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ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
Putting aside the fact that a Board may conduct business outside of a Board meeting if all Board members unanimously agree by email, do all Board decisions require an official meeting?

Let's say, the President and the Secretary are out having beers. Mr. President says, "That Mr. Treasurer. I think he's gotta go. And know what we can do."

Mr. President pulls out his copy of the By-Laws, which he always carries around with him, and quotes,

"3.02 Term of Office; Vacancies. The officers of the Association shall hold office until the
next organization meeting of the Board of Directors and until their successors are elected,
except in case of resignation, removal from office or death. The Board of Directors may remove
any officer at any time, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the directors then in office.
Any vacancy in any office may be filled by the Board of Directors."

"See?", says Mr. President. "It says we can remove an officer at any time. And there's no time like right now!"

"Sure!", says Mr. Secretary. "I'll let everyone know he's out. Let me grab my phone and email everyone."

What's the status of Mr. Treasurer?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
And the next move would be for the Members to remove the President and the Secretary. Game Over!
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By Aug on 03/08/2022 AM

Let's say, Director Quimby and Director Huggins are out having beers. Director Quimby says, "That Director Roguish. I think he's gotta go. And I know what we can do."

Director Quimby pulls out her copy of the By-Laws, which she always carries around with her, and quotes,

"3.02 Term of Office; Vacancies. The officers of the Association shall hold office until the
next organization meeting of the Board of Directors and until their successors are elected,
except in case of resignation, removal from office or death. The Board of Directors may remove
any officer at any time, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the directors then in office.
Any vacancy in any office may be filled by the Board of Directors."

"See?", says Director Quimby. "It says we can remove an officer at any time. And there's no time like right now!"

"Sure!", says Director Huggins. "I'll let everyone know Director Roguish is no longer the Treasurer. Let me grab my phone and email everyone."

What's the status of Director Roguish?
Roguish is still the treasurer.

The Board of Directors means the Board of Directors. If two directors have convened, without proper notice to all directors, then "the Board" has not convened.

Aside: When it comes to assumed or actual meetings of the Board, please do not interchange an "officer" with a "director."

Any other reading is a "strained" reading and defeats the long-respected purpose of notice.
ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 03/08/2022 6:44 AM
Posted By Aug on 03/08/2022 AM

Let's say, Director Quimby and Director Huggins are out having beers. Director Quimby says, "That Director Roguish. I think he's gotta go. And I know what we can do."

Director Quimby pulls out her copy of the By-Laws, which she always carries around with her, and quotes,

"3.02 Term of Office; Vacancies. The officers of the Association shall hold office until the
next organization meeting of the Board of Directors and until their successors are elected,
except in case of resignation, removal from office or death. The Board of Directors may remove
any officer at any time, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the directors then in office.
Any vacancy in any office may be filled by the Board of Directors."

"See?", says Director Quimby. "It says we can remove an officer at any time. And there's no time like right now!"

"Sure!", says Director Huggins. "I'll let everyone know Director Roguish is no longer the Treasurer. Let me grab my phone and email everyone."

What's the status of Director Roguish?
Roguish is still the treasurer.

The Board of Directors means the Board of Directors. If two directors have convened, without proper notice to all directors, then "the Board" has not convened.

Aside: When it comes to assumed or actual meetings of the Board, please do not interchange an "officer" with a "director."

Any other reading is a "strained" reading and defeats the long-respected purpose of notice.


Yes, that's a helpful way to emphasize the distinction.

So, when Director Huggins includes in his email to the Owners that Director Roguish is no longer the Treasurer, and that the Board is now looking for someone to fill the vacancy on the Board these two think they've just created, to what extent have Quimby and Huggins opened themselves to up to liability?

Wouldn't attempting to not only remove an officer by this method but also asserting to the Owners that a Board vacancy has been created, be something a bit more than simple unforced error? At what point could the Board decide to have the Association attorney take action for attempting this? Say, for instance, a new Board majority at the next Annual Meeting decides what went on deserves addressing.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
How many board members are specified in your governing documents and how many do you have?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasP13 on 03/08/2022 7:08 AM
when Director Huggins includes in his email to the Owners that Director Roguish is no longer the Treasurer, and that the Board is now looking for someone to fill the vacancy on the Board these two think they've just created, to what extent have Quimby and Huggins opened themselves to up to liability?

Wouldn't attempting to not only remove an officer by this method but also asserting to the Owners that a Board vacancy has been created, be something a bit more than simple unforced error? At what point could the Board decide to have the Association attorney take action for attempting this? Say, for instance, a new Board majority at the next Annual Meeting decides what went on deserves addressing.
I am going to change your query to: What if anything should Director Roguish do about his allegedly being removed as treasurer? Here are some options for Director Roguish:

-- Inform Directors Quimby and Huggins that the Board was not present at this meeting. The reason the Board was not present is because Roguish received no notice.

