Do you have a vocal minority in your community?

Probably most have ones, but can you tell me about yours?

I just discovered we have one. We have a particular group of homes that are less expensive, and it appears that many of the owners might be more of the blue collar (trades) while the rest of the homes in the neighborhood are more white collar. It appears that the blue collar workers get together at the bar after work and hash over HOA business as part of their socialization.

Since they actually aren't decision makers, it's easy for them to say things in soundbites that make for good cocktail party conversation. Things like "they spend so much money on kids. The HOA should spend money on adults for a change!" or "We should be able to vote on what the Association does. It's our association after all!" or the like. As far as I can tell, this group never attends a meeting (annual meeting, budget ratification meeting, board meeting) nor ever contacts the property manager with questions, requests, or other correspondence. So other than hashing over what we do at the bar, it appears that they are non participants in our organziation.

What kind of vocal minorities do you have in your association?

We call it "parking lot chatter". Our community doesn't socialize outside of our parking lots. We've found out that they really don't like each other enough to socialize, but find things to talk about closer to home.

We love the one's that get back to the board that start, "why hasn't this been done?" only to find out that they talked to each other and didn't tell anyone else. Guess they thought that someone else would let the board know.

Yes, we have one of those in our community along with a handful of sympathizers. This particular person is a renter, not an owner, yet feels the HOA is out to get this person. We used to hear a steady stream of complaints from this renter.

Then one day I asked the person if they would be willing to volunteer to help out the HOA, and this person was thrilled to be included. I gave the person a simple (but mundane) task that would make our community a little better. It never got done.

Yet, I have not heard a peep out from this person ever since. Handing this person a volunteer task was the best thing I ever did as Board president, even though the task itself still needs to be done.

We have a couple of different factions and people sometimes belong to both depending on what the issue is.

Our biggest faction is the condo owners vs everyone else. We have a parkway that divides the neighborhood in half, with condos on one side and duplexes and single family homes on the other. So there is a natural barrier and a home-type barrier. The condo people are convinced that they get less services even though they pay the same monthly fee to the master. It's simply not true - but they think it. Part of their problem is that they pay condo fees on top of the monthly master fee and so they have the illusion they pay more than the rest of us. The condo group is incredibly vocal. We have been actively working on trying to include them in committees and working groups so they feel more included. I got an "atta boy" from the president of one of the condo associations today so hopefully our campaign is working.

The other faction (which includes a lot of condo people) is the elderly retirees vs the "younger" residents (the majority of our community is over 55). Our community is 20 years old and many of the elderly retirees have been here since the beginning. They have a "get off my lawn" mentality - they don't want changes, don't see the need for activities they aren't interested in, and especially don't want to pay for anything. This came up a couple of years ago when we were re-negotiating our community contract with Comcast. We could get internet included for a really great rate but had a huge group of elderly retirees who didn't use the internet and didn't see the value. The package included a dvr and the meeting where they tried to explain what a dvr was and how it worked was hilarious.

A third group is snowbirds. We have about 30 - 40 percent part time residents. And they NEVER want to spend any money because they are only here less than half the year.

Each one of these groups knows how to run the association better than the board. So as a board we just forge ahead, doing what we think is the right, and try to ignore the negative comments. As with other experiences that have been expressed, most of these people don't really participate in anything, just like to complain.

To be honest, I think your post sounds a bit pompous. You appear to be making generalizations and assumptions as well using superlatives like “never” for which I don’t think you have the data.

Chances are great that regardless of how folks make their living or the social status/class that you have them assigned to, they are occasionally talking about HOA “stuff” and it’s most likely along the lines of complaints rather than praise. Some neighbors do it at the bar enjoying beer and pretzels while others do it at the country club with their wine and cheese.

Only posting as a caution that making assumptions and perhaps incorrect categorizations may cloud your thinking and decision-making in regard to what’s correct, proper, best for the homeowners association as a collective group/organization.

