Board Responsibility on Racisim

JM20 (Florida)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Our HOA Manager texted racist statements and also fined violators that were not his friends. Talks of suggesting residents put burning crosses in their yards etc... It was very bad and the African American family sued and received 200,000. settlement from our ins. company. Question the board received copies of the racist texts before they became public and was given the opportunity to act to remove this bad actor from the position of HOA president but did not act in any way.
Instead they put him on the fining committee where he continued to discriminate. Did the HOA board have a fiduciary responsibility to act to vote to remove the president once they had multiple screen shots of this persons activities?
CASE: 8:21=cv-01913-SDM-JSS US District Court Tampa

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

JM20, I am sorry that anyone at your HOA would speak of putting burning crosses in anyone's yard, especially the yard of a Black family. Here is what I know:

The courts and HUD have often interpreted the federal Fair Housing statute to require that HOAs take steps to stop actions, which the Board knows about, that create an environment that is hostile on the basis of membership in one of the protected categories (race, sex, religion, national origin, ethnicity, disability and familial status).

When a HOA Board fails to take such actions, a Court may make a finding of liability.

You say the HOA insurer already paid out a lot to the family. I would have thought that this settlement would have covered actions by the Board related to the precipitating event. One would have to see the terms of the settlement to comment intellilgently.

If after the settlement, the HOA through its agents (like the Fining Committee) continued conduct that is unlawful under the Fair Housing Act, then this should be the stuff of another formal complaint to the HOA and probably, HUD.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Two observations, one you mention HOA Manager and HOA president. Are they the same person? Second, why would the insurance pay a settlement? As I homeowner, I shouldn't have to pay for such an act, apparently condoned by the Board.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Put the legal issues aside for a moment. How could any board member with even an ounce of decency not act to remove this person from the role of president? The fact that this question even has to be asked is alarming.

JM20 (Florida)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Yes Manager/President are the same person. I also agree that the actions by the president were not within the scope of a board member and the homeowners should not have to pay for that. Agree?

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

I suspect that it was the director's and officer's policy that paid out. It's there to protect the officers from personal liability for something that the HOA did. Unfortunately in this case, if it was an officer (or officers) that did this it's a shame that the policy had to pay for such awful behavior.

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

To be clear, the homeowners ARE the HOA. If the HOA owes money, the homeowners are responsible for paying it, whether they agree or not.

If the insurance company paid out $200,000 then the insurance company and, presumably, the HOA board believed that, at minimum, there was a good chance a court would hold the HOA liable. Since your insurance company paid it, the homeowners are only on the hook for the potential higher insurance premiums.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JM20 on 12/22/2021 10:28 AM
Yes Manager/President are the same person. I also agree that the actions by the president were not within the scope of a board member and the homeowners should not have to pay for that. Agree?

Insurance is paying for the mistake.

One could argue any increase in premiums that results is not fair to owners. But I do not see a Court saying, for example, that an individual director or the board itself should pay for their mistake here. Courts hesitate mightily to take such actions. Why? Because then no one would want to serve on these HOA Boards.

I believe an owner's main recourse by far is (1) to elect a new board; (2) document any acts that appear to violate the Fair Housing Act; and (3) complain to HUD as needed. HUD is slow and does not always get it right, but HUD does tend to put HOAs on notice.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Yes, the Board had a fiduciary obligation to remove the president from that position. IMO, they also should have fired him as property manager. That the Board permitted the person b to be both is careless an ignorant decisionmaking.

Recall this board or elect a new one if your elections are soon. Pressure the Board to fire the so-called property manager. Is certified at all as an HOA pretty manager??/

What size is your HOA, JM?

Yes your premiums will go up and Owners will be stuck with the increase.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Yes, this is the Board's responsibility.

Note that this goes beyond the BOD and reaches into neighbor to neighbor disputes also. HOA volunteer BOD's have to become involved at the slightest hint of protected class issues when before they may have just been classified as neighbor to neighbor.

