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HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
As you know I am the President of my homeowners association and the one on the Board that does the most work. We make decisions at monthly Board meetings as a group, and based on that direction I go off an execute the decisions that we made as a group. I tend not to participate in the discussions and let the other Board members hash things out, but work hard between meetings to execute the decisions in the best manner possible. In other words, I am sort of like the on-site volunteer property manager in addition to being Board President. This works well.

My wife takes interest in Board stuff, but can't be on the Board since she is my wife. She has volunteered to be part of the architectural change committee. This committee is comprised of 3-5 members of the community and they make their decisions (which are actually recommendations) as a group and then the Board discusses the recommendations and approves them at meetings.

Some have accused my family of holding too much power since I am President and she is lead of the ACC committee.

Now, we are looking at forming a compliance committee to handle all compliance issues that can be handled by a compliance committee. (i.e., they could double check the compliance site visits in case a homeowner claims they were sent a compliance letter in error). My wife may be interested in leading this committee.

We don't have a lot (i.e., we don't seem to have any) community volunteers that want to volunteer their time. Even the Board is reluctant to volunteer time beyond attending meetings. My wife is interested.

We have been told that it's our job to go knock on doors and drum up volunteers in the community, and that they exist if we just go find them. I don't have time for that.

Is there such a thing as too much power in one family with regards to a Homeowners Association? As long as we have multiple people on committees, make decisions at meetings and as a group, I would like to think that we are safe.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Hmmm … is your last name “Tudor”?

How many wives do you have?

Just me: there’s power, there’s the potential for abuse of that power, and then there’s actual abuse.

I think that anyone who feels you have “too much power” needs to run for the Board. What, they don’t have time for it? Then it’s like Mencken said: they’re getting the government they deserve.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillD16 on 02/01/2022 11:17 AM
Hmmm … is your last name “Tudor”?

How many wives do you have?

Just me: there’s power, there’s the potential for abuse of that power, and then there’s actual abuse.

I think that anyone who feels you have “too much power” needs to run for the Board. What, they don’t have time for it? Then it’s like Mencken said: they’re getting the government they deserve.

BillD

I like that answer. That's my opinion.

We had to send out a call for volunteer board members multiple times (i.e., pull teeth) just to have a full board. Door is wide open for volunteers but I am not going to drum them up.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
There can be an issue with one person serving on the board and his/her spouse serving on an advisory committee, but I’d have to first look at what committee the spouse is on. In this case, your ARC makes recommendations to the board on what requests should be approved or not, so it’s possible for someone to think the committee spouse might influence his/her spouse who sits on the board to approve the request or not. As you’ve probably seen from dozens of conversations on this website, some board members can be very persuasive in encouraging everyone else to go his/her way.

I think that’s a problem with your board because you’ve often spoken about how you’ve made this or that decision outside of board meetings or on your own, complaining about the extra work it creates. You keep complaining about your colleagues not doing anything else besides attending meetings, but I have yet to hear you say you’ve dropped the hammer on them, saying “I can’t and won’t do every bloody thing. I will do X and the rest of you have to take something else on – if it doesn’t get done, that’s on you – and then you can explain yourselves to the homeowners who elected you.”

And now you’re complaining someone told you to drum up volunteers – I don’t blame you for being annoyed, but you bought this on yourself. Why didn’t you tell that person what you’ve said here – I have a life outside the association, so why don’t YOU find a few people and bring them to a board meeting. I’m certain we can find something for them to do. Ditto for whoever accused you and the wife of having too much power – which makes no sense. Tell him or her the people to speak to are the other board members – why is it people see you do everything and the only time you hear anything from the others is when it’s time for a board meeting?

If you have several people on several committees, I agree you should be ok, but then again, that depends on the homeowners. HOAs really are a reflection of the people who live in them, so if you have a community full of people who’d rather sit around and criticize the people who are trying to make things better, I’d ignore them and keep doing the best it can. Or quit if you’re getting tired of it – what are they going to do, step in and run things?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Henry

Just last night an owner was complaining about a few things to me. I invited him to run for the BOD. He said no. I said end of conversation.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/01/2022 11:33 AM
There can be an issue with one person serving on the board and his/her spouse serving on an advisory committee, but I’d have to first look at what committee the spouse is on. In this case, your ARC makes recommendations to the board on what requests should be approved or not, so it’s possible for someone to think the committee spouse might influence his/her spouse who sits on the board to approve the request or not. As you’ve probably seen from dozens of conversations on this website, some board members can be very persuasive in encouraging everyone else to go his/her way.

