requirements before fees are charged

hi, I have read our documents and the texas 81 and 82.

My question is, does the association have to notify owners if they decided amongst themselves to charge for a service that has never been charged before.?

there was an water supply copper pipe that sprung a pinhole leak . The lead was only discovered when the downstairs neighbor noticed irregularities and water on the ceiling of the bathroom. The owner upstairs immediately had the repair done within a couple of hours.

In order to change out the nipple that had the pin hole leak, the water to the property had to be shut off. the leak was behind the in unit shutoff.

This was an emergency repair , the owner in the upstairs unit paid for the repair and replacement of damage inside their unit.
the downstairs neighbor paid for the drywall repair in their unit.

The owner then received a notice that 70 dollars was charged to their account to temporarily turn off the water.

There is no listed fee for this service in any of our documents. The actual water cutoff policy for the association, does not state anything about a charge for the act of turning off the water.

The office manager is now saying that the board agreed a while back that there should be a charge. The owner objected and asked for documentation. There is no documentation .

I suggested to this owner that the association can not create fees for something that has always been included in our monthly maintenance fees. My argument is the board can not alter the responsibility breakdown in our declaration without a vote of the association. (all changes to the declaration require a vote of the association.

Augustine, the help you provided previously had to do with due process for fines and or damages to the property. This is just whether a charge can be created out of thin air that has never been charged before.

LaskaS, I tend to see it the way MelissaP1 sees it. She did end her comment with a question mark, which is a good point. Owners should ask, "Why $70? Was a plumber called to shut off the water? Did the city charge this? Was a check written to pay a vendor to shut off the water? Did an employee of the association get up in the middle of the night and so be paid overtime to shut off water?" And so on.

Else a few other observations:

Condo associations and cities alike do not like just any Tom, Dick or Sally operating major shutoff valves. Liability reasons. A licensed plumber sometimes is the right person to do this (again, for liability reasons). I know all the old timers here, male and female alike, know what the enormous, long-handled "key" looks like to shut off the underground (in a vault) main shutoff valve for whatever.

A HOA's expenses for services can change over time, with fees being added that were not charged before. The HOA has to be reasonable and make an effort to be in compliance with the CCR. I think owners have to be reasonable and understand for example, why, in this (litigious) day and age, a COA's regular duty maintenance man should not be the one shutting the valve for a water main.

again, this is a completely made up charge that the current property manager (board member) instituted on his own.

I'm not saying that this charge cant be implemented if the board follows the process for changing who is responsible for what. I'm saying ,no procedures or documentation exists . And I'm asking of the board even has authority to start charging owners for something that used to be included in their monthly fees.

I had an emergency repair several years ago.. I was not charged.

additionally. the association previous to harvey when we had professional management. If there was a charge incurred by work done outside of ordinary maintenance, then the owner had to sign an work order approving the fee and charges. otherwise it the property manager approve it.

If there was a fee that was secretly approved with no notification to owners, and if this is legal. Then there still would need to be a signed work order by the owner.. otherwise a property manager could charge the owners arbitrarily for whatever they felt like.

If the contract with the manager allows for such a payment to the manager, then $70 for 20 minutes all together in an emergency situation does not seem out of line.

Do you think the manager should bill nothing?

I do not see why a non-emergency procedure for plumbing repairs and the accompanying water shut off should say something about charges for emergencies.

If you are still bothered by this, ask for a meeting with the board.

I wish some of the usual suspects here at HOATalk would not chime in here and give LaskaS grief. She is asking for people's impressions and help before going to her Board about this (if she goes to the Board). This is better than going straight to the Board.

the manager is actually a board member,, the association pays the employees . 2 maintenance and 1 office manager.

there is nothing anywhere that says there is a charge for water shutoff in emergencies.

the only reference to emergencies is that only the maintenance staff are authorized to shut if off.

again. I pay 550 a month to the association in maintenance fees.