We had one recently. Attorney wrote a cease and desist to parties involved. Next step is mediation if it gets that far.

Once the BOD is aware of a situation, best they contact their attorney to protect the HOA.

https://hoalaw.tinnellylaw.com/hud-establishes-rules-regarding-discriminatory-activity-liability-fair-housing-act-will-directly-impact-homeowners-associations/

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

So if the majority of the Board either side with the HOA president or don't want to anger the person, what chance does an association have to change this egregious error in judgement.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

With about half the country voting for Trump, this Board's behavior is not a surprise.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Yes the BOD has a fiduciary duty. The BOD should have immediately terminated the PMC contract for cause and The remaining BOD should have immediately held an executive session to remove him as a BOD member. The homeowners should have at the same time began the process to remove him as a director. Now Y'all's are stuck paying higher D&O premiums which means your assessments are going up.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 12/22/2021 10:44 AM

Posted By JM20 on 12/22/2021 10:28 AM
Yes Manager/President are the same person. I also agree that the actions by the president were not within the scope of a board member and the homeowners should not have to pay for that. Agree?

Insurance is paying for the mistake.

One could argue any increase in premiums that results is not fair to owners. But I do not see a Court saying, for example, that an individual director or the board itself should pay for their mistake here. Courts hesitate mightily to take such actions. Why? Because then no one would want to serve on these HOA Boards.

I believe an owner's main recourse by far is (1) to elect a new board; (2) document any acts that appear to violate the Fair Housing Act; and (3) complain to HUD as needed. HUD is slow and does not always get it right, but HUD does tend to put HOAs on notice.

Lawyers always go after the deeper pockets, Agreed, a lawsuit should have been filed against the individual, but their HO policy lawyers would have argued and filed motions to go after the D&O policy.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Need some more details before making a full evaluation/advice. Is the HOA still developer owned or do the membership own it? How does your HOA vote out board members? Is it the board that kicks out an officer or is it a majority of the owners? Seems need to put that into perspective BEFORE blaming the board of inaction. If it was up to the owners to do it, why did they not? If it was up to the board, why did anyone not go to a board meeting requesting it be put on the agenda?

It's easy to say that someone didn't do something but not when realize it was up to you and your neighbors to have.

Here in the south there are two types of "racism". 1 is that it's typically older people whom were raised that way. They lived during the times where separate water fountains/schools etc... It's not out of any kind of hatred toward anyone. Not making excuses for them. Putting it into perspective of why a board member may come across as "racist". Just a little correction/education usually does the trick. Had an older lady on our board who used the term "colored". Now a days that comes off racist. When she was raised that is what things were labelled and people of color were called. It was just her phrasing.

The 2nd type is the hateful ignorant type that has no excuse. Sounds like the type that may have been involved here. Now that type of person really does need to be punished and taken to the shed... Sounds like they got sued and now it's up to the rest of the HOA to take them to the shed...

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 12/22/2021 12:39 PM

Lawyers always go after the deeper pockets, Agreed, a lawsuit should have been filed against the individual, but their HO policy lawyers would have argued and filed motions to go after the D&O policy.

Unless one has money to throw away, a lawsuit against the individual would likely have been a waste of time.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Augustin,
I usually appreciate your inciteful comments. Your last political comment was IMO was also racist. I am not a member of this Blog for Political thoughts. Please keep them to yourself.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 12/22/2021 1:31 PM
Augustin,
I usually appreciate your inciteful comments. Your last political comment was IMO was also racist. I am not a member of this Blog for Political thoughts. Please keep them to yourself.

No.

Someone here remarked that he is surprised that the OP's Board would not toss out this President who encourage cross burning on Black people's lawns.

