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ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
The good news is that my Association's Board has finally started having what is expected to be monthly Board meetings. We had our first last week, even though the Association was turned over by the Developer in the Q3 of 2020. Yeah.

I have plenty of previous condo Board experience (IL), and some city government, too. Other than an advisory board that had no authority to do anything but navel gaze and was intentionally hamstrung by the city bureaucrat for this board who wanted to be sure that's all we did, I've always participated in an environment where the meeting had an agenda and it lasted as long as it took to get to the end of it. As this was our first, including what was supposed to be the approval of the FY2022 budget due no later than last Dec. 1st, the agenda had a ton of small items on it that went, I thought, pretty quickly for each one.

I'm used to an approach that clears the decks of the small stuff first, and then, if needed, takes a break and buckles down for the main event, so the budget was the last item of New Business. It turns out that the other two Board members' highest priority is limiting their attendance to one hour. In fact, one of them just stood up and walked out. The other stayed to at least talk about the budget, but no decision was made, and he wasn't happy about the time. We wrapped up after two hours, and had to skip an Executive Session where I had some legal stuff to talk about, but nothing that couldn't wait if it had to.

So - I'd like to ask the hive for suggestions on how we might conduct the Association's business in an environment where we're on the clock the moment the meeting begins, and it's over regardless when the hour is up.

TIA.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
For the interested reader, regarding ThomasP13's reference to "the hive":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_(website)

Else:
Ask a board majority to vote on a rule about time limits. But be reasonable. These folks are volunteers. Maybe the rule could be a request to plan on two hours for each board meeting and if not everything is covered, then agenda items not addressed or not addressed fully will be added to the next meeting's agenda.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Check you state laws. When the meeting is called to order with a quorum, if Board members do not stay for the entire meeting business may still continue. That is providing the remaining Board members fulfill the requirements. We have a board member that has never stayed for an entire meeting. I actually wish I knew this info before. Thank you HOATalk!

NC rules:

For older associations, the NC Nonprofit Act provides that except as otherwise provided in the Nonprofit Act, the articles of incorporation, or the bylaws, a quorum of a board of directors consists of a majority of the directors in office immediately before a meeting begins, but in no event fewer than one third of the number of directors in office. NCGS § 55A-8-24(a).
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Our Board meetings last 90 minutes. Anything beyond that is too long and we don't make the best decisions, and people lose interest. So I set a cap of 90 minutes and remind all Board members of the cap at the beginning of the meeting. If we do not get to everything, the items that we do not get to slide to the next meeting. However, our group seems to feel it's really important to finish the agenda, so I notice the tempo of discussion picks up as we approach the 90 minute time limit. It takes a lot of work ahead of time to lay out the meeting properly to cover it. Here's what we do:

1) A comprehensive meeting packet is distributed to all Board members, including the meeting minutes from the previous meeting, the agenda, any vendor bids received, and any other important things. The expectation is that all Board members spend 30 minutes or so reviewing the information prior to the meeting so we don't need to spend meeting time reading meeting minutes, for example.

2) The meeting minutes are not read, but rather approved by vote at the beginning of the meeting.

3) I create a detailed powerpoint slide with pictures and text descriptions to go along with the agenda. That way we all are thinking of the same thing when we discuss something and have a similar understanding.

4) Each agenda item goes like this:

a) Presentation of agenda topic by presenter (usually 5 minutes)
b) Discussion (3-5 minutes)
c) Motion to approve or decision to table or decision to reject

Each agenda item takes about 10 minutes. Thus, we can get through at most 9 agenda items per meeting.

Sometimes, I put on the powerpoint slide the number of minutes alloted to the topic, and then add everything up to make sure we are under 90 minutes. Also, posting the maximum amount of time for each slide helps focus people in how long things should take.

We have had great success with this. In my opinion, our meetings are fun, fast paced, and full of decision. I look forward to them and think other Board members look forward to them as well.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 02/20/2022 8:32 AM
For the interested reader, regarding ThomasP13's reference to "the hive":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_(website)

Else:
Ask a board majority to vote on a rule about time limits. But be reasonable. These folks are volunteers. Maybe the rule could be a request to plan on two hours for each board meeting and if not everything is covered, then agenda items not addressed or not addressed fully will be added to the next meeting's agenda.

