Board member fraud?

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Hi again, I have been on our current board for 1 month (someone resigned and I was voted in) and a previous president/ current board member is requesting her penalties to be waved.

This is what I have found. About 4 years ago when this person was president she convinced another elderly lady (in her 90s) to rent out her parking spots. They would split the money 50/50.

Is this fraud in CA?

Other details.
The owner has since passed away.
The board at the time may have approved this.
The owner wrote a signed letter that the president came to her and wanted to split 50/50.
The money was paid to the owner who then gave the previous president her cut. (No paper trail)

The board after the previous president put fines on the previous president (now board member) of 1200.00 to pay back the money she made off parking.

Elections are coming up and this member is again. (Same crazy lady from my last post)

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

The previous president and current board member is running. Requesting her fines be removed.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

If the parking spaces were deeded through the CCRs, it is well within their rights to rent out the space(s) to another owner or tenant. The person in their 90's may not be able to drive and has no cars, so what's to stop them to making a few bucks on the side. And they spilt 50/50 with the president. Where is the fraud?

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

I agree with Max. Our parking spaces are assigned and I would see not issue for someone without a car arranging for use of the spot with another.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

I am wondering why the previous board went after her for the 1,200.00 and what they have to stand on because the board member is asking to have a hearing for fees to be reversed.

Current rules state: Owners and tenants vehicles may only be parked in the spaces assigned to such owners and tenants may have have to make their own arrangements to park any extra vehicles (for which they do not have an assigned, exclusive-use space) outside of the project.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Adding - You stated that the president was fined $1200.00. Under what governing document and section was she fined under? Now that the owner has passed, who would you return the money to if the fine was paid now?

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

I should add, I don't see why a owner couldn't rent their spot. Question is should the board member also make money off it just by introducing the people? Is there a conflict of interest? There are several signs in the building that ask owners to contact the MC if interested in renting their spots.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

The fine is because the money would have gone to the HOA for helping the owner rent her spot. But the president decided to take the 50% and not tell anyone.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

What are they saying the 1,200 is for? Little confused. Did they fine her for this? Is it a recoup of some kind of expense? Not sure where the HOA would stand on that as it was a deal between her and the lady not with the HOA.

It sounds like more along the lines of "spite" than reality. It just sounds wrong so it must be wrong. I don't really see why this would be an issue as both parties benefitted. Plus it doesn't sound like it involved the HOA in depriving it of any funds.

Former HOA President

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 10:25 AM
I should add, I don't see why a owner couldn't rent their spot. Question is should the board member also make money off it just by introducing the people? Is there a conflict of interest? There are several signs in the building that ask owners to contact the MC if interested in renting their spots.

This is no different than a real estate broker getting paid to bring a buyer and seller together. As long as one person did not mislead the other and the two came to an agreement, there is nothing illegal or fraudulent.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 10:25 AM
I should add, I don't see why a owner couldn't rent their spot. Question is should the board member also make money off it just by introducing the people? Is there a conflict of interest? There are several signs in the building that ask owners to contact the MC if interested in renting their spots.

I think it's unethical at best. In addition, it may run afoul of your governing docs if they prohibit board members from using their position to profit (I assume there is since she was fined, but it's possible that previous board members overstepped).

If she'd simply introduced the people, I'd have said it's fine since apparently your community does this.

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 10:25 AM
I should add, I don't see why a owner couldn't rent their spot. Question is should the board member also make money off it just by introducing the people? Is there a conflict of interest? There are several signs in the building that ask owners to contact the MC if interested in renting their spots.

If the board member used their position to make a profit, then there is a conflict of interest. If they were acting as just another member and their position did not help them, I don't see a problem.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 10:28 AM
The fine is because the money would have gone to the HOA for helping the owner rent her spot. But the president decided to take the 50% and not tell anyone.

Do the CCRs have a provision for the HOA making income as described? If not, this is a problem. In particular, I think it may be a tax problem.