My remark is intended to remind that Boards who promote an environment hostile on the race should come as no surprise given the surge of White Supremacy in this country.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

I should add: That a massive number of HOATalk veterans here consistently recognize, condemn and warn against violations of the Fair Housing Act, possibly setting aside whatever their personal beliefs are, represents the best of this forum.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 12/22/2021 1:31 PM
Augustin,
I usually appreciate your inciteful comments. Your last political comment was IMO was also racist. I am not a member of this Blog for Political thoughts. Please keep them to yourself.

I was a Republican for 45 years until November 2016. In 2013, my brother-in-law told me most Republicans are racist and I stopped talking to him for two years. Since 2015, things have gotten worse in this country and it ain't getting better.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I would want the President and PM tarred and feathered then the PM fired and the President recalled.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 12/22/2021 2:06 PM
I would want the President and PM tarred and feathered then the PM fired and the President recalled.

See? The veterans here do not mess around.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 12/22/2021 2:06 PM
I would want the President and PM tarred and feathered then the PM fired and the President recalled.

The HOA Manager and HOA President are one and the same.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 12/22/2021 2:12 PM

Posted By JohnC46 on 12/22/2021 2:06 PM
I would want the President and PM tarred and feathered then the PM fired and the President recalled.

The HOA Manager and HOA President are one and the same.

My bad. I forgot that when posting. I will order less tar and feathers.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Most boards have the power to kick an officer out of that position, e.g., Prez, V.P Sec'y, treasurer. Most Board do not have the power to kick the person off of the board. The person remains a director until an election or recall by owners. Thus, when LetA says the Board should hav kicked him of the boar, LetA was mistaken.

Now, I do agree that if this Board still permits that man to be the PM, it is not practicing its obligation of loyalty to the assn. Their non-action might even be called "negligence." So,

There are many good books about racism in the south. I wouldn't take Melissa's discussion as gospel.

I don't see, Pat, how this is anything like a neighbor/neighbor issue.

So, JM, what are you Owners going to do about this situation?

(Btw, our D&O insurance covered our commercial director who has a permanent seat on our Board of 7 due to the comecial Owner owning about 5% of our Assn. The commercial owners was/IS our developer. They director stalled the rest of the board with sweet talk literally for a few years to avoid a construction defect action. But we launched one and collected a decent settlement. We also got a $40,000 settlement from the director, who admitted no wrongdoing. D&O insurance covered him. Our rates went up 5k/ann. for 5 years. So our Assn. netted $15k from insurance.)

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/22/2021 2:30 PM
Most boards have the power to kick an officer out of that position, e.g., Prez, V.P Sec'y, treasurer. Most Board do not have the power to kick the person off of the board.

Just saying: In this special case; if the President/Director/PM Manager admitted to sending the texts the OP described; and if I were on this Board; then I would motion the Board to consult the HOA attorney about lawful tactics to compel the director to resign. E.g. a Special Meeting to explain why the insurance premiums might be going up; that the Board condemns the actions of this director; that the Board hereby formally censures this Director; that the Board has relieved this director of all duties except the ones the law allows; and that the Board is sorry this Director will not resign.

For the capitalists among us: Idiots like the one the OP described are costing all of us too much money and time.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

"For the capitalists among us: Idiots like the one the OP described are costing all of us too much money and time."

Well I'll be damned. I had no idea that non capitalists couldn't be racist jerks.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/22/2021 12:51 PM
Need some more details before making a full evaluation/advice. Is the HOA still developer owned or do the membership own it? How does your HOA vote out board members? Is it the board that kicks out an officer or is it a majority of the owners? Seems need to put that into perspective BEFORE blaming the board of inaction. If it was up to the owners to do it, why did they not? If it was up to the board, why did anyone not go to a board meeting requesting it be put on the agenda?

It's easy to say that someone didn't do something but not when realize it was up to you and your neighbors to have.

