How to treat one owner heating a common garage??

Started by ThomasP13 • 15 replies • 263 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87

Posted:

My condo building has a separate structure that's a long row of double garages - 16 total. Garages are LCEs, but titled. Some Owners own two garage units; about half don't own any.

The By-Laws specify expenses attributed to the garage building be assessed equally across the 16, so someone who owns two pays double. As a new Association, this has yet to be broken out (the addition to the property insurance, if nothing else), but at least it's become part of the budgeting process, which still hasn't been enacted for FY2022 yet.

In talking with the Owner who appointed himself Property Manager (and has 2 of the garage slots), he argued that there are no costs worth talking about. I pointed out that there's electricity, although I have no idea at this point if that building has its own meter, and acknowledged if such usage is just operating the doors and the 5 minutes of the light (assuming the automatic door installation even includes a light), it's probably not worth it as a practical matter.

Well, one of the early buyers who also owns the last two garages on the far right of the garage building bought a brand new Miata last summer to go with his commuter. It's a sweet ride. And now that we've had a good snow, the garage roof above it makes it clear he's running a heater in there - his is clear and drying off while everyone else's is still covered with snow. And the garage is uninsulated, so it's likely a 1500w unit running 24/7. At 15 cents / KwH, that's $162 / month.

So, yeah, now it's worth talking about.

In a perfect world, each garage gets its own meter and is billed the same way each unit is. But, not only is it highly unlikely AES is going to agree to spend the money on installing that, I'm pretty sure the electrical is common across the building, so without a major rewiring project, it's not even possible to do.

Given the physical realities of the situation, how do people recommend this situation be handled?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I think you are not seeing the larger picture.

The garages have roofs, doors, door openers, etc. All of which will need to be replaced at some point in the future. All of which will require maintenance. These items should be in the reserve study and the individual users billed accordingly to fully fund those items.

ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 02/04/2022 12:02 PM
I think you are not seeing the larger picture.

The garages have roofs, doors, door openers, etc. All of which will need to be replaced at some point in the future. All of which will require maintenance. These items should be in the reserve study and the individual users billed accordingly to fully fund those items.

And when those items come up, they will be. Those having nothing to do with this issue.

This issue is essentially the same as someone running an extension cord into the hall to power their own space heater for their unit. Except, we currently have no clearly defined way to handle someone whose behavior that benefits only himself is being paid for by everyone. Let's keep the discussion to that please.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Well, I agree with Tim's post that you needed to reserves for these garages, o that IS an expense. Since the spaces are deed to the units, the reserves costs could easily be divvied up fairly.

Using the HOA's juice for one Owner is another matter. We have underground garages for our high rise. there are electrical outlets on columns every so often. Residents WERE sometimes using the, to change different items. The Board voted to cap them all with our maintenance staff having keys.

Your Board could vote to do the same, since they are limited comm area. Or, you'd probably need an estimate from your utility company to calculate the heater-runner's appx. monthly expense. Then, the board votes to bill that owners accordingly.

I don't know anything about wiring, but it's possible his space(s) could be wired and metered separately?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

What I would do:

Verify what the CC&Rs say about ownership of the garages. I'm confused about the apparent contradiction of the garages being deeded to individual owners but being classified as limited common elements.

Verify that the association is paying for the electricity. (I assume this is true if the garages are limited common elements.)

If it turns out the unit owner is stealing electricity, the problem becomes what to do about it:

* You can't really prove it without actually seeing an appliance hooked up in the garage.
* You can't determine the dollar value of what he's stealing.
* There is nothing to stop other owners from doing similar things (in one of my communities we had an owner install a fridge in the garage).
* A lawyer may well consider this "incidental use" of a garage, and unless your CC&Rs restrict this sort of thing, the associaition may not be able to do anything about it.