DavidP29, please continue elaborating and answering all questions.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why is the HOA being paid or involved in finding a parking spot for a member? What is the relationship between the HOA and ownership of the parking spaces? It's not exactly clear. Can you quote something from the rules?

It just doesn't make sense. If an owner is designated a parking space, they aren't going use it, why can't they "rent" that space out? Plus if someone else says "Hey I will help handle that for you for 50 % of the rent" is this any of the HOA's business? Are they saying the parking spaces are "Common area" that one can't rent out and the HOA does?

I don't think getting an overall justification for the HOA to fine and/or what the fraud is?

Former HOA President

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Correct, governing docs prohibit board members from using their position to profit

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I don't see where they used their position to profit. They did not profit off the HOA by using any HOA money. They "profitted" by virtue of helping a member/neighbor rent out their open parking spot. One that I don't see the HOA as owning or paying for.

Former HOA President

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

I think fraud is wrong word. Unethical, conflict of interest, knowing the MC helps ppl rent spaces and the HOA takes a cut.

I don't see an issue on why the owner cannot rent their space. Only language in our docs is the one provided before saying owners/tenants must park in their spots. I know the HOA makes money on renting other spots, I see it on our balance sheet. Still learning what is going on with previous deals and how the board worked

I think the previous president saw an opportunity to make money and instead of having the owner and renter contact the MC, she took the cut the HOA normally would get.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I looked at two RV Resorts in Indio, California which are both controlled by HOA's. They have a policy that the owner can rent their space when not in use and the HOA gets 40% of the rental fee.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 11:01 AM

I don't see an issue on why the owner cannot rent their space. Only language in our docs is the one provided before saying owners/tenants must park in their spots. I know the HOA makes money on renting other spots, I see it on our balance sheet. Still learning what is going on with previous deals and how the board worked

By far my bigger concern would be whether the HOA itself is committing tax fraud and maybe more by accepting income for helping people rent their parking spaces.

Thad, do you understand that the HOA is a nonprofit under the laws of California? Do you understand what 'nonprofit' here means?

If I were on this Board, I would raise this issue at a board meeting and ask whoever does the HOA taxes and also the HOA attorney if the income the HOA is receiving, to help rent out parking spaces, is allowed under the law.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Honestly guys this place is a mess. The previous president PP (current board member)and current president CP hate each other. The PP went after the CP's parking spot years ago with HOA lawyer for a long story too long to explain.

The previous treasurer never filled anything. The last 2 years of Docs sit in a box. We rely on the MC for all statements and Financials. They only post PDFs online. We don't have any system for tracking vendor payments or expenses like Quick Books. Everything is manual. And the CA Refit is coming due- reserve funds are low and will need to do a loan for special assessment.

Sorry for the venting.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I have several HOA's that rent out parking spaces for $25.00-$50.00 a space. HOA's make money (interest) on savings account, that is profit. Excessive income may or may not be taxed.

As I cited in another post, "done for the greater good of the HOA".

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 11:29 AM
Honestly guys this place is a mess. The previous president PP (current board member)and current president CP hate each other. The PP went after the CP's parking spot years ago with HOA lawyer for a long story too long to explain.

The previous treasurer never filled anything. The last 2 years of Docs sit in a box. We rely on the MC for all statements and Financials. They only post PDFs online. We don't have any system for tracking vendor payments or expenses like Quick Books. Everything is manual. And the CA Refit is coming due- reserve funds are low and will need to do a loan for special assessment.

Sorry for the venting.

What do you use an MC for?

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Fannie was fine with the HOA renting out parking spots when I bought 2 years ago. As long as it was under a certain % of total income they would approve the loan.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Building issues and maintenance. Vendor liason and getting quotes. Management of financial and CPA.

The owners call the MC for any issues instead of the board. A large building built in 1970s with 72 units that must be managed.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 11:01 AM
I I see it on our balance sheet.