Here in the south there are two types of "racism". 1 is that it's typically older people whom were raised that way. They lived during the times where separate water fountains/schools etc... It's not out of any kind of hatred toward anyone. Not making excuses for them. Putting it into perspective of why a board member may come across as "racist". Just a little correction/education usually does the trick. Had an older lady on our board who used the term "colored". Now a days that comes off racist. When she was raised that is what things were labelled and people of color were called. It was just her phrasing.

The 2nd type is the hateful ignorant type that has no excuse. Sounds like the type that may have been involved here. Now that type of person really does need to be punished and taken to the shed... Sounds like they got sued and now it's up to the rest of the HOA to take them to the shed...

First, I agree with LetA - this board member should be canned, the association needs a new property manager - and probably a new board as well. No one had the stones to stop this person cold and it cost the Association $200K. You'd think in these days of smart phones and computers where things hit the web as soon as you snap the picture or hit "send", people would have some decorum. HGate whoever you like in your own home, but when you come outside among grown people, shut your mouth and behave - or someone will shut it for you. Smacking people in the pocketbook is a great first step.

As for the types of racism, you need to be mindful of James R.Crow, Esq. These are the folks who are more dangerous than the old biddy who says colored and the hateful ones like those idiots in Charlottesville with the Tiki torches. James R. Crow and his crew (including Jane S. Crow) like to smile in the face of people of color while stabbing them in the back at the same time - and then they act surprised when you howl in pain. James Crow wears fancy suits and what makes them dangerous is that they make policies that can take decades to undo. This is why you have redlining, voter suppression, environmental racism (yes, that's a thing) and much more.

And let's not forget that part of the reason we have HOAs is because people wanted to live in neighborhoods that excluded folks who weren't the same race, religion, nationality, etc. That could be part of the reason this board hasn't done what's appropriate - the board member/property manager said out loud what other people were thinking and agreeing with. Talking about all that is a whole 'nother conversation, so I'll leave it at that.

I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.- James Baldwin

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It should be noted that President Lincoln was the FIRST Republican President. Anyone that wants to bring politics into their racism I like to point that out to them. Racism isn't political. It's personal.

I live in the south. Racism is a complicated ugly thing. Most people here are very much against racism and rally against it. Even the city known for the home of the KKK decorates the city in Orange bows. The orange bows represent anti-racism stance. The KKK is still holds rallies but have to have permits. They last about an hour or two and they are gone. There are probably just as many if not more demonstrators standing around the rallies than in it. It's pretty sad and laughable at this point.

Recently, I had to do an event in another state/city. While there I noticed at the courthouse there was a table with some old white guys dressed up in Union soldier uniforms. A few motorcycle looking dudes. There was a sign out front that had "Check your heritage". No one and I mean NO ONE was going there. It was to the point kind of felt bad for these guys. They looked so miserable. No one caused a scene or said anything. It was a sad reminder that this still exists in this world.

Former HOA President

JM20 (Florida)
Posts: 6

Posted:

More than half but thats another story

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/22/2021 2:30 PM

Now, I do agree that if this Board still permits that man to be the PM, it is not practicing its obligation of loyalty to the assn. Their non-action might even be called "negligence." So,

One would need to check the contract (if one exists) with the PM.
One could argue (and I would agree) that if the PMs actions caused legal judgement against the association that it would be breach of some clause in the contract. However, one would need to read the contract to be sure. It's possible that the Board might need to wait until the contract ends.

I also agree that the individual should not have been removed as president and not placed on any committee. However, if there are not enough volunteers, it's possible that the board had limited options.

Without being at the board meetings (as the minutes likely won't show) one simply doesn't know if anyone on the board tried to stop things or not. Lets not paint with a broad brush brush. Instead look at the details and facts. Obviously, the end results were horrible and should not have happened. However, the details and facts may disclose that some tired but were unsuccessful.

JM20 (Florida)
Posts: 6

Posted:

After the lawsuit our insurance company cancelled and our premium went up. our community is 300 homes. There is another community member who was continuously harassed for over 6 years by the board and this guy. Word is he hired the original law firm of the other family and planning a lawsuit as well.

