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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Now, THIS article was quite fascinating - it discusses low effort thinking, how you might recognize it in yourself and how to avoid it. For some (most?) this might explain why things happen the way they do in HOA meetings, whether it's a regular board meeting, annual meeting, special homeowner meeting, etc. Enjoy!

https://corp.smartbrief.com/original/2022/01/are-you-a-low-effort-thinker?utm_source=brief

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Thanks for this.

I fearlessly predict that low effort thinkers will not recognize themselves (Dunning-Kruger effect). I also predict that it's the real thinkers who will read the article.

I remember reading a comment by one of a favorite advice columnist who said there are two kinds of people. One group wants facts, no matter how upsetting they are, and become annoyed or uncomfortable if they feel they're being handed platitudes in place of facts. The other group wants the comforting platitudes and does not want facts that challenge their views, even if those facts are benign or provide advantages to them.

It's likely that people in the second group are the low effort thinkers. I also think this distinction is hard wired to a large extent, and that no amount of encouragement will induce people to change what they are. (Kinda like introverts and extroverts, and I wonder if there is a correlation between temperament and thinking.) Folks either like thinking and knowing stuff, or they don't.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
We had a board member once, who used to drink wine during the board meetings, that was participating in a discussion on picking a new landscaper. Those who are on the board will recognize this is probably the biggest contract of the year for most associations to review. We had three options. His vote, without reading them, was to throw out the low and the high and go with the middle.

:facepalm:
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 01/27/2022 11:12 AM
We had a board member once, who used to drink wine during the board meetings, that was participating in a discussion on picking a new landscaper. Those who are on the board will recognize this is probably the biggest contract of the year for most associations to review. We had three options. His vote, without reading them, was to throw out the low and the high and go with the middle.

:facepalm:

Which one did you ultimately cast your vote for, Henry?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/27/2022 11:25 AM
Posted By HenryS7 on 01/27/2022 11:12 AM
We had a board member once, who used to drink wine during the board meetings, that was participating in a discussion on picking a new landscaper. Those who are on the board will recognize this is probably the biggest contract of the year for most associations to review. We had three options. His vote, without reading them, was to throw out the low and the high and go with the middle.

:facepalm:


Which one did you ultimately cast your vote for, Henry?
[snicker, if I am understanding ND's point correctly, and I may not be]

-- What's the advice on how to communicate effectively with a low effort thinker? For the short run, I think there's no hope. For the longer run, there may be strategies that can help, at least on a mass, osmotic basis.

-- Back when I was a young adult, I thought they used to call high effort thinking, "critical thinking." But hey, new buzz phrases generally translate to more thought on a subject. I am for it.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ND on 01/27/2022 11:25 AM
Posted By HenryS7 on 01/27/2022 11:12 AM
We had a board member once, who used to drink wine during the board meetings, that was participating in a discussion on picking a new landscaper. Those who are on the board will recognize this is probably the biggest contract of the year for most associations to review. We had three options. His vote, without reading them, was to throw out the low and the high and go with the middle.

:facepalm:


Which one did you ultimately cast your vote for, Henry?

At that particular board meeting, the then-president did not call for motions, seconds, and votes. So I never voted. Rather we just nodded heads in agreement. My preference was for a difference vendor, but the majority seemed to like his easy method.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 01/27/2022 10:07 AM
Now, THIS article was quite fascinating - it discusses low effort thinking, how you might recognize it in yourself and how to avoid it. For some (most?) this might explain why things happen the way they do in HOA meetings, whether it's a regular board meeting, annual meeting, special homeowner meeting, etc. Enjoy!

https://corp.smartbrief.com/original/2022/01/are-you-a-low-effort-thinker?utm_source=brief

Thank you for the interesting article!

I have always found that if I respond to homeowner complaints with a detailed, thorough explanation of the purpose and process behind association operations they are either satisfied with the response, or get tired of listening to me and drop the subject. Now I know why!
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:

The term “low effort thinking” is new to me (although I’m seeing it all over today).

I don’t mean to be contrary or grouchy, but it strikes me as a snarky attempt to be polite and mildly witty about calling someone “stupid”. Like “room temperature IQ”.