I'm asking. if there is no documentation of any fee for water shutoff in emergencies. If there has never been a charge for an emergency shutoff that is performed in house. Can a property manger just tell the board he is going to start charging and then start charging. allwitholut any notification to owners?
the water supply line is defined by our declaration as a limited common element. the pinhole leak occurred at the nipple connection of cast iron to copper. there was no negligence.

-- What's in the manager's contract?

-- You have every right to ask the Board about this bill from the COA. Who knows? Maybe the Board will agree with you.

-- But I think your presentation is sloppy and is going to make the directors not want to listen to the part of your concerns that have validity. E.g. just because there was no negligence does not mean an owner of a plumbing system should not have to pay for xyz to get a problem fixed.

I did pay for the repair.

Because only the maintenance staff are the ones authorized to shutoff the water for emergencies and non emergencies.. I notified the property manager. He told me to contact him when the parts are here and we are ready to make the repair so he could turn off the water.. NOT TURNIG OFF THE WATER would have cause a flood of water into my unit and the downstairs unit..

Is there a requirement for the association to notify owners and document the change in our official documents if the board wants to start charging for something that has never before been charged to owners.

In 1999 the board made a resolution to the declaration and changed the ac units from association responsibility, to owner responsiblity, that required lawyers and filing with the county. etc.

Do you think the argument that creating a fee for operation of a common element(water shutoff valves_)in emergency cases is in effect changing the declaration and who is responsible for what. changes to the declaration require a vote of members of the hoa.\
if they say the board agreed to this informally at some point, That would be a violation of the requirement for all decisions of the board to be made a duly called meeting and documented in the minutes. there is no such documentation nor record of any board vote or even any mention of the topic. The property manager who is a board member said that he did mention it and the board agreed. To which I asked for the minutes that documented this; He then shut down and told me to take it up with the board. that's always the answer when he has taken action outside of of his authority.
I could have turned the water off myself. However, the water shutoff policy is clear and only maintenance can shut if off.

You could have unlawfully operated a major common area item, broken it, and cost the COA a fortune.

Again,

the rate that is normally charged when an owner requests a something, and if there is extra time a maintenance employee has is 35 dollars an hour.

The caveat is, all work requests that are charged back to an owner must be pre approved by the owner.

The emergency shutoff did not occur right away,,,, i temporarily stopped the leak with a rubber clamp and procured the required replacement part.

I guess I was wrong, Augustine,

here is a question
are there notice requirements before an association can start charging owners for coordination the water shutoff when there is an emergency plumbing repair necessary.

Does a condominium board have a right to agree to institute a new charge that owners will incur without a duly called meeting and without any record of such agreement.

Im not asking whether charging an owner for turning of the water is a good idea.

It may or may not be a good idea to start charging owners for emergency water shut off. However. that's not my point, I'm arguing that the office manager (boar member) does not have the authority to start charging owners for something that was never charged before when there was no notification to owners nor any documentation of a board agreement .etc.

-- Are you saying the HOA can never bill less than all owners for services the HOA renders to less than all owners' units?

-- I do not have any arguments that I think are particularly compelling so that you get your way here.

-- A $70 bill, at least some of which is justified since the service was to less than all owners' units, is not something I would want to spend so much time on.

augustine, i really don't mean to try and change your mind, what I'm trying to get the answer to is, is there any statute the expressly gives a single property manager who is also a board member the authority to arbitrarily decide to start charging for something that has never been charged for before. I don't believe it exists.

I also know that all decisions of the association are made by the board at a duly called meeting. I know that any board changes to the rules and regulations governing the association must occur at a duly called meeting and notice must be sent to owners at least 30 days before the new rule takes effect.

It's not 70 dollars. it's the principal. If an individual board member can make policy for the association and dole out charges and fees for whatever actions they think there should be a charge for, that's just nonsense. That is overreaching. Owners sign a contract, there's a list of items that owners can be charged for. including dog fees, mail keys, access gate remote, extra parking space, clubhouse rental, all of those things are recorded in our documents.