JM20 (Florida)
Posts: 6

Posted:

I totally agree but this (now past) was the king of BS, you have never seen any thing like it.

JM20 (Florida)
Posts: 6

Posted:

The owners are requesting that the HOA board step down and sign agreements to never be involved in hoa again. Short of that we are standing behind the other community member who was continuously harassed for over 6 years by the board and this guy he hired the original law firm of the other family and planning a lawsuit as well. Its horrible what is happening to our community because of 1 toxic person

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

True harrassment is a something that should be handled by the Police and NOT the HOA. The HOA doesn't provide protections for one's criminal behavior. Instead of suing and running the HOA's insurance bill up, stand behind the person calling the police. Be that person's witness. Show up to the court house when this person has to face the judge for the harrassment charges.

Overall STOP keeping the situaionn "In house". This is am "Outhouse" issue that the police should be involved in. Your not going to fix this issue by voting or allowing them to be insured by the HOA's insurance policy.

At some point everyone including the person whom is being harrassed needs to go to the LAW and bring up some charges. Police can create charges. They can't dismiss them. That will be up to the court to do that. Right now this racist person has ya fooled under a vail of HOA protection. The reality is criminal actions are NOT HOA's responsibility. It is not set up for that or it's purpose.

So you all need to get together, support them for calling the police on the person. Help them get a restraining order against this person if needed. It's time to go after the person and NOT the HOA for this behavior.

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I hope that board displays some sort of honor and step down - the people who elected them have lost confidence in them, and once that's gone, it's difficult to do anything constructive for the community.

If they don't step down, I think you and like minded neighbors should check your documents to see what they say about special homeowner meetings and recalling board members. Usually a recall done during a special meeting, so you'll need to ensure that you call for it properly and have a group of people ready to step up and step in If you succeed. Good luck to you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JM20 on 12/23/2021 6:34 AM

The owners are requesting that the HOA board step down and sign agreements to never be involved in hoa again.

Requesting is simply that, a request.

Recalling, to make it happen, requires petitioning the board for a special general membership meeting.

Additionally, are there individuals ready and willing to serve?
If not, then it wouldn't be prudent for the existing board to step down as prior to stepping down they would need to appoint others to fill their future vacancy or petition the court for a receiver. Worst case, the board steps down and the whole thing is ran by the PM that caused the problem in the first place.

My advise, quit requesting and take action of gathering a slate of candidates and petition for a special meeting of the membership to recall and replace the board. At the very least, start gathering a slate of candidates to run against the existing board members at the next election.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/23/2021 6:48 AM
True harrassment is a something that should be handled by the Police and NOT the HOA. The HOA doesn't provide protections for one's criminal behavior. Instead of suing and running the HOA's insurance bill up, stand behind the person calling the police. Be that person's witness. Show up to the court house when this person has to face the judge for the harrassment charges.

Overall STOP keeping the situaionn "In house". This is am "Outhouse" issue that the police should be involved in. Your not going to fix this issue by voting or allowing them to be insured by the HOA's insurance policy.

At some point everyone including the person whom is being harrassed needs to go to the LAW and bring up some charges. Police can create charges. They can't dismiss them. That will be up to the court to do that. Right now this racist person has ya fooled under a vail of HOA protection. The reality is criminal actions are NOT HOA's responsibility. It is not set up for that or it's purpose.

So you all need to get together, support them for calling the police on the person. Help them get a restraining order against this person if needed. It's time to go after the person and NOT the HOA for this behavior.

These are FHA and HUD statutes, not local police enforcement issues. The police can't enforce if an owner refuses rent to someone. They also can't act if an employer doesn't pay an employee earned wages or if an employee is sexually harassed. There are other avenues for enforcement for those issues and this is one of them. Not the local police department.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PatJ1 on 12/23/2021 7:21 AM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/23/2021 6:48 AM
True harrassment is a something that should be handled by the Police and NOT the HOA. The HOA doesn't provide protections for one's criminal behavior. Instead of suing and running the HOA's insurance bill up, stand behind the person calling the police. Be that person's witness. Show up to the court house when this person has to face the judge for the harrassment charges.

