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WalterH3 (Oregon)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our HOA (all single family private properties) has a policy restricting yard signs. Lately people have been putting signs in their windows or at their front door, like the "We Believe" signs. To this point the majority opinion on the committee is that we've not interpreted those as being yard signs because they are not in the yard and small enough so that they can't be read from the street. I was wondering if anyone has restrictions on yard signs but still allows house signs?

A restriction on all signage, yard or house, could lead to not allowing "No Solicitor" signs or athletic pennants in the windows...or even "Welcome."
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please cite the exact wording of your HOA's "policy." Is it actually a CC&R section or Rule & Regulation?

It seems to me that if the rule specifically says no only to yard signs, the HOA cannot arbitrarily include the windows of the home, the front door or even a front porch if they exist.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please cite the exact wording of your HOA's "policy." Is it actually a CC&R section or Rule & Regulation?

It seems to me that if the rule specifically says no only to yard signs, the HOA cannot arbitrarily include the windows of the home, the front door or even a front porch if they exist.

WalterH3 (Oregon)
Posts: 4
Posted:
It is a policy which reads (see below). The majority vote on the committee was to not cite the sign at the front door as a violation. Sounds like you would agree.
................

Yard Sign Policy (Adopted 5/09, Modified 2/11)
Traditionally certain yard signs have been accepted during a limited time frame.
The following policy clarifies and defines what signs will be accepted:

ļ‚· One professional sign of not more than five-foot square advertising the
property for sale or rent.

ļ‚· A Developer may post one sign during the construction or remodeling
stage on a property.

ļ‚· Garage, Estate or Yard sale signs for members will be limited to two
signs. These signs will be posted only on the day of the sale. The
signs will not exceed the five square foot model.

ļ‚· Political signs are limited to only two signs whether it’s for a candidate
or a measure. The signs are allowed for up to three weeks prior to
Election Day. Signs must be removed the day after the election.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'd say "the Committee" is correct. There apparently is. no policy or rule against p[osting things on your fronts doors I or in the windows of your homes.

Wait, who's responsible for maintaining the exterior of the front doors? In OR, may committees call alleged violators to hearings and level fines or other penalties?

Our high rise condo has only balconies as "front yards"; they're exclusive use (limited use) common area and the only sign banner or flag that can be posted is that of the official USA flag.

We may post non-commercial signs/banners/flags in our unit windows not to exceed 4' x 4' that must b removed at the close of escrow or when a tenant moves in. The permitted size is so small that only units close to the ground bother with the signs.

I posted some large blue fabric & some yellow fabric rectangles in a window yesterday that exceeds the permitted size of banners. I do not think I'll be cited.
WalterH3 (Oregon)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our HOA consists of private homes on private lots. All maintenance on the private lots, including front doors, is the owner's responsibility. The HOAi in its covenants, has use restrictions on the private lots that allow the Board to create regulations such as a sign policy.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WalterH3 on 02/27/2022 2:48 PM
It is a policy which reads (see below). The majority vote on the committee was to not cite the sign at the front door as a violation. Sounds like you would agree.
................

Yard Sign Policy (Adopted 5/09, Modified 2/11)
Traditionally certain yard signs have been accepted during a limited time frame.
The following policy clarifies and defines what signs will be accepted:
[snippage]
WalterH3, can you please quote verbatim the covenant on which this "policy" is based?

For the archives, unless the covenant directly supports this "policy," then the committee or HOA Board has overstepped its bounds.

In other words, HOA Boards and HOA committees cannot lawfully create rules that do not have a basis in the Declaration (a.k.a. "the CCRs").
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Do your CC&Rs address signage at all, other than allowing the board to create policies? Check in the Restrictions section of your CC&Rs, since that's usually where you find a signage restriction.

FWIW, in my condo community, one For Sale or For Rent sign is permitted in the mulched area in front of the building, and that's it. Stuff placed in the window and other signs/decorative flags are prohibited. But we're condos, so anything outside of the units is common area and does not belong to the unit owners individually - I'd expect our rules and restrictions to be more strict since the stuff interferes with maintenance.

