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DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Our HOA is in the midst of a vote to update our governing documents. Due to widespread apathy barely half of the members have voted. The Board of Directors has extended the voting deadline several times. Still, very few votes were added. Finally, the Board decided to "target" members who have not voted and a list was developed (presumably by our management company) to contact members who have not voted. Those members received a solicitation in the mail to vote. Still, in the month since letters were sent relatively few votes were cast Then, in the span of 5 days just before our most recent Board meeting, more than 50 votes were received. My concern is that the list of members who have not voted were contacted directly and in person to get them to vote. Is this legal? Our governing documents require that voting be done by secret ballot. If they know who has and hasn't voted, doesn't that void this vote. Thanks for any insight anyone can provided!
ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
When you vote for your government officials, don't you cast a secret ballot? Does your county Board of Elections know whether you've voted or not? Does their knowledge of that status void the ballot you cast?

Spending money on getting apathetic people to participate may not be the best use of HOA funds, but that's up to the Board to decide.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Yes, Yes, No to your questions. However, once voting has started, voters who have not submitted a ballot are not contacted. My concern is that the list of members who have not voted was used to selectively contacted if there was any reason to believe they might vote a certain way. Specifically, the changes proposed to our governing documents would financially benefit some members over others. The previous Board president pushed these changes through after disbanding the ad hoc committee appointed to suggest changes. The fact that there were so few votes cast and then an avalanche of votes in a few days is very suspicious. Maybe I'm paranoid, but the whole process has been characterized by secrecy and behind-the-scenes decisions.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Actually in political races, a candidate's campaign will go to individual polling places to see a list of all voters and checkmarks of who have voted to contacts those persons to vote.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidB44 on 03/07/2022 7:12 AM
Our HOA is in the midst of a vote to update our governing documents. Due to widespread apathy barely half of the members have voted. The Board of Directors has extended the voting deadline several times. Still, very few votes were added. Finally, the Board decided to "target" members who have not voted and a list was developed (presumably by our management company) to contact members who have not voted. Those members received a solicitation in the mail to vote. Still, in the month since letters were sent relatively few votes were cast Then, in the span of 5 days just before our most recent Board meeting, more than 50 votes were received. My concern is that the list of members who have not voted were contacted directly and in person to get them to vote. Is this legal? Our governing documents require that voting be done by secret ballot. If they know who has and hasn't voted, doesn't that void this vote. Thanks for any insight anyone can provided!
You ought to review California's new statutory election requirements. Use Davis-stirling.com. Then as needed write a letter to the board, emphasizing the election transparency requirements from the statute.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Contacting people and asking them to vote is quite acceptable.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Any owner in a CA HOA may inspect the list of who's voted via written request to the PM (or board if no PM) Any owner, including a director, may, at their own expense, send letters or otherwise contact owners who have not voted and ask them to vote to approve the new CC&Rs.

Because no one reviewing the voter list knows which way they voted, members' votes ARE secret.

The board of directors may not use HOA resources to advocate for a yes vote. So, the PM may not send out materials to those owners asking that they vote yes. The PM may not put flyers under owners doors advocating a yes vote.

The PM may send out notices or emails to the non-voters asking they vote, but may not advocate for approval of the restatement. IF the PM DOES send out a plea for a yes votes, any Owner opposed to the changes may have the PM send out their recommendation for a no vote.

So, David, who contacted the non-voters and by what method???

Our HOA sent secret ballots out to restate our CC&Rs & Bylaws a month ago. This week, board members are individually contacting Owners who have not voted to seek a yes vote. The directors must use their own funds if mailing to absentee owners (about 25% of all owners) and their own labor to put notes or flyers under condo unit doors.

Two Town Halls were held and a complete redline version sent to owners late last year. Since our owner restatements involve no change in assessment calculations or who is assessed for what, we are not Thomas' HOA.

For more, Thomas, vist Davis-stirling.com, Index, Elections
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
When we voted on amendments, our PM kept track of the unit numbers from which we'd received a response. Non-responders received an additional mailing or two as needed, as did new residents. Overall the voting lasted two to three months.

You almost have to do something like this because the final vote counts could be very close. You don't have the luxury of ignoring those who didn't respond the first time since their votes could determine the final outcome.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Targeting is a strong word to use when you have passionate owners that want to amend the governing documents. Are they just being diligent?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
It is acceptable for the Association, or its Board to use association resources to campaign as long as those in opposition to such measures are afforded equal access. Where association resources can't be used is in Board elections and advocating for the defeat of a particular candidate or candidates.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Yes, "target" is a strong word. It was used by the general manager to describe the list they were about to generate. I don't know who generated the list. It was either the general manager or the third-party firm who is collecting the ballots.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Yes, "target" is a strong word. It was used by the general manager to describe how they were going to go about generating the list of members who have not voted. I don't know who actually generated the list. It was either the general manager or the third-party firm who is collecting and storing the cast ballots.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
I appreciate all the replies and suggestions. Looks like it's pretty OK for the list of non-voters to be made and even distributed on written request. I'll admit I'm pretty surprised and concerned that the vote on our governing documents is going to represent the will of the minority in the community who will financially benefit from a few changes. From what I gather on the Davis-Stirling website, the outcome can be challenged within a year of the final results being revealed.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/07/2022 9:34 AM
When we voted on amendments, our PM kept track of the unit numbers from which we'd received a response. Non-responders received an additional mailing or two as needed, as did new residents. Overall the voting lasted two to three months.
Ditto for the two attempts my former HOA made to amend the governing documents starting in 2019.

