HOA Flooring Dispute

Started by GavinT • 31 replies • 1584 views

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GavinT (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

I have done a lot of research and found this forum to have the best understanding of these issues, so I wanted to outline what I am dealing with to get some advice before taking this to an attorney.

We have lived in our Condo for seven years now, and last year a new family moved in next door and immediately removed the carpet flooring through the house and replaced it with hardwood flooring.

We expressed our concerns, and our fears came true. The sound of these hardwood floorings is causing a disturbance to be daily living in our house. We tried with a letter to the neighbors and then followed up with an in-person conversation that didn't go well.

I contacted the HOA to let them know of the issue and requested them to outline the rules and regulations as they see them in the CC&R.

This was the response:

"Gavin,
Thanks for the email. Per section 2.16 of the CC&Rs (below), an owner cannot install hardwood floors on the second floor. PMG will send a violation notice to the owner. The owner will have 30 days replace their hardwood flooring. If not, the owner will be called to Hearing with the Board and will be fined on a monthly basis until the hardwood flooring is replaced.

2.16. HARD SURFACE FLOORING. No Person may install hard surface
flooring on the second floor of any Residence in the Neighborhood, except Owners may replace
hard surface flooring installed by Neighborhood' Builder, provided the Owner replaces the
material with carpet or with materials that are the same or substantially similar to the original
materials installed by Neighborhood Builder (including underlayment as applicable). The
Neighborhood Corporation may require the Owner of a Unit in which hard surface flooring has
been installed in violation of this Section to remove such flooring."

After this, I followed up with them after not get back to me. They informed me that the homeowner had responded and was given a chance to submit an architectural review since they installed hard flooring without approval.

One month later, this is the response I got after I had to follow up once again.

"Hi Gavin,

Sorry I was not able to get back to you last week. Your neighbor filled out an architectural application to keep the flooring once the violation was received. The Board of Directors reviewed her flooring parameters and determined that the subflooring underlayment and sound rating is hire then the sound rating for carpeting so they approved her flooring. The matter has been closed with the association and they will be taking no further action regarding this matter."

I emailed them back once again about this not being acceptable and was given a follow up email that contains the follwing

'Gavin,
Thanks for the email. I understand your frustration. Erica basically outlined the Board’s decision as the hard flooring surface installed with an underlayment with a STC 61 & IIC 65 rating which is equal to carpeting. Below is a description of the ratings.

The Board approved the hard flooring surface due to the IIC rating is equal to carpeting.'

This is how I see it.
Per the CC&R, you can't install hardwood flooring.
You can install hard flooring to replace original builder materials that match the same product. ( They replaced carpet with hardwood)
Nowhere in my CC&R does it say you can install hardwood flooring if it meets the noise requirements outlined above.

Am I missing something here, or is this board approving something they shouldn't? I shouldn't have to live with this noise day and night.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Gavin,

What type of noise are you hearing?

Footsteps and other vibrations will always be heard just because of the way structures are built. I know this because I soundproofed my basement when I renovated. We don't hear noise (tv, voices, etc.) but we do hear vibrations (footprints, washer/dryer on spin cycle, etc.).

If it's voices, then there are things you can do on your end that might help.

See:

5 Easy Ways to Soundproof Your Condo

How to Soundproof a Ceiling – Home, Condo, Apartment, Cost, DIY

Of course, if you feel strongly that this isn't something you should have to spend money on, you can hire an attorney and enforce the covenants yourself (every owner has that right). If you win, I suspect that the upstairs owner will have some recourse against the Association because they approved the change.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

GavinT,

I am sorry for what has happened to you. Here's what I know:

Disputes over the noise from hard surface flooring happen a lot nationwide. Many an appeals court has ruled on situations like this.

I need more facts to comment intelligently. To get the full picture, what did the Neighborhood Builder originally install in the unit above yours?

Please start reading about California HOA/COA Internal Dispute Resolution at https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/I/Internal-Dispute-Resolution .

I am glad you are considering hiring an attorney.

For the archives, anyone living below a unit who observes the upper unit installing hard surface flooring should immediately check the CCRs and as needed, contact the manager and where possible, the Board.

Facts on which I am focused:

Quote:

Posted By GavinT on 12/18/2021 9:07 PM
last year a new family moved in next door [above the OP's unit] and immediately removed the carpet flooring through the house and replaced it with hardwood flooring. ... (They replaced carpet with hardwood)

Email response from HOA:
"Gavin,
Thanks for the email. Per section 2.16 of the CC&Rs (below), an owner cannot install hardwood floors on the second floor. PMG will send a violation notice to the owner. The owner will have 30 days replace their hardwood flooring. If not, the owner will be called to Hearing with the Board and will be fined on a monthly basis until the hardwood flooring is replaced.

The covenant:

2.16. HARD SURFACE FLOORING. No Person may install hard surface
flooring on the second floor of any Residence in the Neighborhood, except Owners may replace
hard surface flooring installed by Neighborhood' Builder, provided the Owner replaces the
material with carpet or with materials that are the same or substantially similar to the original
materials installed by Neighborhood Builder (including underlayment as applicable). The
Neighborhood Corporation may require the Owner of a Unit in which hard surface flooring has
been installed in violation of this Section to remove such flooring."