I think that’s a problem with your board because you’ve often spoken about how you’ve made this or that decision outside of board meetings or on your own, complaining about the extra work it creates. You keep complaining about your colleagues not doing anything else besides attending meetings, but I have yet to hear you say you’ve dropped the hammer on them, saying “I can’t and won’t do every bloody thing. I will do X and the rest of you have to take something else on – if it doesn’t get done, that’s on you – and then you can explain yourselves to the homeowners who elected you.”

And now you’re complaining someone told you to drum up volunteers – I don’t blame you for being annoyed, but you bought this on yourself. Why didn’t you tell that person what you’ve said here – I have a life outside the association, so why don’t YOU find a few people and bring them to a board meeting. I’m certain we can find something for them to do. Ditto for whoever accused you and the wife of having too much power – which makes no sense. Tell him or her the people to speak to are the other board members – why is it people see you do everything and the only time you hear anything from the others is when it’s time for a board meeting?

If you have several people on several committees, I agree you should be ok, but then again, that depends on the homeowners. HOAs really are a reflection of the people who live in them, so if you have a community full of people who’d rather sit around and criticize the people who are trying to make things better, I’d ignore them and keep doing the best it can. Or quit if you’re getting tired of it – what are they going to do, step in and run things?

Shelia,

In the last year of the board, it's been a sea change. Yes, in the beginning we had quarterly meetings and did everything by e-mail, and I made decisions without full board concurrence. Then a huge blowup happened, I changed my tune, and now we have monthly meetings and all decisions are made during those monthly meetings. I wait on making decisions until we have had a chance to gather in the same room or Zoom and discuss things as a board. Things are working much smoother now.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
In that case, keep going, although I still say you need to put the onus back on these people who are sitting around doing nothing but nitpicking about this or that, like getting volunteers. It does take time to turn a community around, but you're heading in the right direction if you've got your committees. Maybe a light needs to be lit under your board colleagues...

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I realize committees cans be a great help. That said, our attorney advised us not to have an ARB (ACC) Committees as any disputes ends up in front of the BOD. Works well for us as we get very few requests. That said, if it was to much work for us I would want a committee no matter what our lawyer advised.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:

I just remembered this: Texas law recently changed so that a married couple on the Board and ACC could be problematic:


c) A person may not be appointed or elected to serve on an architectural review authority if the person is:
(1) a current board member;
(2) a current board member's spouse; or
(3) a person residing in a current board member's household.


Of course, you don’t live in Texas, Henry. I don’t know if AZ law touches on this at all. I’ve been married for long enough that I seriously question whether or not a married couple where one person is on the Board and the other person is on the ACC truly constitutes a toxic concentration of power. But I guess the notion makes some people nervous.

BillD

Below is a more complete quote:

Sec. 209.00505. ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW AUTHORITY. (a) In this section, "architectural review authority" means the governing authority for the review and approval of improvements within a subdivision.
(b) This section:
(1) applies only to a property owners' association that consists of more than 40 lots; and
(2) does not apply during a development period or during any period in which the declarant:
(A) appoints at least a majority of the members of the architectural review authority or otherwise controls the appointment of the architectural review authority; or
(B) has the right to veto or modify a decision of the architectural review authority.
(c) A person may not be appointed or elected to serve on an architectural review authority if the person is:
(1) a current board member;
(2) a current board member's spouse; or
(3) a person residing in a current board member's household.
(d) A decision by the architectural review authority denying an application or request by an owner for the construction of improvements in the subdivision may be appealed to the board. A written notice of the denial must be provided to the owner by certified mail, hand delivery, or electronic delivery. The notice must:
(1) describe the basis for the denial in reasonable detail and changes, if any, to the application or improvements required as a condition to approval; and
(2) inform the owner that the owner may request a hearing under Subsection (e) on or before the 30th day after the date the notice was mailed to the owner.
(e) The board shall hold a hearing under this section not later than the 30th day after the date the board receives the owner's request for a hearing and shall notify the owner of the date, time, and place of the hearing not later than the 10th day before the date of the hearing. Only one hearing is required under this subsection.
(f) During a hearing, the board or the designated representative of the property owners' association and the owner or the owner's designated representative will each be provided the opportunity to discuss, verify facts, and resolve the denial of the owner's application or request for the construction of improvements, and the changes, if any, requested by the architectural review authority in the notice provided to the owner under Subsection (d).
(g) The board or the owner may request a postponement. If requested, a postponement shall be granted for a period of not more than 10 days. Additional postponements may be granted by agreement of the parties.
(h) The property owners' association or the owner may make an audio recording of the meeting.
(i) The board may affirm, modify, or reverse, in whole or in part, any decision of the architectural review authority as consistent with the subdivision's declaration.
Added by Acts 2021, 87th Leg., R.S., Ch. 951 (S.B. 1588), Sec. 11, eff. September 1, 2021.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
How many owners are on your ARC, Henry? How many are on your Compliance Committee?