Overall STOP keeping the situaionn "In house". This is am "Outhouse" issue that the police should be involved in. Your not going to fix this issue by voting or allowing them to be insured by the HOA's insurance policy.

At some point everyone including the person whom is being harrassed needs to go to the LAW and bring up some charges. Police can create charges. They can't dismiss them. That will be up to the court to do that. Right now this racist person has ya fooled under a vail of HOA protection. The reality is criminal actions are NOT HOA's responsibility. It is not set up for that or it's purpose.

So you all need to get together, support them for calling the police on the person. Help them get a restraining order against this person if needed. It's time to go after the person and NOT the HOA for this behavior.

These are FHA and HUD statutes, not local police enforcement issues. The police can't enforce if an owner refuses rent to someone. They also can't act if an employer doesn't pay an employee earned wages or if an employee is sexually harassed. There are other avenues for enforcement for those issues and this is one of them. Not the local police department.

If an employee is sexually harassed this is very much a police matter.

Sexual harassment is illegal.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (“Title VII”) makes it illegal for employers to allow anyone to be sexually harassed at work by anyone else, regardless of sex, gender, or sexual orientation.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Also wanted to expand a bit. If your HOA can not prove criminal behavior on this board member's part, then the HOA insurance can still "protect" them. However, if it can be proven by police reports, restraining orders, convictions, or charges against them, insurance most likely can't protect them as an individual. It still protects the HOA as a "whole" but not by the sum of it's parts. This person should lose their board protections.

It ONLY works if this person follows the law of the land and not of the HOA. Get charges filed. Otherwise doomed to keep repeating this scenerio over and over again.

Plus we are assuming this truly is a case of racism and not percieved. Like there is actual proof enough to have caused them to have won the lawsuit. Otherwise it can become a more complicated mess. It happens.

I worked with a woman whom often just walked off the production line to go talk on her phone. Let the product pile up that we had to step in to do her job. Plus some of it fell off. They fired her. However, she came back with a "racial" lawsuit and came back to work. Keep in mind she is also the same person who went around asking for donations for someone's birthday and kept most of the money. (Proven). So I can also see the other side if this is viewed as a different situation by the board than rest of the members. The situation from our side was she was a terrible worker who stole money. The company had to react as she was a potential racial lawsuit.

The more details from both sides of the story need to be known so know which direction need to go in.

Former HOA President

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Pat. This is HARRASSMENT which is ILLEGAL criminal behavior. It has nothing to do with rent or home ownership. It has to do with criminal behavior. Which is a charge the police can charge someone with.

Former HOA President

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Sexual assault is a police matter. Harassment under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is not handled by the local police even though it is illegal. A lawsuit would need to be filed against the offender in state or Federal court.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

No. Harassment is criminal behavior. I know first hand it is. Had to get someone for "harassing communications". Had a stranger call me on the phone threatening my life. Long story of non-stop phone calls and stalking. Police located him and those were the charges they could use against him.

It may not be "harassment" in those word terms but it is charges the police can charge someone with. Have seen it several times from people whom acted in such a way to cause threats to someone by harm or death. Now a days it's more like "Terrorist Threat". Which this could not be the term the police would use.

Sexual assault is very much different that sexual harassment or discrimination. One is a crime. The other is handled by HR at your company.

If this person is sending threatening tweets or posts, then it is criminal. No need to keep standing behind the HOA for this. It's NOT the entire members needing to pay and protect this person with their dues.