Also FWIW, I've noticed a tendency in the last several years for people to treat their yards as their personal social media accounts. The decorative stuff seems to metastasize, and the community starts to look junky and "down market". And I personally worry about the signs that schools provide to acknowledge students' achievements (I refer to these as the "hello, pedophiles" signs). At any rate, some people believe that associations should support property values, although this is open to debate - but all the decorative stuff actually does the opposite.
ArleeZ (New York)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Our apartment complex has no rules about signage.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
We ran into issues with signs and flags the last election year, so we changed our rules. No signs except small real estate for sale signs (exact measurements and typography laid out in rules) and have very specific restrictions that signs cannot be on the house or in the windows if in view of the street. This is in our rules and regulations document. In Florida, you have to allow certain flags (Us, state, some military) by statute so of course we allow those, but nothing, sign or flag, with a political message. You can have the little yard flags but again no political messages. It's probably our toughest rule and believe it or not, we get pushback for allowing (not disallowing) little yard signs asking neighbors not to allow their dog to poop on their yard. The busybodies on one particular street come to almost every board meeting despite being told we made an exception for these signs. Now we have some Ukrainian flags that we are going to ask to remove because although everyone supports Ukraine, is there any difference between Ukrainian flag, BLM flag, or thin blue line flag?

I believe there are some states you cannot have these restrictions so you may want to check your state statutes.
MarkR21 (North Carolina)
Posts: 710
Posted:
So glad our state forced hoas to allow signs through planned community act.
Sounds like a bunch of wanna be dictators that don’t allow free speech reading these comments above

And to answer the ops question house signs are fine don’t fine people for their constitutional rights
1st amendment!!!
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The first amendment protects you from being prosecuted *by the government* for what you say. Private entities can and do restrict speech. And while the first amendment protects what you say, it doesn't guarantee you a platform from which to spout.

With HOAs and COAs, the rules can be different because in condo communities the entire exterior is common elements and not owned by any one individual.

The condo association can make rules about the kind of signage can appear in "your" front yard because it isn't "yours". And you have the practical issue of signage interfering with the lawn crew's ability to do their work - in an HOA that doesn't provide lawn care, if you want to make it difficult to cut your own grass, then be my guest.

Finally, with condos you're dealing with housing density, so the sheer number of signs per square foot matters if you care about aesthetics. Our condo board has apparently stopped enforcing any kind of signage rules, and the place is starting to look junky - it certainly doesn't scream "upscale". (If you think that's arbitrary, take a look at model homes and see how many decorative signs and flags they have. Few to none. Not only does the stuff get in the way and need to be maintained, home sellers know that for every person who thinks "that's cute", another person will think "ugh" - why risk turning off buyers? And nowadays, a lot of people are vehemently turned off by a lot of stuff.)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
From our Covenants:
Section 4. Signs. No sign of any kind shall be erected by an Owner or Occupant within the Community without the prior written consent of the ACC except (a) professional security signs consistent with the Community-Wide Standard* (b) any signs required by legal proceedings, (c) reasonable and appropriate signs erected by the Board, (d) builder marketing signs, and (e) signs erected by Declarant. In connection with a bona-fide offer to sell or lease a Lot or residence, one (1) professionally lettered "For Sale" or "For Rent" sign consistent with the Community-Wide Standard shall be permitted provided the sign has a maximum area of six (6) square feet and a maximum height of four (4) feet above
ground level, and (ii) the content of the sign states only that the Lot or residence is "For Sale" or "For Rent" and the name and telephone number of the person to contact for additional information. "For Sale" or "For Rent" signs including any additional information shall not be permitted in the Community. Notwithstanding anything provided herein to the contrary, no sign shall be displayed on or from within any structure on a Lot.

MarkR21 (North Carolina)
Posts: 710
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 06/30/2022 5:13 AM
The first amendment protects you from being prosecuted *by the government* for what you say. Private entities can and do restrict speech. And while the first amendment protects what you say, it doesn't guarantee you a platform from which to spout.

With HOAs and COAs, the rules can be different because in condo communities the entire exterior is common elements and not owned by any one individual.

The condo association can make rules about the kind of signage can appear in "your" front yard because it isn't "yours". And you have the practical issue of signage interfering with the lawn crew's ability to do their work - in an HOA that doesn't provide lawn care, if you want to make it difficult to cut your own grass, then be my guest.