If only one to two, yes, your household has too much power over others. If each is fully and a actively staffed with at least three members, I don't see a problem. We have a board approved-document stating that every committee must have at least 3 members.

Henry, HOW did you let owners know that your Board was seeking Compliance Committee members?? I agree you don't have have to knock on doors. But did you advertise in, say, an HOA newsletter?? Or post notices on a bulletin board that all residents see?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is not necessarily a "power" thing. It's the "Perception" of power. That is what your really going to be dealing with. Honestly, if your HOA is all cool and doing what it needs to do, then I would not shake the boat. It may not be how others run their HOA or even should. If it works for your HOA then it works for your HOA. Don't put standards on yourselves when they are not needed. No one else wants to volunteer to do the job so those who do will ultimately "hold the power".

Now we also know that the "Wife" is ultimate boss in the home. The issue will be how much "boss" will she be out of it? I dealt with a married couple on HOA. Both very involved. They would switch out who was on the board each year. I'd have to remind myself which one was the board member that year. No one had any issues with them being involved. They just like that someone was involved in the HOA.

Don't over think it and apply "power" to it. Watch your party lines and if feel like crossing it, then pull back.

Former HOA President
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posted:
Henry, please learn to delegate some of the workload to other Board members. At the next Board meeting they can report back as to what they have accomplished.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillD16 on 02/01/2022 11:17 AM
I think that anyone who feels you have “too much power” needs to run for the Board. What, they don’t have time for it? Then it’s like Mencken said: they’re getting the government they deserve.
This, and JohnC46's response are the only ones needed here.

I'd say nationwide it is not uncommon at all for a wife to be President while the husband chairs the Arch Committee (or vice versa). I have seen it myself. No one complained about the wife-husband duo except one un-versed dude. He was not willing to serve on the Board or the Arch committee.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelS56 on 02/01/2022 4:17 PM
Henry, please learn to delegate some of the workload to other Board members.
Henry has been clear for months now that the other directors refuse to take on any meaningful work.

MichaelS56, in such a situation, how does a President "delegate"?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The only advice I have would be that if your wife is on a committee that made a determination about something and that determination is challenged to the board, you should recuse yourself so there is no appearance of unfairness in the challenge.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelS56 on 02/01/2022 4:17 PM
Henry, please learn to delegate some of the workload to other Board members. At the next Board meeting they can report back as to what they have accomplished.

Oh, I've delegated tasks before. Usually the Board volunteer doesn't get the task done and then I either have to take it back or we as a community don't see that improvement be done in the community.

As a volunteer, I don't consider it to be my job to follow up with people and ensure that they do what they say they will do. If they do a good job of a task that they have volunteered for, they are rewarded with another task. If they fail to do a task, I don't assign them another one to fail at.

It's really frustrating. We don't have a lot of volunteers, and the ones that we have are not willing to do a lot more than attend board meetings and reply to handful of e-mails, but we are all volunteers and I will take any time that they give to the Board.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
How many owners are on your ARC, Henry? How many are on your Compliance Committee?

How did you try to recruit members for these committees?

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/02/2022 8:25 AM
How many owners are on your ARC, Henry? How many are on your Compliance Committee?

How did you try to recruit members for these committees?


Kerry,

As you pointed out, we are a Board. Why are you quizzing me about how much effort I put into recruiting for new members, rather than quizzing the other 4 board members who also could help out with this task. Oh wait, they aren't here...

I personally have not put much effort into recruiting members for the various committees. My plate is full with board activities, and I figure someone else can step up to that plate if it is important. It's not really important to me. I do get questioned from time to time about "why don't I put more time into this" or "why don't I put more effort into that" with regards to the Board. But I'm a volunteer and not getting paid, and as a volunteer, I choose to work on the things that interest me the most. I am not a civil servant being paid to serve our homeowners.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your other directors don't post here, so I only am able to ask you. I do not think any board members need to go door-to-door to seek committee members. And I really get that not everything in your HOA interests you personally. I was the same way for the many years I served, until, recently on our board. There are too many possibilities.