Just an FYI, income for parking will show up on an income/expense report, not the balance sheet.
If, and this is a big IF, why would you need to use Quickbooks to track vendor payments and expenses. This is what the MC should be doing and providing financial reports including bank statements on a monthly basis.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

They do that. Although I recently was provided a invoice to pay from the MC for a different property. The previous treasurer did this has happened before.

I also like to dig into the details. The project manager in me.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I see this different then a car parking space. In the case of a car parking space, I see no reason for the PM to be involved not the HOA get a cut.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 9:36 AM

Other details.
The owner has since passed away.
The board at the time may have approved this.
The owner wrote a signed letter that the president came to her and wanted to split 50/50.
The money was paid to the owner who then gave the previous president her cut. (No paper trail)

Given the above rather shaky proof of any wrongdoing; including my doubts that the HOA should either have a monopoly on helping others with parking spaces or should be a able to decree that only the HOA can help and bill for it; and all else posted by the OP, then if I were on this HOA's Board I would vote for the HOA to return any money the HOA demanded of the accused director for alleged, and thoroughly unproven, wrongdoing.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 9:36 AM

Other details.
The owner has since passed away.
The board at the time may have approved this.
The owner wrote a signed letter that the president came to her and wanted to split 50/50.
The money was paid to the owner who then gave the previous president her cut. (No paper trail)

Given the above rather shaky proof of any wrongdoing; including my doubts that the HOA should either have a monopoly on helping others with parking spaces or should be a able to decree that only the HOA can help and bill for it; and all else posted by the OP, then if I were on this HOA's Board I would vote for the HOA to return any money the HOA demanded of the accused director for alleged, and thoroughly unproven, wrongdoing.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 11:42 AM
Fannie was fine with the HOA renting out parking spots when I bought 2 years ago. As long as it was under a certain % of total income they would approve the loan.

No way do I believe that the Fannie Mae loan program looks at this kind of detail.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

(I too doubt F. Mae cares about this topic)

Who David owns the parking spaces. Ours are deeded to Owners. If an Owner wants to rent out their space, they may so long as their "tenant" lives in our condo building. If someone asks me to help her find a tenant for her space and she would pay me $x, there is no problem. To my mind, it makes no difference if that "helper" is a another owner, a tenant, or a board member.

If the HOA owns the parking spaces, perhaps then the HOA could collect rent or a "finders fee" for finding someone to rent the space. But where, David, in your governing documents does it say that the HOA can engage in such services and collect fees? WHO, representing the HOA, offers this service?

As for the former prez/current board member, just neutralize her with the rest of the Board. Mainly ignore her. Can she even write to the board to overturn her previous fine? Where is it written the board must respond to her request?

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/19/2021 4:33 PM
(I too doubt F. Mae cares about this topic)

Who David owns the parking spaces. Ours are deeded to Owners. If an Owner wants to rent out their space, they may so long as their "tenant" lives in our condo building. If someone asks me to help her find a tenant for her space and she would pay me $x, there is no problem. To my mind, it makes no difference if that "helper" is a another owner, a tenant, or a board member.

If the HOA owns the parking spaces, perhaps then the HOA could collect rent or a "finders fee" for finding someone to rent the space. But where, David, in your governing documents does it say that the HOA can engage in such services and collect fees? WHO, representing the HOA, offers this service?

As for the former prez/current board member, just neutralize her with the rest of the Board. Mainly ignore her. Can she even write to the board to overturn her previous fine? Where is it written the board must respond to her request?

I am starting to get more information. Here is additional info.

Yes each spot is deeded to a unit.

Story:
A owner wanted parking inside the gate and not in the alley. She didn't feel safe coming home at night. The previous president let her use her spots inside but didn't tell anyone. So the now the previous president was parking in alley spots.

She talked to another owner (old lady) who didn't drive and set up deal that the hoa would rent her spots inside for 200.00 a month. The HOA paid her out of HOA funds for almost a year. The old lady would cash the check and give the previous president 100.00 cash.