No, you do not need to have the Board as a group vote on time limits. The President presides over the meeting and thus gets to decide how long the meeting should run. Of course the President should pay attention to fatigue, interest while balancing the need to accomplish lots of decision making during the meeting.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatJ1 on 02/20/2022 8:34 AM
Check you state laws. When the meeting is called to order with a quorum, if Board members do not stay for the entire meeting business may still continue. That is providing the remaining Board members fulfill the requirements. We have a board member that has never stayed for an entire meeting. I actually wish I knew this info before. Thank you HOATalk!

The President should expect that all Board members attend the entire meeting, and set the meeting length, tempo, and topics to make it interesting for all Board member to stay the duration. It's not reasonable to have Board members walking out mid-meeting and it points to an ineffectively run meeting if this happens.

There is another non-profit that I am on the Board for whose members routinely walk out part way through. I walk out myself after 90 minutes because they just drone on and on and we are just sitting there not making any decisions. I wish they were run better.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Couple more things -

The point of our meetings is to make decisions. That's the only reason we are gathered as a group, so if there is not a decision to make it is not on the agenda. If the discussion isn't leading us to making a decision, I either redirect us back on track to make a decision or we table the item for another meeting.

We don't do project status updates during meetings. I expect that we are all adults and we accomplish the work that we volunteer for. We simply don't have time to cover everything that we accomplished last month and go over that in detail.

We don't hash out details of projects. We focus on making the decision and then moving to the next topic.

We have executive session first and then jump into open session. Executive session is discussion only (no decisions are made in executive session and no minutes are taken), and then all decisions are made in open session. Decisions made in open session relating to executive session topics are obscured enough so they are nonsenical to people not part of executive session discussions.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 02/20/2022 8:39 AM
Posted By PatJ1 on 02/20/2022 8:34 AM
Check you state laws. When the meeting is called to order with a quorum, if Board members do not stay for the entire meeting business may still continue. That is providing the remaining Board members fulfill the requirements. We have a board member that has never stayed for an entire meeting. I actually wish I knew this info before. Thank you HOATalk!


The President should expect that all Board members attend the entire meeting, and set the meeting length, tempo, and topics to make it interesting for all Board member to stay the duration. It's not reasonable to have Board members walking out mid-meeting and it points to an ineffectively run meeting if this happens.

There is another non-profit that I am on the Board for whose members routinely walk out part way through. I walk out myself after 90 minutes because they just drone on and on and we are just sitting there not making any decisions. I wish they were run better.

Henry. We are always prepared and dive right in. Meetings last about an hour. Supporting documentation for the agenda is provided prior to our board meetings. One Board member, who also happens to be the one who doesn't read anything, and asks that everything be explained to him, will announce that his phone is dying or he has a "dead stop" at such and such a time part way through the agenda. I learned early on, important agenda stuff first. The rest is handled by email vote which in NC must be unanimous. Could have saved frustration if I knew we could have continued the meeting without him. I feel our PM should have known to guide us better.

Many HOA's struggle for board members. We are facing a board of 1 at our Annual Meeting in March. And "he" has announced he is leaving shortly thereafter. Our board of 3 of 5 has served for over 6 years. As president, I've worked with the cards dealt. Thankfully, we don't spend hours or months talking about the same thing.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 02/20/2022 8:37 AM
No, you do not need to have the Board as a group vote on time limits.
Please cite the law, bylaw or covenant where you are that says a Board may not agree on a rule for meeting length.

Please cite the law, bylaw or covenant that says the President determines the meeting length.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 02/20/2022 9:25 AM
Posted By HenryS7 on 02/20/2022 8:37 AM
No, you do not need to have the Board as a group vote on time limits.
Please cite the law, bylaw or covenant where you are that says a Board may not agree on a rule for meeting length.

Please cite the law, bylaw or covenant that says the President determines the meeting length.