Having been a Board Member myself for many years, I am well aware that regardless of how much time and effort I put in to doing what I felt was best for the HOA, there would always be people who felt differently and didn’t hesitate to make that disagreement known. It's all part of being a Board Member. Even though complaints were sometimes hard to take, I saw it as an opportunity to look at things from a different perspective, learn, and perhaps consider in future decision-making.

Someone else on here gave us the term "vocational dissident" which we love.

Perfectly sums up the people that like to complain but don't want to participate.

Often called CCO. Chief Complaining Officer. If no more then "parking lot talk" then no harm. The harm comes when they become vocal at meetings or take legal action. Until then, ignore them.

Agree with JohnC. Ignore 'em.

and, anyway, Henry, you've written plenty of times that your prefer no owners attend board meetings. And none do except your wife. I recall one time you wrote that you didn't want her to attend! Perhaps these Owners sense this benign exclusion and grumble among themselves instead.

That was me - I got the term from our attorneys who put it in some of their training materials.

The "blue collar" reference bothered me too. Henry also has mentioned, ( I think?) a group who grumble at a bus stop. But he didn't specify collar color.

So noting that the complainers are blue collar is relevant because in your view, the blue collar worker typically has less education than the white collar worker?

I find the white collar HOA/COA members typically to be as ignorant as the blue collar ones. The white collar workers are as likely to be clueless about the covenants and state law, and yet are more likely to spout off, "I talked to my attorney about this, and she's ready to take the Board to court... And she's a pit bull of an attorney" or "I served on such-and-such charity's nonprofit board, and they would never conduct business the way this HOA board does." As if there is any comparison to serving on the board of a nonprofit charity (often as a result of being a donor to the charity and meant as an honorary title) and serving on the board of a HOA/COA.

1 - Respectfully it might perhaps be less "edgy" to think of your own ( vocal & blue collar ) group as "dissenting fellow stakeholders" - with or without expressed beefs. Thereafter pure description may look less value-laden / import less potentially pejorative-looking implications.

Annoying to volunteers as may be online kvetching or whatever, at least there is some sort of indirect feedback. The kvetching may draw recognition to something actually wrong.

AND respectfully, some of what you are encountering from the "vocal minority" may be from being dismissed for years. And watching foul-ups.

2 - In my own 36 year old cross-covenanted lakefront community , with one potential exception, there IS NO "minority" - vocal nor otherwise. That itself can be a problem.

Almost every household has at least a couple of university degrees. One set of owners includes two attorneys. And there are lots of infinitely stubborn folks, full of bliss.

Nor is there any shortage of folks willing to share their leadership. Lots of folks wanting to rekindle the glory days of being Big Shots. Or what they imagined were Big Shots.

A specific ignored problem :

Despite all the Big Shots ready to lead, there's inability to grasp the significant issues of an upcoming expiration ( by operation of law - MRTA style ) of cross-covenants on title.

Nor interest in even getting arms-length advice to understand it.

Gentle private prodding ( about this ) to strategic exec members gets silence. Or so far got only the following over 3 years :

"what is a restrictive covenant ?" ( ! )

" I think we should focus on what brings us together" ( amusingly offensive in its ignorance )

"Why not write us a letter ?" ( I don't write to groups like that. )

3 - I myself am not going to be that vocal minority, regardless of consequences . . .

I welcome a vocal minority, majority, fringe group, whatever.

Every problem in an HOA is rooted in owner apathy. I'd rather deal with complaints than not caring at all.

Yes, it's the use of "blue collar" at all that's off-putting. Collar color has nothing to do with your concern Henry.

Wasn't it you who said a knot of owners at a bus stop also grumble?

I'm sure you're sick of hearing this from me, but I've advised repeatedly that you find a way to welcome owners into your board meetings. And now I'm thinking your HOA doesn't have a newsletter. My sense is most owners don't know what the Board is doing or why. When there are information vacuums, humans try to fill the void, but often have incomplete information so make errors in their assessments.

Perhaps with spring, You could hold board meeting outside in one of your park settings?