The HOA owns 3 units in the building that it rents out. The previous president then included the parking in the alley in the lease of 2 rentals to get more money on rent. How much more, I do not know. I would need to find previous leases and compare.

So in the end. Owner 1 parked in previous president spots inside gate. Previous president parked in old lady spots. 2 rentals parked in owner 1 spots in alley. Old was paid 200 a month. 100 cash would go to previous president.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 12/19/2021 11:56 AM

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 11:01 AM
I I see it on our balance sheet.

Just an FYI, income for parking will show up on an income/expense report, not the balance sheet.
If, and this is a big IF, why would you need to use Quickbooks to track vendor payments and expenses. This is what the MC should be doing and providing financial reports including bank statements on a monthly basis.

See my story update and what your thoughts are.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 12/19/2021 10:34 AM

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 10:25 AM
I should add, I don't see why a owner couldn't rent their spot. Question is should the board member also make money off it just by introducing the people? Is there a conflict of interest? There are several signs in the building that ask owners to contact the MC if interested in renting their spots.

I think it's unethical at best. In addition, it may run afoul of your governing docs if they prohibit board members from using their position to profit (I assume there is since she was fined, but it's possible that previous board members overstepped).

If she'd simply introduced the people, I'd have said it's fine since apparently your community does this.

See current story update and let me know your thoughts.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

You have what is known as a good old clusterf$$k.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/20/2021 3:22 PM

Posted By CathyA3 on 12/19/2021 10:34 AM

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/19/2021 10:25 AM
I should add, I don't see why a owner couldn't rent their spot. Question is should the board member also make money off it just by introducing the people? Is there a conflict of interest? There are several signs in the building that ask owners to contact the MC if interested in renting their spots.

I think it's unethical at best. In addition, it may run afoul of your governing docs if they prohibit board members from using their position to profit (I assume there is since she was fined, but it's possible that previous board members overstepped).

If she'd simply introduced the people, I'd have said it's fine since apparently your community does this.

See current story update and let me know your thoughts.

Well, I have to admire the board member for her ability to spot a business opportunity.

What complicates this in my mind is that you said parking spots are actually deeded to owners.

If your parking area was common elements with assigned parking spots, that may be different (although you should get a legal opinion). In the condo communities I'm familiar with, all owners have an undivided interest in all of the common areas - the undivided interest means that no owner can say "this piece is mine" and then do with it what they please. Even in the case of limited/exclusive use common elements (eg. decks and patios), they're still common elements and the association/board has a right to make reasonable rules about their usage.

So I think this will hinge on whether or not the parking spaces are actually owned outright by individual owners (ie. deeded to them) or if they are common area owned by the association but with individual spaces labeled as exclusive use. Legally these two things are different and will give the owners different rights.

Even if the spaces are actually individually owned, it still may be reasonable for the association to make some rules - for example, do people have the right to rent their parking spaces to non-members? This may be OK in the case of tenants, but what about employees of area businesses who need places to park during the day?

Aside from this, I still don't like the board member taking a cut for facilitating the transaction. That may be OK for individual owners, But I think that board members should avoid even the appearance of wrongdoing, which in practice may mean that board members have less freedom to act than other homeowners. It kinda goes with the territory, and folks who want to be able to act in their own self interest 100% of the time should not seek election to HOA/COA boards.

Rule of thumb with HOAs/COAs: it's seldom as simple as it seems.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

The thing is she has refused to pay back the money she received from the hoa. I guess this current board says she had to pay it back and gave her a hearing and everything. (2 years ago)

So now she is trying to become president again and wants the "fines" gone. I wish the rest of the owners knew about this mess and it might change some perspectives.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/20/2021 3:19 PM
The HOA owns 3 units in the building that it rents out.

This raises yet more issues. Do the governing documents say anything about the HOA owning units and renting them out? If not, and since the HOA is a nonprofit, renting out units is a questionable practice.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/H/HOA-Owned-Property

ASSOCIATION-OWNED PROPERTY

When an association becomes the owner of a property via foreclosure where a lender still has a first mortgage in place, the association has two options, make mortgage payments to the lender or not make payments.

