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PqC (Texas)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Greetings,

My HOA just had an election for a couple of Board positions. Our bylaws specifically state that anyone who has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude cannot serve on the Board. I took it upon myself to run background checks on the candidates running for office, but I didn't do so until after the election. Come to find out, one of new Board members has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude.

Also recently, an existing Board member resigned because he put his home up for sale. The bylaws say that the existing Board will appoint someone to fill the vacancy. This was done and that individual has a DUI conviction, which seems to be considered a crime of moral turpitude in some jurisdictions, but not all.

My question is -- what can be done at this point? I'm of the mindset that people make mistakes and shouldn't be punished over and over for the same mistakes, but I'm also concerned that there is a correlation been those convicted of crimes and embezzling from an HOA.

I really don't know if I should just keep quiet and not say anything. If I do that and the Association gets ripped off, I would feel somewhat responsible for not trying to have the rules set forth in our bylaws upheld. If I do try to raise this issue, who do I go to? I don't know where to even start.

I would appreciate any advice you might be able to offer!

Many thanks,

PqC

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Convicted and time served then they are welcome back to society.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Moral turpitude is more of a legal term, and the word moral is subjective because people have different definitions of what that means (and then you have the people who don't seem to have any). That can get messy - for every person you may find who did do something awful like murder, you may wind up with 20 deemed ineligible because of something they did years ago, but learned from that And have lived honorable lives since. What do you do about the people who were unfairly convicted - that happens more frequently than you realize.

Convictions are one thing, but that doesn't mean someone's who's never been to jail is a wonderful person. Board member #1 may be surfing the dark web looking for kiddie porn. And board member #3 heaps emotional abuse on her kids every day? That may never come to light, and in fact, people may find excuses to ignore it (well, at least assessments haven't risen under them).

And why stop with board members? They're also homeowners, so maybe we should run background checks on everyone who lives in that community to ensure no one with that background would ever run for the board because they wouldn't live there. Let's start with you - do YOU have anything you'd like to share with the class?

it would be easier to amend that CCR to state something like persons who've been convicted of a felony in the last five years or so may not serve on the board. This way you can point to specific acts.

Until then, make sure your association has the necessary checks and balances to reduce the risk of embezzlement and fraud. You might also want to rethink running background checks on people if they haven't given you cause to do so. Wait to see what they DO - if they're nasty people, that has a way of coming out, no matter how they try to hide it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Did the crime rise (fall?) to a level of a felony? In which case, be careful. There is an increasing push in this country to ensure the rights of felons after they've done their time, so discrimination against them may well become illegal at some point.

That said, serving on an HOA board is a different matter since directors serve at the pleasure of homeowners, and homeowners can decide not to vote for candidates simply because they don't like their haircuts or something equally silly.

On the third hand, I personally would be less bothered by "moral turpitude" (unless it involved something like pedophilia) than I would be by white collar crimes involving money, especially in an HOA that is self-managed. Even so, anything that causes me to question a candidate's judgement would be enough to make me vote for someone else.

What can you do after the person is already elected? The normal mechanism is a recall election, but that can take a good deal of effort and requires cooperation from the membership. At this point, I'd also wait and see what the person does - attend board meetings, read the meeting minutes, pay close attention to the monthly financials (especially if your community is self-managed), etc. etc. Also figure out the steps needed for a recall election in your HOA and state, and prepare as much as you can should this become necessary.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am amazed after some Board meetings more people do not walk away without being convicted of a crime... DUI is subjective. Many people still have jobs who have had DUI's. If their employers still accept them then why should a HOA reject them?

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I thought drinking in Texas was a moral obligation.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I know it was tradition after our meetings to come home and take a shot... Good thing we could just walk home.

Think it is a bit much to do background checks unless the person has check signing rights. Otherwise they just have one board vote. There still others to vote.

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PqC on 03/08/2022 3:47 AM
Our bylaws specifically state that anyone who has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude cannot serve on the Board. I took it upon myself to run background checks on the candidates running for office, but I didn't do so until after the election. Come to find out, one of new Board members has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude.

Also recently, an existing Board member resigned because he put his home up for sale. The bylaws say that the existing Board will appoint someone to fill the vacancy. This was done and that individual has a DUI conviction, which seems to be considered a crime of moral turpitude in some jurisdictions, but not all.
If there is not consensus on DUI being a crime of moral turpitude where you are, I would leave this one be.

