"Actuals" spending reports

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

How many of you send out actual versus budget spending reports to homeowners?

Our Boards used to do this, but it takes a lot of time to get the numbers right so the numbers were never right when they were mailed out. After I joined the board first as treasurer and then later as President, I put an end to this practice. We no longer mail this information out to homeowners. I am not aware of a state law, CC&R, or by-law requirement to do so.

Since we stopped, we have received no complaints from homeowners about not having this information. We still mail out the budget, just not the actuals.

Is there any reason to resume sending the actuals to homeowners? They are complex and I doubt that many care about the details of spending. We are heavily spending right now and homeowners see a lot of work getting done in our neighborhood which is why they are not complaining, from my perspective.

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/10/2022 7:32 AM
How many of you send out actual versus budget spending reports to homeowners?

Our Boards used to do this, but it takes a lot of time to get the numbers right so the numbers were never right when they were mailed out. After I joined the board first as treasurer and then later as President, I put an end to this practice. We no longer mail this information out to homeowners. I am not aware of a state law, CC&R, or by-law requirement to do so.

Since we stopped, we have received no complaints from homeowners about not having this information. We still mail out the budget, just not the actuals.

Is there any reason to resume sending the actuals to homeowners? They are complex and I doubt that many care about the details of spending. We are heavily spending right now and homeowners see a lot of work getting done in our neighborhood which is why they are not complaining, from my perspective.

I'm pretty sure most state laws and your own governing documents require that you send both a year-end operating statement showing summary of transactions as well as a budget for the next fiscal year.

Are you telling us that you stopped sending your members the legally required financial details about the HOA?

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamL1 on 02/10/2022 7:45 AM

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/10/2022 7:32 AM
How many of you send out actual versus budget spending reports to homeowners?

Our Boards used to do this, but it takes a lot of time to get the numbers right so the numbers were never right when they were mailed out. After I joined the board first as treasurer and then later as President, I put an end to this practice. We no longer mail this information out to homeowners. I am not aware of a state law, CC&R, or by-law requirement to do so.

Since we stopped, we have received no complaints from homeowners about not having this information. We still mail out the budget, just not the actuals.

Is there any reason to resume sending the actuals to homeowners? They are complex and I doubt that many care about the details of spending. We are heavily spending right now and homeowners see a lot of work getting done in our neighborhood which is why they are not complaining, from my perspective.

I'm pretty sure most state laws and your own governing documents require that you send both a year-end operating statement showing summary of transactions as well as a budget for the next fiscal year.

Are you telling us that you stopped sending your members the legally required financial details about the HOA?

I have no idea what the law says. Our governing documents do not require it. Yes, we stopped sending the actual spending reports to our homeowners. I'll check with our property manager, if we are supposed to send out the actuals I will get that send out asap.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Washington state law RCW 64.38.045 requires the following:

At least annually, the association shall prepare, or cause to be prepared, a financial statement of the association. The financial statements of associations with annual assessments of fifty thousand dollars or more shall be audited at least annually by an independent certified public accountant, but the audit may be waived if sixty-seven percent of the votes cast by owners, in person or by proxy, at a meeting of the association at which a quorum is present, vote each year to waive the audit.

In my opinion a "financial statement" does not mean the HOA has to provide a comparison of what was budgeted vs. what was actually spent.

On the other hand, a competent bookkeeper would help prepare the budget, line by line; keep records of accounts, line by line of course; and subsequently be able to readily provide such a comparison.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/10/2022 8:01 AM
Washington state law RCW 64.38.045 requires the following:

At least annually, the association shall prepare, or cause to be prepared, a financial statement of the association. The financial statements of associations with annual assessments of fifty thousand dollars or more shall be audited at least annually by an independent certified public accountant, but the audit may be waived if sixty-seven percent of the votes cast by owners, in person or by proxy, at a meeting of the association at which a quorum is present, vote each year to waive the audit.

In my opinion a "financial statement" does not mean the HOA has to provide a comparison of what was budgeted vs. what was actually spent.

On the other hand, a competent bookkeeper would help prepare the budget, line by line; keep records of accounts, line by line of course; and subsequently be able to readily provide such a comparison.