-- All of the directors should agree to meet as soon as possible, since whatever dispute is happening is likely not in the best interests of the corporation.

-- If Director Roguish has the authority to call the HOA attorney on his own, then Roguish needs to knock this off now. Why? Because the fact is a board majority is not happy with Roguish's behavior. Legally Roguish is on weak ground on any number of other matters and must not resist, in general, what a majority wants, as long as the majority is complying with the law.

-- As needed, recommend that all the directors meet at the same time with the HOA attorney to iron out some differences. Roguish has to try to be a stand-up, ethical, trying to be fair and trying to follow the law-and-covenants, guy about this.

I do advise keeping in mind that Director Roguish himself may have violated statutes, covenants and bylaws. I did have in mind your other thread. Not to rub it (my opinion from the other thread) in. Just to "keep things real" and present Director Huggins and Director Quimby's possible view of things. Quimby and Huggins may have valid concerns about Director Roguish's behavior as treasurer (or whatever officer position). The HOA attorney can be a good arbiter of such disputes. Hopefully the HOA attorney's interest is in following the covenants and statutes and simultaneously, acting in the corporation's best interests.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/08/2022 5:40 AM
And the next move would be for the Members to remove the President and the Secretary. Game Over!



What Max said. And read your documents to see what they say. As a practical matter, I prefer decisions being discussed in open meetings, so homeowners (if they bother to attend) can hear the conversation behind the decisions being made - they might not agree with the decision, but at least they understand why it was made and they can always suggest alternatives.

As you know from assorted conversations on this website, there really should be a limited number of reasons why a board should meet in an executive session, which is what I think you're talking about. Board member discipline could be one of those, but the session should be announced, as in "the board will go into executive session after the regular meeting," and then the board members can hash out what the treasurer did or not. If warranted, vote to remove the treasurer from that position, but not the board (only homeowners can vote out or recall him/her). Then you announce the results of the meeting.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Ohio allows board decisions via email or other method of communication (a.k.a. action in lieu of a meeting) as long as the board unanimously agrees. Presumably this is not possible in this case since Mr. Roguish would not agree.

Quote:

"(4)(a) A meeting of the board of directors may be held by any method of communication, including electronic or telephonic communication provided that each member of the board can hear, participate, and respond to every other member of the board.

(b) In lieu of conducting a meeting, the board of directors may take action with the unanimous written consent of the members of the board. Those written consents shall be filed with the minutes of the meetings of the board."

Ohio Revised Code Section 5311.08 | Unit owners association
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Cathy, for including that such a decision (w/out a meeting) must be filed with the next meeting's minutes with the written consents included.

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
According to your bylaws, the board can remove the treasurer, so that would require a meeting. Whether or not it would have to be a regular open meeting or could be an alternate form of meeting depends on your state law and governing documents.

In your scenario the president apparently had one too many and misread the bylaws. The president and secretary does not a board make. The only way that would work is if you have a three-person board and the president and secretary are both directors AND the third director had notice of the meeting so he or she could participate. That is assuming an executive session is allowed without any notice.
TerryG4 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Yes, in Fl
It isn't remotely practical, especially for a 'one issue vote'
so the trend seems to be the Directors DO make decisions via email and then at next meeting, place the issue on agenda as approved.
ONE Director cannot make a decision, it has to be the majority.
MANY Board members do not understand the legal guidelines in place

This scenario is interchanging 'Director' and 'Officer'
The Directors (who vote) appoint officers (who don't vote)
This doesn't say if Directors Huggins and Quimby are the 'majority' of the BOD.
There should be a properly noticed BOD meeting, where all Directors convene and majority vote to remove an 'officer.'
Many Directors are also officers, however, removing a treasurer takes a majority Board of Director's vote
Quimby may be removed as an 'Officer' but would still remain a Director.
Removing a Director has a whole new set of requirements, since they are elected by members.
The By Laws quoted pertained only to removal of an 'Officer.'

IF Directors Huggins and Quimby were the MAJORITY, they would have needed to post a properly noticed meeting LOCATION: O'Hara's BAR
just might get more people to show up!
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
TerryG4, I should have posted that Directors Quimby, Huggins and Roguish serve on a three-person board. This is consistent with the OP's board's number of directors (at present).
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
My HOA CCR's allow for Board and Committees to make decisions without a meeting, and that these decisions need to be recorded as part of the record of the Membership. We interpret this to mean an email 'quorum' in which all Directors are cc'd on an email topic. A topic is addressed and a question for decision is asked. Then all Directors respond back agree/disagreeing. If/when there's a Majority, we consider it a done deal.