I think you should consider naming the crime for the other director and letting the forum here opine on whether you have this right. Alternatively, if there's no doubt that the other director committed a crime involving moral turpitude, then you should report it to the board, even if you have to do so anonymously. It's a risk to the HOA. The insurer may have something to say about this. Fidelity bonds may be required but this is not possible, on account of the criminal past of this one director. And so on.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/08/2022 5:42 AM
I thought drinking in Texas was a moral obligation.



Considering what's been going on in that state lately, it may be more of a survival tactic!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PqC on 03/08/2022 3:47 AM
Greetings,

My HOA just had an election for a couple of Board positions. Our bylaws specifically state that anyone who has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude cannot serve on the Board. I took it upon myself to run background checks on the candidates running for office, but I didn't do so until after the election. Come to find out, one of new Board members has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude.

Also recently, an existing Board member resigned because he put his home up for sale. The bylaws say that the existing Board will appoint someone to fill the vacancy. This was done and that individual has a DUI conviction, which seems to be considered a crime of moral turpitude in some jurisdictions, but not all.

My question is -- what can be done at this point? I'm of the mindset that people make mistakes and shouldn't be punished over and over for the same mistakes, but I'm also concerned that there is a correlation been those convicted of crimes and embezzling from an HOA.

I really don't know if I should just keep quiet and not say anything. If I do that and the Association gets ripped off, I would feel somewhat responsible for not trying to have the rules set forth in our bylaws upheld. If I do try to raise this issue, who do I go to? I don't know where to even start.

I would appreciate any advice you might be able to offer!

Many thanks,

PqC


I'm curious what possessed you to take it upon yourself to run a background check on the board members. You paid money for this? And you are certain the board member has a conviction - it isn't someone with the same name? How long ago was the conviction? Do you know the full details of the arrest? There's some nuance between blowing a .08 after rolling through a stop sign and blowing a .25 after careening wrong way down the highway and crashing into a barrier.

I don't have much respect for drunk drivers, but I don't see the direct line between a drunk driving conviction and embezzlement. I don't think Bernie Madoff had any drunk driving convictions, did he?

Anyway, embezzlement only happens if a lot of people aren't paying attention. If you have a management company, they are going to be handling the day to day operations and bills, not the board members. That said, management companies have been the source of embezzlement too, and even if you run background checks on all the management company employees, you're not in a position to demand that their employees be fired.

Any homeowner concerned about the possibility of embezzlement should review their association's financials each month and pay attention to what is going on in their community. If the financials say $20,000 was spent on repairs, and you don't see any evidence of repairs, start asking questions.

As for what to do with the information you have... what is the outcome you want? Do you want them off the board?

If you do intend to use this info to get them off the board, I would strongly encourage talking to the board in private (request an exec session meeting) rather then publicly distribute this info.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It should be noted that a HOA is not one you provide social security number to. It is not required. So the type of background check would have to be on the criminal side. A financial one would be out of bounds.

My old apartment had us fill out a criminal check form. It only applied to the county moving into. Had to get sheriff department to sign off. However that did not mean I was not a criminal in other counties or states. Just clean in that county.

It is more concerning about the people who have not been caught than has. Seems more people take action against the convicted than those whom need convicted.

Former HOA President
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PqC on 03/08/2022 3:47 AM
Greetings,

My HOA just had an election for a couple of Board positions. Our bylaws specifically state that anyone who has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude cannot serve on the Board. I took it upon myself to run background checks on the candidates running for office, but I didn't do so until after the election. Come to find out, one of new Board members has been convicted of a crime of moral turpitude.

Also recently, an existing Board member resigned because he put his home up for sale. The bylaws say that the existing Board will appoint someone to fill the vacancy. This was done and that individual has a DUI conviction, which seems to be considered a crime of moral turpitude in some jurisdictions, but not all.

My question is -- what can be done at this point? I'm of the mindset that people make mistakes and shouldn't be punished over and over for the same mistakes, but I'm also concerned that there is a correlation been those convicted of crimes and embezzling from an HOA.

I really don't know if I should just keep quiet and not say anything. If I do that and the Association gets ripped off, I would feel somewhat responsible for not trying to have the rules set forth in our bylaws upheld. If I do try to raise this issue, who do I go to? I don't know where to even start.