In our by-laws, it says:

3. 2. 7 Conduct of Meetings
The President shall preside over all Board meetings...

Setting the meeting agenda, deciding the length of each discussion topic, and thus the overall length of the meeting, all falls under the domain of presiding over the meeting.

The meeting is concluded by a motion to adjourn the meeting. If the meeting is too short, the motion does not have to be passed. I believe that any Board member can introduce a motion to adjourn at any time. So I suppose the President is not the absolute authority on meeting length, but it's his or her job to keep it on track, set the agenda, set the discussion length for each item, and generally run the meeting. Thus, he is the one that sets the overall time for the meeting.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 02/20/2022 9:32 AM
Setting the meeting agenda, deciding the length of each discussion topic, and thus the overall length of the meeting, all falls under the domain of presiding over the meeting.
That's you claiming "preside" means the President gets to set the meeting agenda et cetera. You're the President of your HOA, with the other directors being lazy and apathetic. I can understand you wanting all this power. But to claim this should be the way things must be done is dishonest.

Setting the meeting agenda in particular should not be a President's power. It's highly unfair to the other directors, said directors having been elected to represent owners' interest.

Best practices says to ask the other directors how long they want meetings to run. They're volunteers. Treat them like sh-t, and they will behave like sh-t.

You and I disagree.

ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 02/20/2022 8:32 AM
For the interested reader, regarding ThomasP13's reference to "the hive":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_(website)

Else:
Ask a board majority to vote on a rule about time limits. But be reasonable. These folks are volunteers. Maybe the rule could be a request to plan on two hours for each board meeting and if not everything is covered, then agenda items not addressed or not addressed fully will be added to the next meeting's agenda.


One of the items at this past meeting was the creation of a Policies & Procedures document where we'll document how we agreed to do things in the Association. This differs from the Rules & Regulations document in that these aren't rules that can be violated with assigned penalties for violations, but rather putting things down on paper so it's not just assumed how things happen and institutional knowledge can be passed along.

The starting content was when monthly meetings would occur. They agreed, as long as it was modified to specify an hour. So, the time limit has been decided. It's a constraint I have to solve for. I have some ideas, but wanted to start by hearing what others think.
ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatJ1 on 02/20/2022 8:34 AM
Check you state laws. When the meeting is called to order with a quorum, if Board members do not stay for the entire meeting business may still continue. That is providing the remaining Board members fulfill the requirements. We have a board member that has never stayed for an entire meeting. I actually wish I knew this info before. Thank you HOATalk!

NC rules:

For older associations, the NC Nonprofit Act provides that except as otherwise provided in the Nonprofit Act, the articles of incorporation, or the bylaws, a quorum of a board of directors consists of a majority of the directors in office immediately before a meeting begins, but in no event fewer than one third of the number of directors in office. NCGS § 55A-8-24(a).


When the person walked out, we continued, as we continued to have a quorum. But in the future, they'll both leave if I don't make every effort to design the meeting for an hour rather than to complete the agenda. And if/when that happens, no more business will be able to be conducted, so I have to be sure the "must-do" items fall within that hour.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasP13 on 02/20/2022 9:38 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 02/20/2022 8:32 AM
For the interested reader, regarding ThomasP13's reference to "the hive":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_(website)

Else:
Ask a board majority to vote on a rule about time limits. But be reasonable. These folks are volunteers. Maybe the rule could be a request to plan on two hours for each board meeting and if not everything is covered, then agenda items not addressed or not addressed fully will be added to the next meeting's agenda.


One of the items at this past meeting was the creation of a Policies & Procedures document where we'll document how we agreed to do things in the Association. This differs from the Rules & Regulations document in that these aren't rules that can be violated with assigned penalties for violations, but rather putting things down on paper so it's not just assumed how things happen and institutional knowledge can be passed along.

The starting content was when monthly meetings would occur. They agreed, as long as it was modified to specify an hour. So, the time limit has been decided. It's a constraint I have to solve for. I have some ideas, but wanted to start by hearing what others think.