Hmm. We have not prepared a financial statement of the association year to date. I think we need to do that and provide to the homeowners. We are doing the audit. We will see what the PM says.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Our Monthly Financials from our MC are over 40 pages long. At the Annual Meeting we hand out the Balance Sheet and Income Sheet (about 4 pages) for December which shows our year End. The full financial report is sent to each BOD monthly. Any owner may request the full report at any time and it will be Emailed to them within a day or two. In 5 years only one owner requested such.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Why wouldn't want to keep homeowners informed of where, why and how THEIR money's being spent? It's good that your board is making progress on getting things done, but that doesn't mean not bother with things that make good sense. The issue is making things available - you can't control whether they read it or how they should think about the numbers.

And if the numbers are wrong, that's something you and your colleagues should have hashed out with the property manager. In fact, the board should be checking the numbers periodically so they'll know how close they're keeping to the budget. If you need a bookkeeper to handle the record keeping to ensure they're complete and accurate, do your due diligence and hire one.

If you have a website, you can post the numbers there and be done with it. If you don't want to do it every month, try every quarter. That could be as simple as posting it as a spreadsheet and people can see the changes from month to month.

Your problem is that you make things too damned difficult for yourself and then whine about it. You don't want homeowners to attend meetings can't seem (or refuse to) tell your colleagues to get off their asses and do a little work, or spend any time on stuff you think is boring. Why in the hell are you even there, let alone be President?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Income statements typically have a Year To Date (YTD) column showing actual vs budget. The December income statement will show the Actual vs Budget for the year. No extra work required.

We post income statements on the HOA website, under a password protected area.

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/10/2022 7:48 AM

I have no idea what the law says. Our governing documents do not require it. Yes, we stopped sending the actual spending reports to our homeowners. I'll check with our property manager, if we are supposed to send out the actuals I will get that send out asap.

You're the President (and previously Treasurer) and you have no idea about the law? And you're 100% certain your governing docs have no instructions about financial statements?....honestly I'm shocked at your response. I can't tell if its apathy, incompetence, or discontent for your members...It took me about 3 seconds to verify Arizona law....Your response here shows bad faith and breach of fiduciary duty to your HOA.

I

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Why in the hell are you even there, let alone be President?

I'm in it for the money, the fortune, and the fame that I get for being HOA president. When I walk the neighborhood, I'm starting to notice that the paparazzo are following me to sneak a few pics of me inspecting light poles or checking out mailbox units. Apparently these pictures of me are worth a pretty penny in our neighborhood gossip spread.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Why in the hell are you even there, let alone be President?

I'm in it for the money, the fortune, and the fame that I get for being HOA president. When I walk the neighborhood, I'm starting to notice that the paparazzo are following me to sneak a few pics of me inspecting light poles or checking out mailbox units. Apparently these pictures of me are worth a pretty penny in our neighborhood gossip spread.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 02/10/2022 9:12 AM
It's good that your board is making progress on getting things done

Here's my approximately daily post of support for HenryS7.

His board is not making progress. The other directors are apathetic, not educated (by all appearances) and lazy.

HenryS7 is making progress, doing the best he can under the circumstances.

I am not sure why a few of the veterans here continue to insist that HenryS7 can control people. Henry's Board's directors are lawfully elected. He has no one willing to take their places. I think he's stuck.

I do not like some of HenryS7's responses, obviously. In my puny way as an anonymous forum member, possibly in PJs and chain-smoking Sobranies, I try to keep an eye on abiding by the law and covenants. But I also am trying to temper my responses to the awful hand HenryS7 apparently has been dealt. I want what I say to maybe have a bit of value.

GregM14 (Washington)
Posts: 81

Posted:

Thanks AugustinD.

Yes, the other board members were voted on by the homeowners, so I don't get to pick my team. They don't choose to educate themselves.

In all honesty, the Treasurer, not the President, should be the one asking about sending out the actuals to the homeowners. But he didn't, so here I am asking about that. I have an inquiry out to the PM and we will do what we need to do.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Barbara's method is sound. Post the financials on the protected website each month so that Owners can review them if they wish. The Dec. financials will show the actual vs. budgeted amounts for various line items. Otherwise, an annual statement is good. In CA, it can be emailed to owners who've consented. don't know about WA.