Former HOA President

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 12/23/2021 7:27 AM

Posted By PatJ1 on 12/23/2021 7:21 AM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/23/2021 6:48 AM
True harrassment is a something that should be handled by the Police and NOT the HOA. The HOA doesn't provide protections for one's criminal behavior. Instead of suing and running the HOA's insurance bill up, stand behind the person calling the police. Be that person's witness. Show up to the court house when this person has to face the judge for the harrassment charges.

Overall STOP keeping the situaionn "In house". This is am "Outhouse" issue that the police should be involved in. Your not going to fix this issue by voting or allowing them to be insured by the HOA's insurance policy.

At some point everyone including the person whom is being harrassed needs to go to the LAW and bring up some charges. Police can create charges. They can't dismiss them. That will be up to the court to do that. Right now this racist person has ya fooled under a vail of HOA protection. The reality is criminal actions are NOT HOA's responsibility. It is not set up for that or it's purpose.

So you all need to get together, support them for calling the police on the person. Help them get a restraining order against this person if needed. It's time to go after the person and NOT the HOA for this behavior.

These are FHA and HUD statutes, not local police enforcement issues. The police can't enforce if an owner refuses rent to someone. They also can't act if an employer doesn't pay an employee earned wages or if an employee is sexually harassed. There are other avenues for enforcement for those issues and this is one of them. Not the local police department.

If an employee is sexually harassed this is very much a police matter.

Sexual harassment is illegal.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (“Title VII”) makes it illegal for employers to allow anyone to be sexually harassed at work by anyone else, regardless of sex, gender, or sexual orientation.

Local and state police have no jurisdiction to enforce federal law, even federal criminal law. If there is not a state or local law, they cannot enforce it. They also cannot enforce any civil law unless the law itself gives them authority. This is why it is very common for police to say, "sorry, we cannot help you because it is a civil matter."

Of course every state has different laws so a state could have anti-discrimination laws but it would be unusual for it to be a crime (other than hate crimes which involve committing another crime with hate as the motivation) so police will usually not get involved.

My source is 23 years in law enforcement.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The OP said the text involved "putting a burning cross" in their yard". Which is a criminal act and a hate crime. That is why said to call the police on this matter to press charges. Atleast get a restraining order for the person who is being attacked. This is a criminal matter. It can only help the civil case if one was filed to show criminal charges involved.

This isn't unlike the Simpson case. He was tried as a criminal for murder. He was then sued in civil court for his actions resulting in a wrongful death. Wasn't convicted criminally but was in civil court. It was that case that helped win the civil case as an example.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Melissa, there was NO burning cross on the Black family's lawn. The board prez/PM are the same person, Tim. Hd to imagine what that contract looks like.

It IS an HOA matter because the board's job is to protect the HOA's assets/comon areas. A board turning a blind eye to its president/PM's disgusting actions caused the HOA to lose its insurance and its premiums to go up. The board simply did not protect the HOA's actions. With others get a replacement Boar lined up and get rid of the current one.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

AGAIN I am NOT saying it's NOT an HOA issue. It just can't be resolved by the HOA without additional criminal steps being taken. The HOA can't insure a board member with a history of criminal behavior or proof of their practices. That is why charges or a restraining order should be taken if the President does anything toward this person. Unless the HOA wants to continue to turn a blind eye and do nothing.

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/23/2021 7:53 AM
No. Harassment is criminal behavior.

Harassment can be either criminal, civil, both or neither.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It is also NONE of them if it goes unreported... There has to be a record somewhere be it a police report, a conviction, charges, or tangible proof it is happening. Otherwise, it doesn't exist or be brought into the conversation. You can't just blurt out in court "I was harassed". It doesn't work that way. Have to have a recorded history.

A text or letter doesn't count if it isn't legally recorded somewhere. Having gone through harassment situation it's not that simple to prove or for people to believe you. That is why I am saying it needs to be recorded and police reports made. Otherwise it is your word against theirs. Guess what you don't have anything to prove what you say is true even if it's known to be.

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Enough of the lawyer playing. Tar and feather that racist.