At the next in person Board Meeting, we have a section that bullet point outlines all previous email discussion and decisions.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So, Adam, your state--Idaho--doesn't require unanimous consent for action without a meeting?
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/09/2022 3:44 PM
So, Adam, your state--Idaho--doesn't require unanimous consent for action without a meeting?

Action Without Meeting. Any action, which under the provisions
ofthe Idaho Nonprofit Corporation Act may be taken at a meeting ofthe Corporation,
may be taken without a meeting ifauthorized in writing signed by all ofthe Members
who would be entitled to vote at a meeting for such purpose, and filed with the
Secretary.

Action Without Meeting. The Directors shall have the right to
take any action in the absence of a meeting which they could take at a meeting by
obtaining the vote or written consent of all the Directors. Any action so approved
shall have the same effect as though taken.at a meeting of the Directors.
ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 03/09/2022 7:53 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/09/2022 3:44 PM
So, Adam, your state--Idaho--doesn't require unanimous consent for action without a meeting?


Action Without Meeting. Any action, which under the provisions
ofthe Idaho Nonprofit Corporation Act may be taken at a meeting ofthe Corporation,
may be taken without a meeting ifauthorized in writing signed by all ofthe Members
who would be entitled to vote at a meeting for such purpose, and filed with the
Secretary.

Action Without Meeting. The Directors shall have the right to
take any action in the absence of a meeting which they could take at a meeting by
obtaining the vote or written consent of all the Directors. Any action so approved
shall have the same effect as though taken.at a meeting of the Directors.


Looks like they do.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
so advice here? We have just been getting everyone on an email and everyone chimes in.

seems like we have the consent and vote of all directors. I'm not sure if you're going somewhere with this.
ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 03/09/2022 9:15 PM
so advice here? We have just been getting everyone on an email and everyone chimes in.

seems like we have the consent and vote of all directors. I'm not sure if you're going somewhere with this.

I read "written consent" to mean agreeing with the decision. Perhaps Idaho case law reads "written consent" to mean "I'm acknowledge I'm aware this is happening."
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 03/09/2022 7:53 PM

Action Without Meeting. Any action, which under the provisions
of the Idaho Nonprofit Corporation Act may be taken at a meeting of the Corporation,
may be taken without a meeting if authorized in writing signed by all of the Members
who would be entitled to vote at a meeting for such purpose, and filed with the
Secretary.

Action Without Meeting. The Directors shall have the right to
take any action in the absence of a meeting which they could take at a meeting by
obtaining the vote or written consent of all the Directors. Any action so approved
shall have the same effect as though taken.at a meeting of the Directors.
I interpret this to mean that the vote for the action need not be unanimous, but all Directors must weigh in with a "Yea," "Nay," abstention or recusal.

Like Thomas seems to be suggesting, I believe the wording does vary nationwide. Sometimes the vote to take the action (when not in a meeting) must be unanimous, else the vote is invalid.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
I've dealt with this issue a lot over the past 4 years.
In texas, anything outside of a meeting requires unanimous written consent. which we were told means every board member has to approve.

A previous board was changing significant decisions via text and email. To add insult to injury, they thought all they needed was a majority of the board to consent.

The lack of unanimous written consent is absolutely airtight in texas. That doesn't mean board members know the law. And a lot of board members do what they think is right, rather than follow the law. It's infuriating. Additionally, there is a list of things that can not be voted on outside of a duly called meeting. for condominiums in texas that means 5 days written notice.
The board may not, unless done in an open meeting for which prior notice was given to owners under Subsection (e), consider or vote on:

(1) fines;

(2) damage assessments;

(3) initiation of foreclosure actions;

(4) initiation of enforcement actions, excluding temporary restraining orders or violations involving a threat to health or safety;

(5) increases in assessments;

(6) levying of special assessments;

(7) appeals from a denial of architectural control approval;

(8) a suspension of a right of a particular owner before the owner has an opportunity to attend a board meeting to present the owner's position, including any defense, on the issue;

(9) lending or borrowing money;

(10) the adoption or amendment of a dedicatory instrument;

(11) the approval of an annual budget or the approval of an amendment of an annual budget that increases the budget by more than 10 percent;

(12) the sale or purchase of real property;

(13) the filling of a vacancy on the board;

(14) the construction of capital improvements other than the repair, replacement, or enhancement of existing capital improvements;  or

(15) the election of an officer.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
my bad, I forgot to add, outside of an emergency(that's another easily abused clause), A texas condominium board must send notice to all board members with 5 days notice.

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