Our monthly financials run about 100 pages. Henry's most likely are a lot fewer. Surely, though, you weren't sending them out to owners every month, Henry?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 02/10/2022 10:26 AM
Barbara's method is sound. Post the financials on the protected website each month so that Owners can review them if they wish. The Dec. financials will show the actual vs. budgeted amounts for various line items. Otherwise, an annual statement is good. In CA, it can be emailed to owners who've consented. don't know about WA.

Our monthly financials run about 100 pages. Henry's most likely are a lot fewer. Surely, though, you weren't sending them out to owners every month, Henry?

The actuals versus budgeted are shown in an Accrual or Modified Accrual Bookkeeping System (method preferred by CPA's) but a lot of HOA's STILL use a cash basis so actual to budget can be harder to prepare. Most people are happy seeing just actual.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

It's in the monthly treasures report which is an attachment to the minutes.
Minutes are posted on the website, if members are interested.

It's also in the yearly treasurers report for the general membership meeting and provided to all who attend. This report is also attached to the general membership meeting minutes (draft until the following year's meeting) and published to the website.

At least that is the way it was done when I was on the board.
The new board (in my last HOA) does many things I don't agree with and it is unknown if they are still doing this.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/10/2022 7:32 AM
How many of you send out actual versus budget spending reports to homeowners?

Our Boards used to do this, but it takes a lot of time to get the numbers right so the numbers were never right when they were mailed out. After I joined the board first as treasurer and then later as President, I put an end to this practice. We no longer mail this information out to homeowners. I am not aware of a state law, CC&R, or by-law requirement to do so.

Since we stopped, we have received no complaints from homeowners about not having this information. We still mail out the budget, just not the actuals.

Is there any reason to resume sending the actuals to homeowners? They are complex and I doubt that many care about the details of spending. We are heavily spending right now and homeowners see a lot of work getting done in our neighborhood which is why they are not complaining, from my perspective.

Augustin referenced the state law that obligates/requires you and your association to prepare a financial statement. At least in the excerpt quoted, there's nothing about having to distribute it, but IMO there is no reason to not distribute it or at least inform owner of its existence so they may request it. That way there is transparency and owners are/feel informed.

A few thoughts:
- Lack of receipt of "official" complaints does not mean folks are happy with what is occurring. Your "vocal minority", "blue collar" friends that meet at the bar are doing the complaining that you say is not occurring. The exact comments of theirs that you posted in another thread should be evidence to you that people are not content with your spending and the things you say are getting done (their comments indicate they do not agree).
- Confused as to why your financials and preparing actuals is so complex . . . if that's the case you are doing something wrong.
- Again, you make assumptions that could be very incorrect. You assume neighbors don't want the info and don't care about the details of your spending. (See example above from your friends at the bar . . . they care.)
- A budget can typically be significantly different that actual spending. Providing both to your homeowners will show them what the situation is in your neighborhood.
- Would be interesting to see how your budget looks in regard to "a lot of work getting done". Did you budget for the work to get done? Are you spending homeowner money that you are permitted to spend on the things you are paying for?

Finally, the term "financial statement" has specific meaning in corporate and financial arenas. It's my understanding that this is an encompassing term that indicates specific things like a Balance Sheet, Income Statement, and Cash Flow Statement. These are all things and canned reports in financial software that serve a different purpose and from which much information/data can be gleaned . . . the most basic of which if your Annual Budget as compared to your Actual spending for that time period.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Your post is actually quite timely for me . . .

Just the other day, I received notice from my HOA (which also included a lot of good info on updates and processes) that our annual assessment invoices will be sent out shortly. They announced an increase of $50 annually. There was no budget included. I have no issue with paying a $50 increase; however, I'm pretty sure that amount of increase would require homeowner approval and it isn't clear to me why an increase is needed . . . so I asked questions.

I asked to receive the 2022 budget that showed how this $50 increase was calculated. And I also asked for the annual financial statement that PA state law says each association is to prepare annually and consists of at least a balance sheet and income statement. (Note . . . I don't think my HOA really prepares these either.)

