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JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
Our condo bylaws are specific on signatures of checks.

* It does not mention wires. It is acceptable to assume that check/wires are interchangeable wording?
* I recently asked the treasurer to check if old board members were still a signature for bank accounts. The answer is that no board is a signature. Only the management company. Is this normal? Considering I bylaws.
* How would you handle payments below the $5k threshold given the bylaws below

* How have others handled internal financial controls?

Bylaws:
----------------------------------------------------
e) The depository of the Association shall be such bank or banks as shall be designated from time to time by the Directors and in which the money of the Association shall be deposited. Withdrawal of money from such accounts shall be only by checks signed by such persons as are authorized by the Directors. The Directors may contract with a Managing Agent to provide that the Managing Agent shall collect assessments from Unit Owners and other moneys of the Association and disburse Association funds pursuant to the terms of such contract; provided however all employees of the Managing Agent handling or responsible for Association funds must be covered by fidelity insurance as set forth below in subparagraph (g)

The signature of two (2) officers of the Association or in the event a Managing Agent is employed, the signatures of at least two employees specified in the contract, shall be required to sign any check in excess of Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000).

Three (3) authorized signatures, one (1) of which must be of an officer of the Association, shall be required for any checks in excess of Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000).

All reserve funds of the Association shall be kept in a separate bank account and all checks written on such account shall be signed by at least two (2) officers of the Association and one (1) employee of the Managing Agent. If there is no Managing Agent, then the signatures of two (2) officers shall be sufficient.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Wiring of money is more rare now a days. You basically have to have the money in the bank and then wire it. Checks can take days to clear. Wire is more immediate funds. Last time I wired money it was when I closed on my house.

Our HOA had similar rules. It was 2 officers and MC/Accountant signature. We had special checks that were made to accommodate this process. Warning those are not that cheap.

If an officer isn't on the signature at the bank, are you still developer controlled? If not, then work that out with the MC. In all honesty, banks typically don't look for all the signatures to process. However, for good record keeping and proof I'd do it anyways.

Former HOA President
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
You should not use checks and wire transfers interchangeably. Your bylaws clearly outline payments are to be made by check. Your bylaws certainly were drafted at a time when wire transfers were very mature banking procedure so I can't see where your bylaw is obsolete.

Your bylaws on signatures are very clear that active board members' signatures are required or those of the property management team on checks. Yes, this is normal.

Payments below $5,000 should be handled directly by the property management once approved by your board of directors.

My board's internal controls are that no board member EVER touches direct cash or issues checks on the HOA accounts. We are required to hire a property manager. The PM's books are audited annually by a third-party accounting firm.

* How have others handled internal financial controls?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I would be very concerned that the funds are fully in control of the MC.

The accounts should be in the name of the Association.
The bank statements should be sent to the HOA not the MC (trust but verify)
The MC can be a signature, but so should all board members.

WHY?

If there is a parting of the ways between the MC and the HOA, it can (won't always happen, can) be an issue and/or delay in the Association getting their hands on their funds.

Sounds like the Board got lazy at some point (could have been a past board).
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Tim,

Some HOAs are designed to fully "firewall" organizational funds from being directly handled by resident board members. It has served our community well since 1986.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 01/27/2022 6:52 PM
Tim,

Some HOAs are designed to fully "firewall" organizational funds from being directly handled by resident board members. It has served our community well since 1986.

I'm sure that they are.
I don't agree with it.

Problems can occur.
Not that they will, but they can.

Trust but verify.

Would you give all of your money to someone and have zero direct control over it?
I personally don't know of anyone that would think that is a good idea for all of there personal funds.

If it's not a good idea for your personal funds, how can it be for business funds.

If it works for you great.
I hope there are never any problems.
I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't hire a company that insists on it.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
No issues in 36 years of the HOA existence. We inherited the by-laws so it's always been our normal operation. In all honesty, it's never the best situation to not possess full control but my experience is that we're likely to encounter unethical and incompetent board members who spend foolishly than have a vetted property management firm steal from the HOA.

We're also a master association, which are nowhere near as nimble as condo or townhome boards. I think that helps as well.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Suppose "checks" is interchangeable with all manner of electronic funds transfer (EFT). (Wiring is one form of EFT. I know: Doh.) Using one of the EFT methods, how does JanineR's HOA insure that at least two officers or two employees sign approval (one way or another) for a transfer over $5000? And so on for transfers over $10,000.

Based on the advice of a CPA at a former COA, I think getting the two (or more) approvals for payments over a certain amount is an important safeguard. I guess a COA/HOA could have two officers fill out a form approving an EFT for a certain amount. But the time it takes to do this is not all that different from getting two signatures on a check. Plus keeping such a form is more record-keeping. Forgery might be a bit easier as well.

As long as vendors are not put off by being paid via the good old-fashioned check, then I think JanineR's HOA/COA should stick with checks.

I'd vote to require two-signature approval on checks between $1000 and $5000, inclusive. Because I think I owe this to owners.

I'd approve a specified director or officer (one of three with check signing authority) signing checks under $1000.

A number of folks chimed in a few weeks ago about managers and MCs signing checks, saying no big deal, since the directors had view-only privileges of the accounts and could monitor withdrawals closely. As long as the MC had a separate bank account for each HOA/COA, I guess I buy this. (Some MC's in the past have commingled the funds of multiple HOAs in one massive checking account. As a layperson, I cannot see the wisdom in working with such an MC. I do not care how much the MC claims commingling funds saves the HOA money by, say, improving efficiency.)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
A number of folks chimed in a few weeks ago about managers and MCs signing checks, saying no big deal, since the directors had view-only privileges of the accounts and could monitor withdrawals closely. As long as the MC had a separate bank account for each HOA/COA, I guess I buy this. (Some MC's in the past have commingled the funds of multiple HOAs in one massive checking account. As a layperson, I cannot see the wisdom in working with such an MC. I do not care how much the MC claims commingling funds saves the HOA money by, say, improving efficiency.)

This is how we operate. Our MC signs all checks. They use the same bank for their accounts but each account has a separate account number. Our MC can only make deposits to our reserve account. They can not withdraw from nor make transfers from.

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