Unless there are reasonable ways to address the above four items, I'd be inclined to consider this one more annoying thing about condo living.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

One other thought: if the garage is being heated, is it possible that the owner is converting the garage to living space (and even renting it to somebody?!)? This would almost certainly be prohibited by the CC&Rs and the association could legitimately take action. There is still the problem of proving it, though.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Before I got all worked up over this I would first ask the owner. You could say that based on the lack of snow on the roof that the board is concerned that there are potentially dangerous heaters being operated in the garage.

ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 02/04/2022 1:11 PM
What I would do:

Verify what the CC&Rs say about ownership of the garages. I'm confused about the apparent contradiction of the garages being deeded to individual owners but being classified as limited common elements.

Verify that the association is paying for the electricity. (I assume this is true if the garages are limited common elements.)

If it turns out the unit owner is stealing electricity, the problem becomes what to do about it:

* You can't really prove it without actually seeing an appliance hooked up in the garage.
* You can't determine the dollar value of what he's stealing.
* There is nothing to stop other owners from doing similar things (in one of my communities we had an owner install a fridge in the garage).
* A lawyer may well consider this "incidental use" of a garage, and unless your CC&Rs restrict this sort of thing, the associaition may not be able to do anything about it.

Unless there are reasonable ways to address the above four items, I'd be inclined to consider this one more annoying thing about condo living.

From the Declaration:

"8.03 Garage Units. The Garage Units designated on the Drawing shall be treated as Limited
Common Elements for any Unit acquiring title thereto. The Garage Units may only be owned,
held and transferred among Unit owners. The Garage Units shall be used only for the purposes
of parking of motor vehicles or for storage. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing,
no Garage Unit shall be occupied by any person.

"8.04 Transfer of Exclusive Use of Covered Parking Spaces. A Garage Unit may only be
transferred from one Unit Owner to another by deed. Any transfer of the right of the exclusive
use of a Garage Unit in violation of this provision shall be null and void."

From the By-Laws:

"5.01 Obligation of Owners to Pay Assessments. Each Unit Owner shall have the duty and
obligation to pay his proportionate share of the expenses of administration, maintenance and
repair of the Common Elements and of other expenses provided for herein. Unless otherwise
provided for, such proportionate share shall be based on his Undivided Interest. Payment
thereof shall be in such amounts and at such times as may be determined by the Board of
Directors as hereinafter provided. Garage Unit Owners shall pay assessments for the costs of
maintenance, repair and insurance of the structure housing the Garage Units, which assessments
shall be made proportionately, with each Garage Unit Owner’s share being a fraction, the
numerator of which is the number of Garage Units owned, and denominator of which is the
total of 16 Garage Units."

I own a device that lets me meter device usage, including the ability to enter the KwH cost and have it tell me how much the juice the device I'm measuring is costing.

A fridge isn't free, but it sure doesn't cost as much as a 1500w space heater running in an uninsulated garage. Did you do anything about it?

The Association is paying for the electricity. What I haven't determined is whether the garage building has its own meter that I just haven't found yet (and we pay two bills each month to AES, one of which is about what I'd expect for the really low usage of the garage building) or if there's only one meter for everything that doesn't run thru one of the units' meters. Lots to learn here. Some stuff just has to wait.

This is a good example, I think, of the different hat a Board member has to put on when doing his Board duties. Since I don't own a garage, what would make me happy as a mere Owner is to have the garage on its own meter and let the garage folk duke it out about one person adding $150 to the bill they split equally and is maybe $2 tops a month for normal usage. But as the Board President, I find it hard to argue that that perspective is acting in the Association's best interest. At the very least, awareness of the issue means it deserves consideration even if that consideration results in no clear path forward.

I imagine that at the end of this process of considering options and hearing others' experiences and solutions, we get back to more of your considered wisdom: this is indeed one more annoying thing about condo living, and about the best we can do is make an appeal to each individual's inherent sense of fairness and propriety and then hope for the best.

ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 02/04/2022 1:21 PM
Before I got all worked up over this I would first ask the owner. You could say that based on the lack of snow on the roof that the board is concerned that there are potentially dangerous heaters being operated in the garage.

Completely agree in terms of approaching the person whose garage it is. And he's on the Board. I'm just trying to sort out options before doing anything at all. If, as Cathy suggests, there's really nothing to be done, then I especially like broaching the subject from the perspective you suggest. I'm assuming it's electric, but it might be something like propane.

Is it permissible to post a link to a pic? I think when people see the situation, it's immediately obvious something must account for it.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ThomasP13 on 02/04/2022 1:51 PM

You may lose the battle on the cost of electricity but how it's being heated is very much an issue. Are there cheap extension cords running multiple heaters on the same circuit? Are they located close to flammable items, etc...

Good luck!

ThomasP13 (Ohio)
Posts: 87

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 02/04/2022 1:17 PM
One other thought: if the garage is being heated, is it possible that the owner is converting the garage to living space (and even renting it to somebody?!)? This would almost certainly be prohibited by the CC&Rs and the association could legitimately take action. There is still the problem of proving it, though.

Fortunately, that's definitely not going on, and not only prohibited, would be impossible to even attempt without it being immediately apparent to everyone.

Naw, if there's something going on, it's the unreasonable use of common electricity. No one cares if some garage owner fires up a power tool or three some Saturday afternoon on some personal project. But, like the fridge example, there's always something possible where "what's reasonable" drifts into the grey area, where there's more than the camel's nose under the tent. I'm just trying to ponder, if not for this specific case, then for the next one, and there's always a next one.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

As far as I can tell, the electrical outlets are common elements. Hence the Board gets to make reasonable rules about their use.

First reasonable rule: No electric heaters allowed.

I would also recommend the board consult the city fire marshal on the point.

The President can go jump off a cliff.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Knowing more about the situation, I'm with Augustin. The Board can make a rule that no heaters can be used in the garages. Also consult with the fire marshal. There may be all kinds of restrictions about what can be stored in the garages. I don't think a fridge should be allowed either.

It's wrong for all garage owners to pay for this guy's electricity.

Our underground garage has parking spaces, so nothing is stored in them except personal shopping carts. But they are deeded to units and they are limited exclusive use common area. This is common and not the issue.

I think the OP, Thamas, is the board president. But I may have that wrong. One owner of two garages is the "self-appointed" property mgr. Yikes.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Knowing more about the situation, I'm with Augustin. The Board can make a rule that no heaters can be used in the garages. Also consult with the fire marshal. There may be all kinds of restrictions about what can be stored in the garages. I don't think a fridge should be allowed either.

It's wrong for all garage owners to pay for this guy's electricity.

Our underground garage has parking spaces, so nothing is stored in them except personal shopping carts. But they are deeded to units and they are limited exclusive use common area. This is common and not the issue.

I think the OP, Thomas, is the board president. But I may have that wrong. One owner of two garages is the "self-appointed" property mgr. Yikes.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/04/2022 2:05 PM
The President can go jump off a cliff.

ThomasP13, I beg your pardon. I got confused with another thread and thought the guy with the Miata who appears to be heating the garage was the President.

Of course, please do not jump off a cliff. You're doing a good job as far as I am concerned.

Thank you, KerryL1.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/04/2022 2:05 PM
As far as I can tell, the electrical outlets are common elements. Hence the Board gets to make reasonable rules about their use.

First reasonable rule: No electric heaters allowed.

I would also recommend the board consult the city fire marshal on the point.

The President can go jump off a cliff.

Now that I've thought about this some more.... one obvious way to tackle it is the safety issue. Unattended space heaters can cause fires, so in addition to talking to the local fire department you may want to see what your insurance agent has to say. This alone would justify making a rule about it.

This would apply to both electric and propane heaters. The latter wouldn't use electricity, but they need to be vented so wouldn't be appropriate for a closed up garage. People do dumb stuff with heaters all the time.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here