1. Make Mortgage Payments. If the association intends to keep the property, it must do the following:

Insurance. The association's common area insurance may not cover properties acquired through foreclosure. Many condominium insurance policies will cover a unit acquired by the association while planned development master policies will not. Accordingly, the board must immediately contact the association's insurance agent and, if necessary, take out a separate general liability and property damage policy on property acquired by the association.
Senior Liens. To avoid foreclosure, the association must make timely payments to any senior lien holders.
Taxes. Although associations do not pay property taxes on common areas, they must pay taxes on any units/lots acquired through foreclosure.
Utilities. Utilities will need to be put into the association's name and then paid as they come due.
If the association does the above, it can safely rent the property and retain all rents. In addition, it can cast votes for those properties in membership elections. Finally, it can sell the property at some future date and keep any profits earned.

2. Withhold Payments to Lender. If the association decides not to keep a property long-term, it does not need to make payments to senior lien holders or pay property taxes. That means that at some point the lender will foreclose and take ownership of the property at which point the lender will be responsible for paying any assessments as they come due.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 12/21/2021 9:26 AM
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/H/HOA-Owned-Property

ASSOCIATION-OWNED PROPERTY

When an association becomes the owner of a property via foreclosure where a lender still has a first mortgage in place, the association has two options, make mortgage payments to the lender or not make payments.

1. Make Mortgage Payments. If the association intends to keep the property, it must do the following:

Insurance. The association's common area insurance may not cover properties acquired through foreclosure. Many condominium insurance policies will cover a unit acquired by the association while planned development master policies will not. Accordingly, the board must immediately contact the association's insurance agent and, if necessary, take out a separate general liability and property damage policy on property acquired by the association.
Senior Liens. To avoid foreclosure, the association must make timely payments to any senior lien holders.
Taxes. Although associations do not pay property taxes on common areas, they must pay taxes on any units/lots acquired through foreclosure.
Utilities. Utilities will need to be put into the association's name and then paid as they come due.
If the association does the above, it can safely rent the property and retain all rents. In addition, it can cast votes for those properties in membership elections. Finally, it can sell the property at some future date and keep any profits earned.

2. Withhold Payments to Lender. If the association decides not to keep a property long-term, it does not need to make payments to senior lien holders or pay property taxes. That means that at some point the lender will foreclose and take ownership of the property at which point the lender will be responsible for paying any assessments as they come due.

The apartments are another mess from the previous president causing all the issues.

The spaces were common areas converted to apartments for rent years ago. One lady has been in a unit for over 10 years.

I am not sure they are totally legal or not. Discussion for another post.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

David

Where are you located? Your PM should be of some help.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 9:30 AM

The apartments are another mess from the previous president causing all the issues.

The spaces were common areas converted to apartments for rent years ago. One lady has been in a unit for over 10 years.

I am not sure they are totally legal or not. Discussion for another post.

Have you ever seen, for one, documentation of an owners' vote to convert these common areas to apartments?

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 12/21/2021 9:49 AM

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 9:30 AM

The apartments are another mess from the previous president causing all the issues.

The spaces were common areas converted to apartments for rent years ago. One lady has been in a unit for over 10 years.

I am not sure they are totally legal or not. Discussion for another post.

Have you ever seen, for one, documentation of an owners' vote to convert these common areas to apartments?

I have not. I would need to dig literally piles of paperwork. Trying to focus on the other items first.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our parking spaces are deeded to us owners, BUT they are exclusive use common area. The assn. stripes them & paints the bumpers; Owners must clean up their fluid leaks or be fined, etc. So I don't see how David's HOA can charge rent for them (except for the three that the HOA owns). Owners of the spaces can change rent here (but the tenants must be residents per our rules).

RE: the woman wanting to be president again. So what, David??? The Owners vote for her to be on the Board, but the Board votes for a president. Areyou saying your board will b vote her in as president again??? Are you running for election?