What I received was informative but not what I wanted. I received the 2021 Budget versus Actuals and a "2021 financials statement" document that referenced all 2020 dates and is just a statement of our accounts (part of the bigger picture). So I still don't have the 2022 budget that shows how they are calculating the $50 increase in assessment. But we'll get there. I am able to compare what was budgeted in 2021 versus what was spent. This was eye-opening as the budget was significantly exceeded in areas not budgeted for and is likely the reason for the $50 increase this year. I'll be asking more question . . . mostly to become informed and partially to maybe assist them with thinking differently about things and posturing us for more proper budgeting/accounting/spending in coming years.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 02/11/2022 6:30 AM

Just the other day, I received notice from my HOA (which also included a lot of good info on updates and processes) that our annual assessment invoices will be sent out shortly. They announced an increase of $50 annually. There was no budget included. I have no issue with paying a $50 increase; however, I'm pretty sure that amount of increase would require homeowner approval and it isn't clear to me why an increase is needed . . .

Care to quote the Pennsylvania statute section or your HOA's covenant that states when an owners' vote is required for an assessment increase?

I know such statute sections exist in many (but not all) states, and such covenants exist for many (but not all) HOAs/COAs. In view of the Surfside condo collapse, I am interesting in continuing to get the pulse, nationwide, of the extent to which a Board's hands are tied when an assessment increase is needed.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 02/11/2022 6:05 AM

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/10/2022 7:32 AM
How many of you send out actual versus budget spending reports to homeowners?

Our Boards used to do this, but it takes a lot of time to get the numbers right so the numbers were never right when they were mailed out. After I joined the board first as treasurer and then later as President, I put an end to this practice. We no longer mail this information out to homeowners. I am not aware of a state law, CC&R, or by-law requirement to do so.

Since we stopped, we have received no complaints from homeowners about not having this information. We still mail out the budget, just not the actuals.

Is there any reason to resume sending the actuals to homeowners? They are complex and I doubt that many care about the details of spending. We are heavily spending right now and homeowners see a lot of work getting done in our neighborhood which is why they are not complaining, from my perspective.

Augustin referenced the state law that obligates/requires you and your association to prepare a financial statement. At least in the excerpt quoted, there's nothing about having to distribute it, but IMO there is no reason to not distribute it or at least inform owner of its existence so they may request it. That way there is transparency and owners are/feel informed.

A few thoughts:
- Lack of receipt of "official" complaints does not mean folks are happy with what is occurring. Your "vocal minority", "blue collar" friends that meet at the bar are doing the complaining that you say is not occurring. The exact comments of theirs that you posted in another thread should be evidence to you that people are not content with your spending and the things you say are getting done (their comments indicate they do not agree).
- Confused as to why your financials and preparing actuals is so complex . . . if that's the case you are doing something wrong.
- Again, you make assumptions that could be very incorrect. You assume neighbors don't want the info and don't care about the details of your spending. (See example above from your friends at the bar . . . they care.)
- A budget can typically be significantly different that actual spending. Providing both to your homeowners will show them what the situation is in your neighborhood.
- Would be interesting to see how your budget looks in regard to "a lot of work getting done". Did you budget for the work to get done? Are you spending homeowner money that you are permitted to spend on the things you are paying for?

Finally, the term "financial statement" has specific meaning in corporate and financial arenas. It's my understanding that this is an encompassing term that indicates specific things like a Balance Sheet, Income Statement, and Cash Flow Statement. These are all things and canned reports in financial software that serve a different purpose and from which much information/data can be gleaned . . . the most basic of which if your Annual Budget as compared to your Actual spending for that time period.

The reason why it's complex to prepare the actuals is due to our property manager byzantine method of issuing payments. Our property manager releases contracts but is not part of paying contracts. Contracts are paid by a separate person who receives the invoice directly from the supplier, confirms it's a valid invoice, and pays accordingly. That poor person has no idea what subaccount the Board wants the invoice to be charged against, so just guesses. I then have to go through the check register every few months, find all of the charges that went against the wrong subaccount, and file paperwork with the property manager to change which subaccount that they were charged against.

At this point, I am sure someone has comments about why this is a bad process. However, I didn't set up the process. It is our property manager. I am simply a cog in the wheel of the process that exists and have no control over defining the process.

Thus, it takes a bit of time to make sure actuals are all charged to the right budget accounts.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Blaming the property manager again, are we? You do remember he/she works for the association, right?

Are you saying NO ONE has thought to sit down with the property manager and whoever's paying the checks and say "look, we have issues with payments being credited to the wrong subaccount and that's causing delays in preparing an income/expense statement that's complete and accurate. Let's discuss the process and what can be done to fix it."