I would appreciate any advice you might be able to offer!

Many thanks,

PqC


I do not know if DUI is an act of moral turpitude, but if it or if this conviction was a felony, and the conviction is less than 20 years ago with evidence from a government database, then as soon as the Board is informed, that person is no longer a Board member per Texas law:

https://law.onecle.com/texas/property/209.00591.html

Texas Property Code ยง 209.00591 Board Membership section (b)

(b) If a board is presented with written, documented evidence from a database or other record maintained by a governmental law enforcement authority that a board member was convicted of a felony or crime involving moral turpitude not more than 20 years before the date the board is presented with the evidence, the board member is immediately ineligible to serve on the board of the property owners' association, automatically considered removed from the board, and prohibited from future service on the board.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
PqC,

Per this article from a TX attorney site, href="https://versustexas.com/blog/crimes-of-moral-turpitude-texas/">What Are Crimes of Moral Turpitude in Texas?, a DWI is not a crime of moral turpitude.

It may be considered immoral to you.
It appears that it is not considered immoral to the State.

Hence, the board should follow the States opinion.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Posting again to correct the link:

PqC,

Per this article from a TX attorney site, What Are Crimes of Moral Turpitude in Texas?, a DWI is not a crime of moral turpitude.

It may be considered immoral to you.
It appears that it is not considered immoral to the State.

Hence, the board should follow the States opinion.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Moral turpitude is a broad brush. i worked with a guy that has a felony conviction. He was in a scuffle with anther guy that was drinking at a bar so he pulled the guys jacket over his head and money
fell out of his pockets. No money was stolen, but the DA charged him with a felony none the less because the other guy has just won a jackpot on a slot machine.
Not all defendants are equally changed and not all defendants have the capital to fight overzealous prosecutors that are out to get convictions instead of justice.

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/08/2022 1:36 PM
Posting again to correct the link:

PqC,

Per this article from a TX attorney site, What Are Crimes of Moral Turpitude in Texas?, a DWI is not a crime of moral turpitude.

It may be considered immoral to you.
It appears that it is not considered immoral to the State.

Hence, the board should follow the States opinion.

The board member who committed and crime of moral turpitude and the board member with the DWI are two different people, if I am reading the OP correctly.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
With all due respect to everyone who thinks all is forgiven once you serve your time, that is not what the OPs bylaws or the state law say. If someone has been convicted of a felony or crime of moral turpitude, they cannot serve on an HOA board (with some caveats under the state law).

I would consult an attorney on this one. Online criminal histories generally use name and dates of birth only. I was in law enforcement for 20 years and histories based on name and dates or birth are not reliable. That is probably why, under the Texas law, it specifically requires "written evidence from a law-enforcement database." On the DUI, I would not worry about it since DUI is not clearly a crime of moral turpitude.

You could bring it up to the board. If the person admits to a felony conviction, then you are probably on solid legal ground to remove them summarily.
PennyO1 (Texas)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Notice of Suspension of Volunteer Service on a home owner (for reasons of Moral Turpitude) who has Passed a Criminal Background Check, never been charged or convicted of any crime. Any help on understanding this action by a Board of Directors?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PennyO1 on 11/17/2023 6:58 PM
Notice of Suspension of Volunteer Service on a home owner (for reasons of Moral Turpitude) who has Passed a Criminal Background Check, never been charged or convicted of any crime. Any help on understanding this action by a Board of Directors?

This is an old thread. You may get more answers if you start a new thread. (My only comment is that committees and other volunteers are typically appointed by the board, serve at the board's pleasure, and can be removed from their positions with or without cause. So the board was within its rights to take such an action, although I don't think that I'd have gotten into reasons behind it. "Thank you for your service" is enough.)

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PennyO1 on 11/17/2023 6:58 PM
Notice of Suspension of Volunteer Service on a home owner (for reasons of Moral Turpitude) who has Passed a Criminal Background Check, never been charged or convicted of any crime. Any help on understanding this action by a Board of Directors?
Please start a new thread. Please respond to the following and all other questions that readers here ask:

Is this a condominium? Is this a subdivision of single family homes? Do you know which statutes apply?

Is this association located in Pennsylvania?

Is this association incorporated?

What year was the association first established?

Some state statutes have restrictions on HOA/COA directors who have committed certain crimes. If you respond to the above questions.

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