Finally, with condos you're dealing with housing density, so the sheer number of signs per square foot matters if you care about aesthetics. Our condo board has apparently stopped enforcing any kind of signage rules, and the place is starting to look junky - it certainly doesn't scream "upscale". (If you think that's arbitrary, take a look at model homes and see how many decorative signs and flags they have. Few to none. Not only does the stuff get in the way and need to be maintained, home sellers know that for every person who thinks "that's cute", another person will think "ugh" - why risk turning off buyers? And nowadays, a lot of people are vehemently turned off by a lot of stuff.)

Because everyone knows attractiveness is not what makes homebuying and home prices rise
Its the economy !!!

our HOA has been incredibly slack enforcing violations during Covid and guess what house selling prices have never ever been higher by a long shot

so don’t make up some fake logic about attractiveness increasing value
M

it pales in comparison to the general economy which is the real reason housing prices rise or fall
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkR21 on 06/30/2022 9:35 AM
... snip ...

our HOA has been incredibly slack enforcing violations during Covid and guess what house selling prices have never ever been higher by a long shot

so don’t make up some fake logic about attractiveness increasing value
M

it pales in comparison to the general economy which is the real reason housing prices rise or fall

Of course any correlation between "attractiveness" and sales price is currently swamped by the hot housing market.

However, there is a reason that people who are in business of selling homes tell sellers to clean up their property. Ever heard of "curb appeal"?

I also work for a new home builder in the sales/marketing area. Builders decorate their model and spec homes in a certain way for a reason, and that's to maximize selling price. They don't waste time or money on stuff that doesn't contribute to the bottom line. Not if they're smart, anyway.

You can choose to believe this or not.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Anyone who believes their First Amendment rights are being violated by their HOA for not letting them put signs in their yard should not be living in an HOA and doesn't understand how HOAs work.

I understand that some states do not allow HOAs to regulate signs. In some states they do. Here's an excerpt from a recent article by one of Florida's largest HOA attornies. I think it explains the situation very well:

Some owners maintain that their constitutional rights are being trampled if their association denies them the right to install a political sign or political flag. In fact, you need a state actor to be the entity violating one’s First Amendment rights in order to mount a sound constitutional argument. In Florida, condos and HOAs have not been found to be state actors so prohibiting political signs and political flags is possible either through a recorded covenant or a board rule if the board has rule-making authority under the governing documents. In the case of Quail Creek Prop. Owners Association, Inc. v. Hunter, 538 So. 2d 1288, 1289 (Fla. 2nd DCA 1989), the Second District Court of Appeal found that an association’s sign restriction was not unconstitutional as ā€œneither the recording of the protective covenant in the public records, nor the possible enforcement of the covenant in the courts of the state, constitutes sufficient ā€œstate actionā€ to render the parties’ purely private contracts relating to the ownership of real property unconstitutional.ā€

Also, tasteful/not tasteful is so subjective. On one street in my community, where the busy bodies are so concerned with the "do not let your dog poop in my yard" small signs, they think it's "tasteful" to have geese statues that wear clothes, statues of leaping dolphins, and small yard flags with every manor of cutesy saying. We have a 4-square foot rule so as long as a yard decoration is over 4 square feet and not obscene it's allowed. It's all a matter of perspective.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So interesting about FL. In CA, the Assn. can prohibit commercial signs in condo windows, except realtor signs, but must permit any noncommercial sign, flag or banner. The Assn can limit the sign size to 4' X 4' and banners & flags to 15 s. f. And our does that via our rules & regs.

I'm going to post a political banner soon, just can't decide what message to put on it. For me, tough choice between two current issues.
ArleeZ (New York)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Each resident has the right to put a sign on the gate, the wall of the house, or the window. Usually, our signs show house numbers and street names. We recently had new gates installed, so we decided to order a new stylish sign. We decided to engrave the street name, our house number, and our family name. I think it looks amazing. We ordered a minimalistic sign there https://baliandboo.com/collections/house-signs. Many neighbors were impressed with it and asked for the contacts of the company that designed such a beautiful sign.
ArleeZ (New York)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Our apartment complex has no rules about signage. Each resident has the right to put a sign on the gate, the wall of the house, or the window. Usually, our signs show house numbers and street names. We recently had new gates installed, so we decided to order a new stylish sign. We decided to engrave the street name, our house number, and our family name. I think it looks amazing. We ordered a minimalistic sign there https://baliandboo.com/collections/house-signs. Many neighbors were impressed with it and asked for the contacts of the company that designed such a beautiful sign.

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