Just FYI, an hour is too short for our association. It'd be nice but there are too many decisions to make that we cannot make them all in an hour, including time for executive session. If if were in your shoes, I would keep a running track of items that are tabled due to going beyond the meeting time, and ensure that the other board members realize that the list of agenda items is growing and then ask them what you want to do about it. I think an hour was probably not selected because after careful review of several past meeting agendas, but rather a number that sounded good and people all agreed upon. This is unfortunate but the reality.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
ThomasP13, got it. I think you have a good plan for setting up the agenda so as to address items as efficiently as possible, so as to get the most bang for the buck and also so as to prioritize needs. I say: One, one-hour meeting at a time. Revise your approach to what to tackle on the agenda as needed.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You're making fine progress, Thomas. We, too, have a "Board Policy Log" just like yours.

We're only 200+ condo units, but are in a high rise, so our Assn. is complex with about 100 reserves components, elevators, rooftop HVAC system. etc. I only mention this because most of our monthly open meetings last 1 - 1-1/2 hours. The current president had the board vote about 2 years ago on his initiative to limit meetings to 1 - 1/2 hours. And to place an estimated time next to each agenda item. we approved his initiative.W e've had a long standard procedure that presentation of an agenda item may take no longer than 5 minutes. Usually they are less.

Any director or Owner may submit agenda items and all must be with our PM 10 days before the meeting. She & the prez organize the agenda and place an estimated time next to each a agenda item, e.g., "2 min." This has worked out exceedingly well for the Board here. Meetings almost always are under the hour & a half limit and also often are only one hour. It's basically New Business items that last a little longer.

Now, this agenda includes a 15 minute Open Forum at the very beginning and another at the very end. Owners remarks are limited to 2 minutes. Though about 30 owners attend, usually the Open Forum takes less time. Committees do submit written reports to the Board and present them; they are about 2 minutes.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 02/20/2022 8:37 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 02/20/2022 8:32 AM
For the interested reader, regarding ThomasP13's reference to "the hive":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_(website)

Else:
Ask a board majority to vote on a rule about time limits. But be reasonable. These folks are volunteers. Maybe the rule could be a request to plan on two hours for each board meeting and if not everything is covered, then agenda items not addressed or not addressed fully will be added to the next meeting's agenda.


No, you do not need to have the Board as a group vote on time limits. The President presides over the meeting and thus gets to decide how long the meeting should run. Of course the President should pay attention to fatigue, interest while balancing the need to accomplish lots of decision making during the meeting.

If your HOA follows Robert's Rules, the president can only adjourn a meeting without a motion when the agenda is complete or if there is a predetermined time that the meeting ends. So, they could not end the meeting early without a motion.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I think having a 1 hour time limit is ridiculously short but I do not think there should be a time limit. What happens if you have pressing business to discuss that has to be decided upon and you have not finished?

If the meeting is running unusually long, I would let the board decide whether or not the remainder of the agenda should be tabled to the next meeting. Any board member could make that motion.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I always had a 2 hour expectation and an 1 hour dream... Not all meetings are created equal. Limiting time for me is giving time for the general membership to speak more than overall meeting time. What happens when the hour is up? Stop talking and making decisions?

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We do not have many BOD Meetings but typically when we do, most if not all subjects, have been discussed via phone and Email so we are meeting primarily to formalize things. I call this being prepared.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
As you well know, JohnC, many states -- "open meeting sates"-- do not permit the "planning ahead" that is apparently OK in SC. Your statement may encourage some here to think it's OK to conduct business outside of board meetings. It's OK in some states,
but not in many others.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Can’t argue with a lot of what’s been said already – the most important thing in my opinion is (1) set an agenda and stick to it as closely as possible and (2) preside if you’re the president. If you allow yourself to be run over by everyone, whether it’s another board member or resident attending the meeting, that’s when the problems start.

You won’t always be able to address everything in an hour and sometimes, you need more time, especially when discussing budget items or which RFP to accept, so an hour is a good place to start, but allow yourself 90 to be safe. Even with an agenda, you’ll need to set priorities on what needs to be addressed sooner rather than later, so don’t be afraid to do that. As for the board members who want to leave within an hour, they’d better be prepared to come prepared to discuss the issues instead of reviewing information they should have looked at before showing up.