I don’t really object to it except that I simply don’t think it’s particularly witty. And also I have a lot of background in AI and psychology and there was a time when - for instance - Henry’s example about the person choosing the “middle” bid would have been heralded as a clever heuristic. (I’d personally prefer to read all three bids and attempt to make an informed solution, because it would presumably yield a superior outcome. Except that sometimes researchers have gone Full Scientific Method on such a thing and compared the heuristic with a human expert and discovered that there’s little or no difference). I’ll comment that I (sadly) know more about IBM’s much-touted Watson than I really want to know, and there are aspects of it that could generously be referred to as “low effort thinking”.

Another perspective can be taken from Dr. Robert Cialdini, the author of _Influence: the Psychology of Persuasion_. He makes the point that people *need* to use certain ‘mental shortcuts’ just to get through day to day life. It’s a trade-off: usually it works well - until you run into some jerk who’s figured out how to game the situation.

*shrug* I’m not looking to convince anyone. Just saying, for me: I see it as yet another politically-based shot at the other side.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, I don't think you can say it's politically based because in my experience, I've seen morons on both sides.

I think there's always been an anti-intellectual strain throughout history. People don't trust the folks with "book learning" while those with "book learning" try to do whatever they can to keep the knowledge to themselves. Otherwise, people will read for themselves and realize the "smart" people are really afraid of losing control, money, etc. Today, there's so much knowledge out there and you can get two, three, or four sides (or more) to an issue. I guess that's too much for some people, so they shut down and not think at all. It's easier and if things go to shit, then you can blame the others who knew or claimed they knew.

HOAs remind me of an old Peanuts cartoon where Linus says "I love mankind - it's people I can't stand!" We forget that HOAs are made of, well, people, and there are lots of varieties therein. Some are thoughtful, generous, selfish, narcissistic, curious, narrow-minded and everything in between and so you have to find a way to manage all that. Sometimes it works and other times it's a hot mess - and that's why we come to message boards like this. I've noticed some people come to this website with questions that you can tell they know the answer to, but that's only part of what will be necessary to change things. The next step is standing up and saying something and some folks are too afraid of the possible fallout. It doesn't help that people today are meaner than a nest of rattlesnakes and will take a small thing and blow it up to something that can spin out of control.

I've always said homeownership isn't a spectator sport and part of the problems with HOAs is that people are led to believe they don't have to worry about certain things, that the association will address it, not realizing the association is them and their neighbors, as Melissa likes to say. It takes time and effort to run HOAs effectively (what THAT means depends on who you talk to) and careful thought is part of the price of the ticket. Your decisions won't always work out because life happens, but you do your best, learn from it and move on. That's scary because if you mess up big time, it may cost lots of money, time, and effort to fix. Even so, what you don't want is a simplistic, slapdash approach to serious issues concerning your house and the neighborhood it sits in.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
MY POA's treasurer multiplied monthly expenses by 10 to annualize them in the 2022 budget sent to membership for an approval at the upcoming annual meeting.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 01/28/2022 4:22 PM
MY POA's treasurer multiplied monthly expenses by 10 to annualize them in the 2022 budget sent to membership for an approval at the upcoming annual meeting.

So just shut down for two months.....LOL
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 01/28/2022 4:22 PM
MY POA's treasurer multiplied monthly expenses by 10 to annualize them in the 2022 budget sent to membership for an approval at the upcoming annual meeting.

One budget that we were sent out, prior to me joining the board, estimated the actuals for the year based on the actuals to date in September. Several large capital projects were conducted earlier, so the estimated actual percentage was way over 100%. Overall the budget appeared that no one put time into putting it together...which was probably the case.

I was more than a little miffed.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
My POA's Board just taped up an open, certified letter to send it back to the sender.

A member requested board financial and other records per the chapter of the Texas Property Code that requires POAs to show the requested letters to a member within 10 days of receipt of a certified letter request. The Letter came back opened but taped up with "return to sender" handwritten on it a few days after the tracking showed it was delivered to the Board.

I am not sure if that is low level or high, low-level (sounds like something a kid would do to cover something up - e.g. dog ate my homework.)
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
It's more stupid than anything else. Did someone forget the post office keeps a record of when the letter was delivered??? Or that the fact that the envelope was OPENED tells you someone saw it and had to read it before deciding to tape it up and returning it?

If you sent the letter and it came back like that, hang on to it. You're going to have one helluva piece of evidence if you wind up taking more serious actions. If you're on the board, raise some hell and make sure that homeowner gets the requested records. Whoever did this needs to be sanctioned.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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