Or - give a list of subaccounts to the persons writing the checks so he/she will know where payments are to be credited. The property manager can then review a draft income/expense statement to make sure everything is where it's supposed to be. The board treasurer could also participate (it's only once a month) and when everything's complete, run the report and the board can discuss it at the next meeting. EVERYONE should review the report so if they have questions, they can bring them up and the property manager can investigate and then follow up. Do not post the report to the website (where the homeowners can see it) until you're sure of its accuracy. This may be a bit time-consuming at first, but once the property manager and the person cutting the checks get the hang of it, this should be easier for everyone.

The property manager may have set this up, but has a responsibility to make sure the information's accurate, complete, and done on time. If he/she can't figure out how to do that (it may work for other communities, but apparently not for yours), maybe you do need to bring in a bookkeeper to do it for you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/11/2022 7:41 AM

Posted By ND on 02/11/2022 6:05 AM

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/10/2022 7:32 AM
How many of you send out actual versus budget spending reports to homeowners?

Our Boards used to do this, but it takes a lot of time to get the numbers right so the numbers were never right when they were mailed out. After I joined the board first as treasurer and then later as President, I put an end to this practice. We no longer mail this information out to homeowners. I am not aware of a state law, CC&R, or by-law requirement to do so.

Since we stopped, we have received no complaints from homeowners about not having this information. We still mail out the budget, just not the actuals.

Is there any reason to resume sending the actuals to homeowners? They are complex and I doubt that many care about the details of spending. We are heavily spending right now and homeowners see a lot of work getting done in our neighborhood which is why they are not complaining, from my perspective.

Augustin referenced the state law that obligates/requires you and your association to prepare a financial statement. At least in the excerpt quoted, there's nothing about having to distribute it, but IMO there is no reason to not distribute it or at least inform owner of its existence so they may request it. That way there is transparency and owners are/feel informed.

A few thoughts:
- Lack of receipt of "official" complaints does not mean folks are happy with what is occurring. Your "vocal minority", "blue collar" friends that meet at the bar are doing the complaining that you say is not occurring. The exact comments of theirs that you posted in another thread should be evidence to you that people are not content with your spending and the things you say are getting done (their comments indicate they do not agree).
- Confused as to why your financials and preparing actuals is so complex . . . if that's the case you are doing something wrong.
- Again, you make assumptions that could be very incorrect. You assume neighbors don't want the info and don't care about the details of your spending. (See example above from your friends at the bar . . . they care.)
- A budget can typically be significantly different that actual spending. Providing both to your homeowners will show them what the situation is in your neighborhood.
- Would be interesting to see how your budget looks in regard to "a lot of work getting done". Did you budget for the work to get done? Are you spending homeowner money that you are permitted to spend on the things you are paying for?

Finally, the term "financial statement" has specific meaning in corporate and financial arenas. It's my understanding that this is an encompassing term that indicates specific things like a Balance Sheet, Income Statement, and Cash Flow Statement. These are all things and canned reports in financial software that serve a different purpose and from which much information/data can be gleaned . . . the most basic of which if your Annual Budget as compared to your Actual spending for that time period.

The reason why it's complex to prepare the actuals is due to our property manager byzantine method of issuing payments. Our property manager releases contracts but is not part of paying contracts. Contracts are paid by a separate person who receives the invoice directly from the supplier, confirms it's a valid invoice, and pays accordingly. That poor person has no idea what subaccount the Board wants the invoice to be charged against, so just guesses. I then have to go through the check register every few months, find all of the charges that went against the wrong subaccount, and file paperwork with the property manager to change which subaccount that they were charged against.

At this point, I am sure someone has comments about why this is a bad process. However, I didn't set up the process. It is our property manager. I am simply a cog in the wheel of the process that exists and have no control over defining the process.

Thus, it takes a bit of time to make sure actuals are all charged to the right budget accounts.

No, that's basically the process. Although the manager should be approving invoices to verify the work was done and that the correct GL code (what you call "subaccount") is listed.

But for real, how are there THAT MANY mistakes in how payments are coded? This is not rocket science. Electric, Water, Landscape contract, admin, common area maintenance - it's rare that there is an invoice that doesn't have an obvious code.