How did any owners know there were committees to join?

But someone put committee formation on your board's agenda and your Board voted to establish the committees. And your board vote to accept committee members. Right? Or not?

How many members are on the ARC & on the Compliance Committee? This relates completely to your subject line.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/02/2022 11:15 AM
Your other directors don't post here, so I only am able to ask you. I do not think any board members need to go door-to-door to seek committee members. And I really get that not everything in your HOA interests you personally. I was the same way for the many years I served, until, recently on our board. There are too many possibilities.

How did any owners know there were committees to join?

But someone put committee formation on your board's agenda and your Board voted to establish the committees. And your board vote to accept committee members. Right? Or not?

How many members are on the ARC & on the Compliance Committee? This relates completely to your subject line.

We currently have 3 people on the ACC committee. We had 5 a year ago. The ACC lead (my wife) is planning on sending out a call for volunteers that is distributed to all homeowners, likely through e-mail. As board president, I don't have time to pursue more volunteers so will leave that to her to write up and have distributed. I would be surprised if we get 2 volunteers to add to the committee. I think we will probably just get one additional volunteer from the call for volunteers.

We have not yet approved a compliance committee. Once approved, we will solicit for volunteers through e-mail and regular mail, so every home has a notification that the volunteer opportunity is there. I expect that we will have no volunteers because no one wants their name attached to the subject of compliance. So likely the compliance issues will be handled by my wife and maybe one other board member, and I will probably be involved to some extent.

It is what it is. Others can always step up if they want to help out.
MiaR1 (Illinois)
Posts: 46
Posted:
Negative Nelly here again. Sorry. HenryS7 certainly has every right to feel “offended” by the owners’ perception of he having too much power. But, I question other board members’ responsibility in this perception since they only make themselves available for the meetings, and that’s it, while HenryS7 is full on with every responsibility of: appeasing uninvolved board members, fending off perception of too much power, waiting for other board members to delegate more work load to him by “agreeing” to agenda issues in meetings for him to then implement, but other board members offering no other help whatsoever, even after he delegated to them. It’s much easier to blame the doer whereas the blame lies on the non doers for not keeping up with what they signed up for. Every Board member knows that being on the board requires work. Not everyone can be there all the time, that is why there are 5-7 people. But still, most responsibility mostly falls on 1-2 people on the Board, while others just there for the ride. Again, not generalizing this, but, it’s very prevalent.

I had four others on the Board with me and no amount of requests, delegations, communications worked. But each was very active in schmoozing with owners, to a point of smearing me to owners as controlling and not involving the board members, had a couple of owners inform me about that, which made me question the board members’ intent with me when I was just trying to keep the association together while no one would help me. It’s easier to say oh it’s your fault because you do it all so you enable these non doers. But, think about it differently, the doer is fulfilling his/her fiduciary responsibility to the best of his/her ability while staying within the process of “working with other non doer board members.” At some point you need to finish the work requiring group discussion, but without that group, because the doer also has life outside of board work, which other board members fail to acknowledge .

Keep the non doers in the loop, give them opportunity to engage and help, but, if they repeatedly let you down, then not your fault. And if you have board members like mine, watch out.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
To stick with your original question, Henry. Imo, a compliance committee with only 1 members, maybe 2, and one is your wife and your'er on the board and are president, is a bit too much power for your house hold. I especially think this if the Compliance Committee has decision-making authority.

As pointed out, both you & your wife would need to recuse yourselves in any cases that only affect you two. But still, it'd be far better if the Compliance Committee has three members.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I would not be concerned with your family having too much power. As you alluded to, many times you have to take volunteers from where you find them and being board president or a member of the ACC does not normally carry any real power.

You may have a potential conflict, though. Does your board hear appeals on ACC issues? If so, you should recuse yourself from any appeals decisions while your wife is on the ACC. You may also want to check your state law. In Texas, a spouse of a board member cannot serve on the ACC.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BenA2 on 02/04/2022 8:45 AM
I would not be concerned with your family having too much power. As you alluded to, many times you have to take volunteers from where you find them and being board president or a member of the ACC does not normally carry any real power.

You may have a potential conflict, though. Does your board hear appeals on ACC issues? If so, you should recuse yourself from any appeals decisions while your wife is on the ACC. You may also want to check your state law. In Texas, a spouse of a board member cannot serve on the ACC.

My wife and I have been very careful to avoid conflict of interest. It is not my intent to give myself two voices on discussions when as a homeowner we only have one voice.

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