The board itself has to set the pace – everyone should show up and show up on time. That means if the meeting starts at 6 pm, all board members are in their seats ready to begin, not stroll in at 6:10 pm or later. If something happens and they’re running late or have to leave early, they should have the courtesy to notify the president or secretary.

Send a copy of the agenda to the board a few days in advance, with a reminder of who was supposed to follow up on what issue. If it wasn’t done, the board member should explain why and then the others can decide if they want to extend the time or do something else. I understand stuff happens, but if you don’t have a good excuse, you need to be called out (in a professional way) if you don’t do what you promised.

Tell everyone to turn off the cell phones or at least set them on vibrate (and go outside to take the call). There was another conversation about board members texting during meetings, which is also rude and unprofessional, so you might need to tell the board members about that too.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/21/2022 9:17 AM
As you well know, JohnC, many states -- "open meeting sates"-- do not permit the "planning ahead" that is apparently OK in SC. Your statement may encourage some here to think it's OK to conduct business outside of board meetings. It's OK in some states,
but not in many others.

We do not motion nor vote outside a BOD Meeting. To me, that says one is not doing business. Of course easy for me to say this as I am in SC which is a state that puts the corporation before the workers.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 02/21/2022 8:43 AM
We do not have many BOD Meetings but typically when we do, most if not all subjects, have been discussed via phone and Email so we are meeting primarily to formalize things. I call this being prepared.

Our Board does not discuss things via e-mail or phone outside of meetings. We hold all of our discussions at meetings with interaction among all Board members. We make better decisions that way and we are all engaged.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
A one hour time limit is ludicrous and can never be adhered to. Try limiting homeowner forum input to X number of minutes.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
SC, JohnC, also seems to put corporations above homeowners. In many states, discussing and deliberating about HOA business matters by a quorum of directors is defined as a meeting. Henry's state of Washington is a good example and his Board seems to follow its laws

Adam of the USA (Idaho) asked about this topic recently, but he won't tell us what Idaho permits in this regard.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/21/2022 1:35 PM
SC, JohnC, also seems to put corporations above homeowners. In many states, discussing and deliberating about HOA business matters by a quorum of directors is defined as a meeting. Henry's state of Washington is a good example and his Board seems to follow its laws

Adam of the USA (Idaho) asked about this topic recently, but he won't tell us what Idaho permits in this regard.

Kerry

Personally, I am against putting the corporation above home owners but that it the way it is done here and we manage within the rules. That said, I think some states lean to much toward the home owner making it near an impossible task to efficiently run the corporation (association).
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasP13 on 02/20/2022 9:38 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 02/20/2022 8:32 AM
For the interested reader, regarding ThomasP13's reference to "the hive":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hive_(website)

Else:
Ask a board majority to vote on a rule about time limits. But be reasonable. These folks are volunteers. Maybe the rule could be a request to plan on two hours for each board meeting and if not everything is covered, then agenda items not addressed or not addressed fully will be added to the next meeting's agenda.


One of the items at this past meeting was the creation of a Policies & Procedures document where we'll document how we agreed to do things in the Association. This differs from the Rules & Regulations document in that these aren't rules that can be violated with assigned penalties for violations, but rather putting things down on paper so it's not just assumed how things happen and institutional knowledge can be passed along.

The starting content was when monthly meetings would occur. They agreed, as long as it was modified to specify an hour. So, the time limit has been decided. It's a constraint I have to solve for. I have some ideas, but wanted to start by hearing what others think.

Hi Thomas,

Your HOA meeting's business should certainly be fully conducted within 60 minutes if at all possible. I'd delay the community feedback portions (if any) until after business is concluded so board members may leave and not interfere with votes or decisions. For example, our property manager as the privilege of billing us extra for meetings longer than 60 minutes.

I think it's a good rule and it's good that your HOA directors want such structure if it works for them.

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