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 9:52 AM

I have not. I would need to dig literally piles of paperwork.

Or you could report to the County Clerk to see if an amendment to the CCRs has been filed and likely an amendment to the plats.

I wonder if the City's approval was needed but not obtained.

;)

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/21/2021 9:57 AM
Our parking spaces are deeded to us owners, BUT they are exclusive use common area. The assn. stripes them & paints the bumpers; Owners must clean up their fluid leaks or be fined, etc. So I don't see how David's HOA can charge rent for them (except for the three that the HOA owns). Owners of the spaces can change rent here (but the tenants must be residents per our rules).

RE: the woman wanting to be president again. So what, David??? The Owners vote for her to be on the Board, but the Board votes for a president. Areyou saying your board will b vote her in as president again??? Are you running for election?

Yes, I am running. I will not vote for her as president.

She and 2 friends are running as a group. From my other post she showed up to our recent election with 15 envelopes with ballots the day before the election

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 10:24 AM

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/21/2021 9:57 AM
Our parking spaces are deeded to us owners, BUT they are exclusive use common area. The assn. stripes them & paints the bumpers; Owners must clean up their fluid leaks or be fined, etc. So I don't see how David's HOA can charge rent for them (except for the three that the HOA owns). Owners of the spaces can change rent here (but the tenants must be residents per our rules).

RE: the woman wanting to be president again. So what, David??? The Owners vote for her to be on the Board, but the Board votes for a president. Areyou saying your board will b vote her in as president again??? Are you running for election?

Yes, I am running. I will not vote for her as president.

She and 2 friends are running as a group. From my other post she showed up to our recent election with 15 envelopes with ballots the day before the election

I have said I see nothing wrong with her showing up with 15 ballots. Expect it to happen again.

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

I do and they will be throw out next time. We cannot have a person running for the board show up with 20% of the ballots. How does one know they haven't been tampered with. Especially since 2-3 elderly owners complained about her coming to their door and forcing them to vote for her and hand them over.

This lady has a history of using the HOA lawyer in the past to go after ppl and a lot of the elder are scared she would take revenge on them. Their words, not mine.

Three past board members that worked with this lady have had food thrown at their doors in the past 6 months. We have limited cameras and the person avoided them. There are a lot of new Ring cameras up now on doors.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 9:52 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 12/21/2021 9:49 AM

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 9:30 AM

The apartments are another mess from the previous president causing all the issues.

The spaces were common areas converted to apartments for rent years ago. One lady has been in a unit for over 10 years.

I am not sure they are totally legal or not. Discussion for another post.

Have you ever seen, for one, documentation of an owners' vote to convert these common areas to apartments?

I have not. I would need to dig literally piles of paperwork. Trying to focus on the other items first.

If you can't find a record of the vote, there should at least be a recorded amendment to your CC&Rs. If your county recorder has a website, you may be able to look this up online. The recording date may at least give you a ballpark estimate for when the vote should have taken place.

I'm coming around to your description of your community as "uniquely dysfunctional".

DavidP29 (California)
Posts: 100

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 12/21/2021 10:51 AM

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 9:52 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 12/21/2021 9:49 AM

Posted By DavidP29 on 12/21/2021 9:30 AM

The apartments are another mess from the previous president causing all the issues.

The spaces were common areas converted to apartments for rent years ago. One lady has been in a unit for over 10 years.

I am not sure they are totally legal or not. Discussion for another post.

Have you ever seen, for one, documentation of an owners' vote to convert these common areas to apartments?

I have not. I would need to dig literally piles of paperwork. Trying to focus on the other items first.

If you can't find a record of the vote, there should at least be a recorded amendment to your CC&Rs. If your county recorder has a website, you may be able to look this up online. The recording date may at least give you a ballpark estimate for when the vote should have taken place.

I'm coming around to your description of your community as "uniquely dysfunctional".

Lol. Yes! Uniquely dysfunctional