For the first attempt, the board extended the voting period by a few months and, per a HOA announcement, also started "rewarding" owners who had voted with a $25 rebate of their assessment. Quorum was met easily. The amendment did not pass.

A year or so went by, and then the Board tried again. For the second attempt, the board again extended the voting period. More folks voted. Quorum was again met easily. The amendment still did not pass.

The board consists of three directors.

Two long-sitting directors are now gone. The third (and most competent IMO) long-sitting director remains. Two completely new faces now sit with him on the board. They want to try one more time. I think the new board would do well to find out which Declaration and Bylaw sections for which changes have been proposed are objectionable. My bet is the change from one-year terms to staggered terms has turned owners off. Darn near everything else proposed are boilerplate- and cosmetic-type changes, related to the Declarant having been gone for over ten years.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The question, David, is WHO sent out the plea to vote yes to Owners. If it was the PM or the inspectors of election firm, HOA resources were used. This means, as Max & I have pointed out, that you may ask that a letter from you to owners who haven't voted be set out ALSO using your HOA's resources, e.g., clerical work to address the envelopes by your PM or Inspectors vendor, copies of your letter, cost of postage.

All you need to do is to write your argument.

IF the letters asking for yes votes were sent out by individual directors using their own funds & labor, as ours are doing here, you also can do the same if you want to do the work & spend some money. To challenge the election results during the year following the election would be much more difficult. Campaign now.

Sorry for using the wrong name, David, in my earlier post : (
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Thanks! Good advice...bad timing! The BoD plans to open the ballots on Wednesday this week.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So, David, it might be reassuring to attend the ballot-counting meeting, which can be a board meeting--doesn't have to be a members meeting. But it will not be the board members who open the ballots, it will--or SHOULD be-- the inspector(s) of election firm that your board hired.

Just make sure you attend and observe (allowed in CA) the outside envelope being opened, the inside envelope with the ballot in it being opened, and an inspector recording the vote. will you HOA attorney be in attendance?

I don't think it's surprising that so many ballots came in so late. In my condo HOA, Owners are really slow to even sign up to attend our social committee's events and to vote for directors.

Last Friday, out monthly newsletter went out with our President's Message urging Owners to vote. Period--not "vote yes." Our PM sent an email to all owners urging them to vote. Period. She posted a message on our website's home page with the same message. Six directors started "reaching out" (as they say) to an assignment of voters using their own labor & funds. In our HOA of 200+, I wouldn't be surprised if we see 40 or more votes come in this week.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
David! there is no minority benefiting from this voted on rules change, you need 2/3rds majority about 75% to agree to the change. That is a Majority.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Let us know how the tabulation meeting turns out, David.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
Actually, our governing documents show that 50% + 1 of eligible voters is all that's needed for an amendment to pass. As for a minority benefiting...that's true if there is no bias imposed on those who vote. However, taking this case for an example, if someone used the list of members who have not voted and selected those who were more likely to vote one or another, a minority of all voters could prevail. What I'm saying is that if the true sentiment of the membership is to veto an amendment, extra pressure on those who favor the amendment to vote could out perform those who are against. I don't know if that happened here or not.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
OK
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I cannot imagine it would be illegal. Calling members to encourage them to vote, especially when it requires a majority or super majority to pass, is a good idea. Secret ballot means you do not know how someone votes. I am not sure how someone could vote in secret when it is necessary to verify their vote is cast by a member.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Whoa, David I just noticed that you didn't write which "governing documents" were being amended. Which one or ones. While common for 50% + 1 of all voters is needed to an handed Bylaws, often, perhaps, usually, a larger %--67; 75-- is needed to amend the CC&Rs.

Please quote e the exact words from the documents that your ballots offer to be amended. % required to amend is usually near the back.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
CC&Rs and Bylaws are being amended. From the CC&Rs: "this Declaration shall be approved by the vote or assent by written ballot of an Absolute Majority". From definitions: '"Absolute Majority" shall mean a majority of the Total Voting Power of the Association.'

The By-laws document has very similar language.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thank you, David.
DavidB44 (California)
Posts: 14
Posted:
For those interested...the CC&R and By-law revisions passed. It had been so long since I'd seen the ballot that I'd forgotten that the two controversial amendments that would have favored some owners over others, were separated out as individual items on which to vote and they both failed. I appreciate the suggestions and guidance I received on this forum...thanks!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Well, sounds like happy ending.

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