JonT4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our HOA has a rule not allowing unattached structures. A hot tub is a structure, no dispute. Can one still be installed without building a screen room?
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Hot tubs if HOA has no unattached structures rule
Started by JonT4 • 13 replies • 1493 views
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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
A hot tub is not a structure.
An enclosure or building (gazebo for example) is a structure.
However, a hot tub is an exterior change (because it's not put away inside the home when not in use).
Your Association likely requires exterior changes to be approved.
An enclosure or building (gazebo for example) is a structure.
However, a hot tub is an exterior change (because it's not put away inside the home when not in use).
Your Association likely requires exterior changes to be approved.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonT4 on 02/11/2022 10:42 AM
Our HOA has a rule not allowing unattached structures. A hot tub is a structure, no dispute. Can one still be installed without building a screen room?
Our HOA has a rule not allowing unattached structures. A hot tub is a structure, no dispute. Can one still be installed without building a screen room?
No dispute?
First question: what does your governing documents define as a structure?
Second Question: what does your city & state code/law define as a structure?
generally, a structure needs to be 'permanently' in place with footings...you know, a structure.
I would very much argue that a hot tub is NOT a structure.
JonT4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
Most insurance policies consider hot tubs "other structures" or unattached.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I never heard of a hot tub referred to as a structure. Any aquatic feature poses risks of flooding. Some above ground hot tubs need to be lifted into the backyard with a crane thus drawing unwanted attention
to yourself. Is this for yourself or are you a board member with this dilemma?
There are a few hot tubs on the market that are plug n play 110v and are hard sided. Most people just put a cover on them. It all depends on what your local ordnances require for hot tubs. BTW I never heard
of local ordinances requiring any "structure" erected around or surrounding back yard hot tubs. In regards to the possible flooding issue, you can always pipe the tub drain to your existing sewer drain, more expensive.
to yourself. Is this for yourself or are you a board member with this dilemma?
There are a few hot tubs on the market that are plug n play 110v and are hard sided. Most people just put a cover on them. It all depends on what your local ordnances require for hot tubs. BTW I never heard
of local ordinances requiring any "structure" erected around or surrounding back yard hot tubs. In regards to the possible flooding issue, you can always pipe the tub drain to your existing sewer drain, more expensive.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonT4 on 02/11/2022 11:06 AM
Most insurance policies consider hot tubs "other structures" or unattached.
Most insurance policies consider hot tubs "other structures" or unattached.
Jon, you need to start with investigating what is a structure and why.
In general, a hot tub is not a structure for HOA purposes. Is a BBQ a structure? A patio chair? A bird Bath?
Start there and then report back. Do not come in hot assuming its a structure without verifying.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonT4 on 02/11/2022 10:42 AM
Our HOA has a rule not allowing unattached structures. A hot tub is a structure, no dispute. Can one still be installed without building a screen room?
Our HOA has a rule not allowing unattached structures. A hot tub is a structure, no dispute. Can one still be installed without building a screen room?
Separate and independent from the question of "is a hot tub a structure," you need to validate and see what the 'rules' are about screening a hot tub.
Does your HOA docs require screening? does your city code require screening? Does FL law require screening?
If screening is required, what kind? Vegetation? fence? actual enclosed screen and frame? depending on the screening design, that screen may be considered a structure in and of it self.
This is entirely separate and independent from the hot tub structure question.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I say a hot tub is not a structure. I have seen an argument that it is an above ground pool thus not allowed. I doubt the local authorities have much to say about hot tubs. At the most, for safety reasons, it might require a cover when not in use. As far as things added to it, like a gazebo, might be considered a structure.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This does not fall under "structure". It falls under "Pools". Which are mostly not allowed unless temporary. People are always trying to get "therapy pools" or "hot tubs" installed. Trying the "It's doctor's orders". Well it isn't the next person who buys your house orders. It's also not the risk it provides to kids/animals. The noise it attracts. In my case the eyesore of my entering exiting will linger in many eyes forever.
So are you trying to get a hot tub approved by any means you can stretch the words and rules?
So are you trying to get a hot tub approved by any means you can stretch the words and rules?
Former HOA President
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/11/2022 2:59 PM
This does not fall under "structure". It falls under "Pools". Which are mostly not allowed unless temporary. People are always trying to get "therapy pools" or "hot tubs" installed. Trying the "It's doctor's orders". Well it isn't the next person who buys your house orders. It's also not the risk it provides to kids/animals. The noise it attracts. In my case the eyesore of my entering exiting will linger in many eyes forever.
So are you trying to get a hot tub approved by any means you can stretch the words and rules?
This does not fall under "structure". It falls under "Pools". Which are mostly not allowed unless temporary. People are always trying to get "therapy pools" or "hot tubs" installed. Trying the "It's doctor's orders". Well it isn't the next person who buys your house orders. It's also not the risk it provides to kids/animals. The noise it attracts. In my case the eyesore of my entering exiting will linger in many eyes forever.
So are you trying to get a hot tub approved by any means you can stretch the words and rules?
wow, someone's a bit bitter. I would caution against this advice. in most governing docs and codes/laws, A hot tub is not a pool. it is a separately defined thing. Also, most hot tubs are temporary, which means by your own statement, they are allowed in your 'hood.
Also, its quite shocking to me that you are trying to be the arbiter of someone elses health and wellness. And what business is it of yours to forecast if/when/what the next buyer will want.
Honestly, I think your statement here is a perfect example of HOA overreach and opinion rulings rather than fact-based citing of governing documents and law.
At least in my governing docs, "pools" are listed as an accessory structure, as well as a separate listing for "hot tubs."
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Funny but I agree with the OP that a hot tub is a "structure."
On the other hand, if the covenants are truly vague on the point, then either (1) the covenants might possibly be un-enforceable on this point; or (2) the board has discretion in identifying when something is an "unattached structure" and so not allowed. Per case law, this discretion must be exercised "reasonably." What is "reasonably"? This will depend on all the circumstances and the trial court judge.
On the other hand, if the covenants are truly vague on the point, then either (1) the covenants might possibly be un-enforceable on this point; or (2) the board has discretion in identifying when something is an "unattached structure" and so not allowed. Per case law, this discretion must be exercised "reasonably." What is "reasonably"? This will depend on all the circumstances and the trial court judge.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I would consider it an exterior change that would require prior approval from the board.
Sometimes governing documents aren't very specific, so the easiest way to figure this out is to simply ask the board or submit an exterior change request. Make sure you specify what this is, complete with dimensions. A photograph would be even better and you could always ask the retailer about screen rooms if you might need one (that will save time if the board says you have to have one).
Sometimes governing documents aren't very specific, so the easiest way to figure this out is to simply ask the board or submit an exterior change request. Make sure you specify what this is, complete with dimensions. A photograph would be even better and you could always ask the retailer about screen rooms if you might need one (that will save time if the board says you have to have one).
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
PS- if they say it's ok, get that in writing. This way if they try to renege, you'll have documents that can help you defend yourself.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Something tells me I am right that someone wants a hot tub and looking for any excuse to get one...
Former HOA President
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