cases that throw out any Amendment that does not apply uniformly to all Members. You can't make a new restriction that only applies going forward to new buyers.

I've never read that the mortgage holder needs to agree to a CCR Amendment....Mortgage holders are just 1st position liens on your home. The bank doesn't own the home at all, and thus has no standing in a CCR contract dispute. It just gets 1st payout.

So I just want to refocus. I'm not asking or discussing whether amendments can happen or the theory of making them more restrictive. I'm asking specifically: My contract CCR has a term that says new restrictions can't be added. Does anyone else have this? And how does this play out if there's an attempt to amend the contract CCR's to make it more restrictive. From what I can tell, the contract is the contract that all parties agreed to. The contract says amendments can't be more restrictive. Take it or leave it. If the HOA busy bodies want a more restrictive CCR, then sell their house and move somewhere with a contract they agree to.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 03/10/2022 11:11 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/10/2022 11:05 AM
I agree with Kerry. Laws change, society changes, and CC&Rs need to change along with them. We amended our CC&Rs a few years ago, and one of the amendments was more restrictive. In fact, our attorney was the one who suggested that particular amendment.

And if homeowners agree that it's in their best interests to live with greater restrictions, why should they be stopped from doing so? It affects no one but themselves, and the presence of the new restriction would be disclosed to prospective buyers who have the right to walk away.


I'm not sure I understand what you say you agree to. Kerry's opinion is that the phrase in question prevents amendments from becoming more restrictive, yet you seem to dismiss this and think that amendments can become more restrictive in this situation.

A contract is a contract, and the contract has a statement in it that says more restrictive amendments cannot be created. I'm really not sure what you are trying to say, Cathy.

Kerry referred to prohibiting smoking in the common elements, a restriction that's becoming increasingly prevalent but older CC&Rs did not refer to smoking at all. (In fact some condominiums are prohibiting smoking inside buildings altogether.) This is a more restrictive amendment that's resulting from a change in our understanding of the dangers of smoking as well as from the association's need to deal with known unsafe conditions on the premises. If you have residents who are disabled due to respiratory conditions, you'll have a potential Fair Housing complaint on your hands if you don't address smoking indoors.

If the CC&Rs do in fact have a statement such as the one you quoted, I'd be interested to keep an eye on future developments. There is a natural built-in conflict between "free use of your property" and the limits on behavior that are necessary in communal living settings such as condos.

It's possible that your state laws lean more toward free use of property, and other states less so. But IMHO, "free use of property" includes the right to place additional limits if property owners decide at some point that these limits are justified.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/10/2022 11:52 AM

Kerry referred to prohibiting smoking in the common elements, a restriction that's becoming increasingly prevalent but older CC&Rs did not refer to smoking at all. (In fact some condominiums are prohibiting smoking inside buildings altogether.) This is a more restrictive amendment that's resulting from a change in our understanding of the dangers of smoking as well as from the association's need to deal with known unsafe conditions on the premises. If you have residents who are disabled due to respiratory conditions, you'll have a potential Fair Housing complaint on your hands if you don't address smoking indoors.

If the CC&Rs do in fact have a statement such as the one you quoted, I'd be interested to keep an eye on future developments. There is a natural built-in conflict between "free use of your property" and the limits on behavior that are necessary in communal living settings such as condos.

It's possible that your state laws lean more toward free use of property, and other states less so. But IMHO, "free use of property" includes the right to place additional limits if property owners decide at some point that these limits are justified.

Kerry said that he agrees that if a CCR has a term forbidding more restrictive amendments, than you are SOL if you want more restrictive amendments. So what are you agreeing with then? You agree with kerry's opinion or you agree that you can make more restrictive amendments in this situation?

I appreciate your concern for smoking, but as numerous case laws have stated, the contract is the contract that you signed. As long as it doesn't violate higher governing authorities, its perfectly OK. I'm deeply troubled that you seem to say in the same sentence that HOA's have a right to place limits on a property but then dismiss the contract that the HOA agreed to that prevents more restrictive amendments. Which is it? Do you agree that we all signed a contract and are bound by the terms of the contract or is it that you can do what ever you feel is justified?

For reference, here's a case from 2015 in Idaho that's cited a lot: Idaho Judge wrote in 2015 in the Greenfield v. Wurmlinger case, in short: "all doubts and ambiguities are to be resolved in favor of the free use of land...restrictions that are not clearly expressed will be resolved in the free use of land."

And then there's the nationwide Restatement Third, Property (Servitude) s6.7.
The Restatement is a compilation of case law nationwide. It summarizes trends in the courts and is regularly updated. Along with a summary, the Restatement cites specific case law, state by state, on each topic it treats. The Restatement has a section on "Common Interest Communities"

In the Restatement, go to Section 6.7 (3). There you will find, as a summary of the case law nationwide, verbiage like the following (or verbatim the following): "If the declaration grants a general power to adopt rules, the association also has the power to adopt reasonable rules designed to protect community members from unreasonable interference in the enjoyment of their individual units and the common property caused by use of other individually owned units. Absent specific authorization in the declaration, the association does not have the power to adopt rules, beyond what's stated above, that restrict the use or occupancy of, or behavior within, individually owned units. "
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 03/10/2022 9:37 AM

... snip...

============================================
Effect of Amendment. Any amendment of this Master
Declaration approved in the manner specified above shall be binding on and
effective as to all Owners and their respective properties notwithstanding that
such Owners may not have voted for or consented to such amendment. Such
amendments may add to and increase the covenants, conditions, restrictions
and easements applicable to the Property but shall not prohibit or
unreasonably interfere with the allowed uses of such Owner's property which
existed prior to the said amendment.

================================================

Adam,

Please clarify. Is the above a verbatim quote from an existing set of CC&Rs, or is it language of a proposed amendment or "thought experiment"?

If the former, then it is what it is and you're stuck with it. If the latter, I fail to see the wisdom of tying one's hands if doing so does not serve a particular purpose.

I'll note, only slightly snarkily, that this paragraph could validly be removed since doing so makes the CC&Rs less restrictive from the perspective of limiting the association's actions. Or is that a little too meta....?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 03/10/2022 9:37 AM

Curious if anyone else has a term like this in your CCR's regarding amending. I've read a lot of precedence and case studies arguing validity of CCR amendments. Most all seem to make a verdict that "the CCR's allow themselves to be amended, and so any amendment made is valid,"
A court may very well toss out an amendment that fails certain tests. This is so even when the developer is still running the HOA.

The clause you quoted is something new to me as well. Good to read that at least one other member (KerryL1) here has an HOA/COA with a clause like this.

Interesting.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
that is verbatim in my CCR's, in the section that dictates how Amendments are processed.

I like your snarky thought experiment, however, this entire section of the CCR's requires 95% vote to change.

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