Henry, with all due respect, your community is neither large nor complex, based on the information you've provided before. I do not understand why you have so many challenges.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

When we were on a cash basic, at our Annual Meeting we presented a very simple spread sheet showing Budget in one column and Actual in another Column. Could have easily show Deviation but we did not.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

I give up. I quit.

Maybe one of you can move here, become the HOA president, and then show me how you can run our association more effectively.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/11/2022 10:24 AM
I give up. I quit.

Maybe one of you can move here, become the HOA president, and then show me how you can run our association more effectively.

Henry,

You asked if there was a reason to resume sending actuals out to members.

I believe what everyone was sharing was how they do it.

The reason would be transparency.

If you are on a cash basis, which I believe most Associations are, then it should be an easy thing to do and be accurate at the date of the document. If your are on an accural basis, most, unless they have some accounting training, find the document hard to follow.

How your board does or does not share the actuals is entirely up to your board.

I expect your treasurer is providing the info to the board at each meeting, which is all that should be required (other then making them available to the any member who asks).

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/11/2022 6:37 AM

Posted By ND on 02/11/2022 6:30 AM

Just the other day, I received notice from my HOA (which also included a lot of good info on updates and processes) that our annual assessment invoices will be sent out shortly. They announced an increase of $50 annually. There was no budget included. I have no issue with paying a $50 increase; however, I'm pretty sure that amount of increase would require homeowner approval and it isn't clear to me why an increase is needed . . .

Care to quote the Pennsylvania statute section or your HOA's covenant that states when an owners' vote is required for an assessment increase?

I know such statute sections exist in many (but not all) states, and such covenants exist for many (but not all) HOAs/COAs. In view of the Surfside condo collapse, I am interesting in continuing to get the pulse, nationwide, of the extent to which a Board's hands are tied when an assessment increase is needed.

Augustin, good catch. I know you asked that question having already scoured the PA Uniform Planned Community Act and found that an owner vote of a budget increase does not exist. I was mistaken, but I did caveat my statement with "I'm pretty sure . . .".

Agreed that such requirements do exist in some states; however, it appears that PA is not one of them. That said (and I haven't looked at PA law, but I did look through my HOA's CC&Rs) . . . there is a requirement for any assessment increases to be put on the annual meeting agenda and for the budget to be sent out in advance of the increase taking place to allow time for review and for a certain percentage of owners to challenge the budget and associated increase. None of that yet has happened in my HOA.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryS7 on 02/11/2022 10:24 AM
I give up. I quit.

Maybe one of you can move here, become the HOA president, and then show me how you can run our association more effectively.

Henry, someone on another thread said something to the effect that . . . you are a blessing to your HOA and the amount of work and effort you put forth toward running your association is something not seen too often. I can say without even having seen your HOA operation, that it is alive, thriving, and getting things done only because you are involved. I suggest you not throw in the towel, but continue to come here for input and advice, and take it all with a grain of salt.

You are a single person with a lot of questions. We, the rest of the forum, are many people with many experiences and lots of us are responding to each of your posts/questions. It probably feels like a firehose coming back at you and that we're ganging up on you. I know a lot of us want to help; however, it seems like a fair amount of the help or advice is not heeded before you jump into your next challenge, issue, situation.

Regardless, my overall suggestion to you (as I think it was long ago) is to focus your efforts and limit what you spend your energy on. You must do what is most important for your HOA followed by the things that you enjoy doing (which also should be necessary for your HOA). You are one person with not much support. You cannot do it all and you cannot continue to spread yourself so thin. And maybe don't be so quick to share with the rest of us your latest challenge unless you desperately want or need some input or advice.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Two brief comments:

1. I have gotten a lot of really good advice here. While you may not see the tweaks and modifications that I have made in my leadership style, it's really helped out.

2. Nobody needs to feel obligated to respond to my inquiries if they don't want to or think I ask too many questions. Just keep scrolling if you aren't wanting to respond.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 02/11/2022 12:38 PM
Augustin, good catch. I know you asked that question having already scoured the PA Uniform Planned Community Act and found that an owner vote of a budget increase does not exist. I was mistaken, but I did caveat my statement with "I'm pretty sure . . .".

