would you consider ACC requests records accessible to all membmers?

Started by AdamL1 • 16 replies • 443 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Looking for feedback on this topic. We all know that generally minutes, financials, membership lists, etc are accessible to the Membership.

Looking at my state law, it says that records of meetings and actions of Directors and Committees, with and/or without a meeting, shall be kept and made available for inspection.

https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title30/T30CH30/SECT30-30-1101/
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title30/t30ch30/sect30-30-1102/

What about ACC applications? In my situation, I've been handed a box with 30 years of HOA paperwork, including every ACC request (at least what was stored). Every patio renovation, landscaping choice, door paint color, etc. Personally, I think these should be made available to Membership, but a few of the old-timers are insisting that these are private and specific to each individual Member.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamL1 on 02/24/2022 7:29 AM

Looking for feedback on this topic. We all know that generally minutes, financials, membership lists, etc are accessible to the Membership.

Looking at my state law, it says that records of meetings and actions of Directors and Committees, with and/or without a meeting, shall be kept and made available for inspection.

https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title30/T30CH30/SECT30-30-1101/
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title30/t30ch30/sect30-30-1102/

What about ACC applications? In my situation, I've been handed a box with 30 years of HOA paperwork, including every ACC request (at least what was stored). Every patio renovation, landscaping choice, door paint color, etc. Personally, I think these should be made available to Membership, but a few of the old-timers are insisting that these are private and specific to each individual Member.

I don't know about Idaho law. I do think in my state (washington) that ACC applications would be available to be viewed by members if desired. I think this is important because if someone is denied an application they may want to review a variety of applications to see what is approved versus what is not approved. There is nothing private about the contents of an ACC application in my opinion.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Short answer for Idaho (and in my opinion):
Yes, I consider ACC requests to be records that are accessible to members, with some minor caveats.

Elaboration:
Based on --

-- the sections of the Idaho Nonprofit Corporation Act that the OP kindly cited and linked;

and

-- Section 30-30-1102 (2) (a) and 30-30-1102 (2) (b) as given at https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title30/T30CH30/SECT30-30-1102/

an owner may request and potentially receive approval to inspect "i>all actions taken by committees of the board of directors"

I would think an action by the ARC to approve or disapprove an application would reference the application. As far as I am concerned, the owner's application is therefore a part of the ARC's action to approve or disapprove.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

In our community, exterior change requests would be considered specific to each homeowner, so everyone else wouldn't get access to it (unless they purchased the house, of course).

As usual, you'll probably need to go to an attorney with your question (and bring your documents - the governing ones). But first, a question - has anyone else had an issue with getting the ACC requests? It seems to me if you got a box of stuff, the information's already available to homeowners who ask, so what's your end game?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 02/24/2022 9:35 AM
In our community, exterior change requests would be considered specific to each homeowner, so everyone else wouldn't get access to it (unless they purchased the house, of course).

As usual, you'll probably need to go to an attorney with your question (and bring your documents - the governing ones). But first, a question - has anyone else had an issue with getting the ACC requests? It seems to me if you got a box of stuff, the information's already available to homeowners who ask, so what's your end game?

I got a box full of stuff for my Local HOA because I'm the Pres of the local sub HOA and I have a personal desire for transparency and open access to HOA documents. It certainly helps plan future requests by being able to see the history of past requests.

The Master HOA however is refusing to provide access to ACC requests. For example, I'd like to see the ACC request to approve the mega-playset that's sitting in someone's yard because I was told I need to submit an ACC request for a yard decoration they are classifying as a 'structure'....

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamL1 on 02/24/2022 10:24 AM

The Master HOA however is refusing to provide access to ACC requests. For example, I'd like to see the ACC request to approve the mega-playset that's sitting in someone's yard because I was told I need to submit an ACC request for a yard decoration they are classifying as a 'structure'....

If I were on the Master's Board and the Master possessed the ACC request and approval, and the request met the requirements from the nonprofit corporation statute as linked above (do see these), then I would vote to grant the request.

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/24/2022 10:29 AM

Agreed, but as I've shared before, my Master HOA has been and currently is run by a bunch of people that feel they can do whatever they want and want someone to 'kiss the ring' just to talk to them.

MichaelH34 (North Carolina)
Posts: 179

Posted:

To answer the original question, yes to the extent that other homeowners should be able to see what was requested and what was approved. I wouldn't just hand them the entire document chain between request and approval as there is likely to be privileged information in that pile.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

The more an association hides, the less their owners will trust them. I say let owners see any approved anything. Notice I said approved.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelH34 on 02/25/2022 9:55 AM
To answer the original question, yes to the extent that other homeowners should be able to see what was requested and what was approved. I wouldn't just hand them the entire document chain between request and approval as there is likely to be privileged information in that pile.

In the rare instances where the HOA/COA has consulted an attorney on an ACC application and inserts the attorney's written opinion into the package, yes, privilege applies. Else in my opinion and experience, it's highly unlikely anything privileged is in an ACC application yada package.

MichaelH34 (North Carolina)
Posts: 179

Posted:

All I meant with "privileged" is information that should rightfully be kept private.

For example, if a homeowner has requested that their email and/or phone # not be shared with other homeowners, I would want to make sure that's redacted from the information given as part of a record request.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelH34 on 02/25/2022 1:21 PM
All I meant with "privileged" is information that should rightfully be kept private.

For example, if a homeowner has requested that their email and/or phone # not be shared with other homeowners, I would want to make sure that's redacted from the information given as part of a record request.

The correct word is "private."

"Privileged" has a different meaning.

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

How is a request to build something controlled by the covenants (a contract between all homeowners) in any way private. I think homeowners have a right to applications unless you have a state law defining them as private. Obviously, any information considered confidential under the law should be redacted.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Agreed, but as I've shared before, my Master HOA has been and currently is run by a bunch of people that feel they can do whatever they want and want someone to 'kiss the ring' just to talk to them.

And this is why we have all of our documents scanned into PDF and accessible to any homeowner on our google drive. It prevents this situation of "information is power"

This happens so often when someone stands between you and information and they dont like you. They have the power to shut you down.... ahhhhh the POWER!!!! LOL

MichaelH34 (North Carolina)
Posts: 179

Posted:

SteveM9, curious... How much detail do you include in these public documents?

Specifically on ACC docs? Just the original, or final if there are mods needed, request and if it was approved or more detail than that?

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelH34 on 02/27/2022 6:34 AM
SteveM9, curious... How much detail do you include in these public documents?

Specifically on ACC docs? Just the original, or final if there are mods needed, request and if it was approved or more detail than that?

All HOA documents. ALL. Requests, approved, denied, etc. If it comes across the desk, its scanned and uploaded.

When we have members who want to examine records, we simply point them in to the google drive. No one needs to let a member examine our records in person and go through boxes, etc. That is simply inefficient and a waste of everyones time. Want to find a document? Here is the google drive, find it yourself.

Scan once. Available to all.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

The point of this is to be transparent.

If an officer/board can access these files, why not everyone?

Like I said before, we want people to find errors, fraud, stealing, etc. We want people to know who the vendors are, who approves, etc. We want people to know what we paid for things and sometimes they have suggested better vendors who have bid with a lower price.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here