Agreed that such requirements do exist in some states; however, it appears that PA is not one of them. That said (and I haven't looked at PA law, but I did look through my HOA's CC&Rs) . . . there is a requirement for any assessment increases to be put on the annual meeting agenda and for the budget to be sent out in advance of the increase taking place to allow time for review and for a certain percentage of owners to challenge the budget and associated increase. None of that yet has happened in my HOA.

ND, no "gotcha" was intended. I did not check any Pennsylvania statutes. I thought you would know the statutes better (and you undoubtedly do).

Sometimes the way states tie their COA/HOA boards hands, with regards to assessment increases and/or Special Assessments amazes me. I am glad Pennsylvania does not.

I am finding your quest interesting. This is because I figure you know the best way to address a board to achieve the best chances of obtaining that to which you are legally entitled. E.g. no snarkiness; reference as needed the appropriate covenant or statute; no exclamation marks or all-cap words in the request; and adding a big dose of patience.

Understood about the rest. I hope you get the transparency to which you are entitled.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Yeesh. Last year I built a spreadsheet that compared actual spending to budget spending for every month of the year (with projected amounts for Nov and Dec), it was tremendously informative and as much as I tried I couldn’t get anyone except my wife to look at it.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 02/11/2022 4:41 PM
Yeesh. Last year I built a spreadsheet that compared actual spending to budget spending for every month of the year (with projected amounts for Nov and Dec), it was tremendously informative and as much as I tried I couldn’t get anyone except my wife to look at it.

My former COA did an end of the year comparison of budgeted vs. actual. I thought it quite interesting and helpful for future planning. Of those who do attend the annual meeting, I would think budgeted vs. actual is something most attendees would find helpful to understanding the year's expenses.

I think the majority of owners however are not paying attention to the financials. Those attending the annual meeting are a special sub-set of the owners.

Just saying.

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

We do not send out financial reports unless a member requests it. We do get a financial report at every meeting so it would be easy to duplicate if anyone requests a copy.

I think mailing them to all owners is a waste of money if you are not required to.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

henry,

just curious, what is the annaul budget of your hoa.

I ask because , It seems incredible that a general accounting program isn't being used to categorize payments into the appropriate subaccount etc.

But, If your hoa budget it much smaller than those of the the various commenters here, that could explain why you aren't familiar with the requirements etc.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

henry,

just curious, what is the annaul budget of your hoa.

I ask because , It seems incredible that a general accounting program isn't being used to categorize payments into the appropriate subaccount etc.

But, If your hoa budget it much smaller than those of the the various commenters here, that could explain why you aren't familiar with the requirements etc.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

When we were on a cash basis we had 4 incomes and 21 outgoes, including Reserve Fund. Some of the expenses were under the same name but broken down like fertilizing, and pines traw under landscaping as we paid companies other then our landscaper

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Henry,

I'll share the most recent 'Actual vs Budget" monthly report upon request with no questions asked. No, it's not reasonable to send every homeowner a monthly budget statement nor would I recommend posting it on the Internet.

Accessibility is the key.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 02/12/2022 1:08 PM
Henry,

I'll share the most recent 'Actual vs Budget" monthly report upon request with no questions asked. No, it's not reasonable to send every homeowner a monthly budget statement nor would I recommend posting it on the Internet.

Accessibility is the key.

Our MC sends each BOD Member (5) a complete budget report (4o pages each) each month. An owner can request it at any time. Only ever had one owner request a full report in 6 year. At the annual meeting we do hand out a Balance Report and an Income Report which is basically the first 3 pages of the full report. We literally get no questions about it. People typically only care about their dues and nothing else financially.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I asked Henry waaaay above if he had sent out the report monthly and he didn't reply. With other sending it out monthly is a waste of time. We post ours on our protected website that Omwers can review if they wish.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859

Posted:

Before we formatted an Association website, we sent out the financials each time we sent out our Board minutes which was abut 5 times per year. Now they are put on the website each month for all to see 24/7.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 02/12/2022 1:28 PM
I asked Henry waaaay above if he had sent out the report monthly and he didn't reply. With other sending it out monthly is a waste of time. We post ours on our protected website that Omwers can review if they wish.

We haven't sent out a financial report in well over a year. We sent out the budget but not an actuals summary. I didn't answer because that is what I said in the first post.