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I also own in a multi-story condo building. Form what Gavin wrote, the Board is permitting the a hard-surface owner to violate a very clear covenant on the topic. I think Gavin should impassively and carefully write what he's written us to the board of directors with emphasis, of course, on the specific covenant. He shows ask the Board to review the project that's in violation. Even ask for a private meeting with the board.

Gavin, it's not clear to me who replied to you. A property manager? Who is Erica? I'm trying to get at whether your violation report went to the Board at all. I would try hard to get some sort of meeting with the board before I sought an attorney.

I assume the hard floor was installed on the 2nd floor or higher. And, with Augustin, are you sure the original floor covering was carpeting? Is it possible it was wood that a subsequent owner replaced with carpeting?

(And, btw, our condo tower has many installations of hard surface flooring including stone. Units below hear nothing except heavy items landing if dropped.)

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/19/2021 9:53 AM
are you sure the original floor covering was carpeting? Is it possible it was wood that a subsequent owner replaced with carpeting?

Ditto. It appears to me this determines how much legal wiggle room the board and upstairs owner may have.

GavinT (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Hello,

We were friends with the people that moved out and it was 100% carpet. Additionally, there are only 4 models in our HOA that had hardwood installed and their unit wasn't one of them.

Carpet was replaced with hardwood.

GavinT (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

The builder put carpet in all our units. So per the CC&R you can't install hardwood after taking the carpet out.

Since the CC&R state no hardwood flooring we don't have any sound requirements because you can't install the hardwood to begin with. So the fact the HOA is approving it after the fact with no approval and pointing to a sound rating as the reason for the approval I personally feel this rule was made up because its not in the CC&R.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GavinT on 12/19/2021 11:42 AM
The builder put carpet in all our units. So per the CC&R you can't install hardwood after taking the carpet out.

Since the CC&R state no hardwood flooring we don't have any sound requirements because you can't install the hardwood to begin with. So the fact the HOA is approving it after the fact with no approval and pointing to a sound rating as the reason for the approval I personally feel this rule was made up because its not in the CC&R.

Gavin

If you believe you are right, how far do you intend to push this? If you are prepared to play hardball, have an attorney write a threatening letter to the BOD.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GavinT on 12/19/2021 11:42 AM
The builder put carpet in all our units. So per the CC&R you can't install hardwood after taking the carpet out.

Then proceed to IDR. Start by asking your manager if it has an IDR procedure. Then read at the davis-stirling site about IDR. An attorney will give you your best chances. With stakes this high (ongoing noise), I would hire the attorney.

Prepare for the HOA coming back with: "What is 'hard surface'? In the Board's opinion, this flooring system is not 'hard surface.' "

You may need an attorney to research case law on this point and send a letter that rips the board a new one.

Some lower floor folks win these lawsuits. Some lose. Much has to be considered. I think one should not assume this is black-and-white.

One of the best arguments in my opinion is that the upper unit owners did not apply for permission before installing the floor. Subsequently those board members who are naive will be inclined to by sympathetic. I think this may have happened here.

Fact is nationwide HOAs/COAs have ordered those who put in (noisy) unlawful floors (in upper level units) to tear them out, and the owners have complied (rather than lawyer up).

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I still hope you'll answer my questions, Gavin. I'll try a different way of asking them:

1. Have you heard directly from the board of directors? Or is the correspondence from a property manager? Or from an Architectural Committee? Who, exactly has been writing to you? Their title?

2. Have you written a violation letter to the board complaining in the most polite way that the above owner is violating CC&R Section 2.16 and it is affecting you with nuisance noice.

I'm trying to see a way you can get this resolved before/without needing IDR or an attorney.

GavinT (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Hello

1. The assistant to the president of the property management group sent the update that the Board of Directors had reviewed the Architectural application and approved it. Keep in mind this was after they installed the flooring without approval. After I responded that this was not acceptable the president of the management group (not the board) responded to me with the reason why they approved the board reviewed the padding in the application and said the hard flooring padding is the same as carpet.

2. Yes, I reached out to the property president and he was the one that let me know it was a violation and that they have 30 days to replace the floors.

So we went from being told it's a violation and you can't have hard flooring to approving them stating the padding submitted in the architectural review was equal to the carpet.

a. we have nothing in our CC&R or rules about padding requirements with sound levels because our CC&R clearly states you can't have hard floorings.

b. What is the point of having a CC&R if you can just install hardwood against the rules and then have the board approve padding that isn't outlined in the CC&R and take the homeowner's word for it without an actual test and keep hard surface flooring?

Even if they did do a sound test it still doesn't change the fact this homeowner replaced carpet with hardwood, got the violation, and then sent in an architectural review to keep the floors and the board closed the case saying the padding is equal or better than carpet.

How can the board make up an exception that directly goes against what the CC&R says? This means anybody can install hardwood when the CC&R says no.

Thank you for taking the time to help me and give advice.

ThadC2 (Florida)
Posts: 820

Posted:

hire a prepaid lawyer company and get them to send a letter. usually costs about $30 a month and you can cancel any time.

BarogaK (Montana)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GavinT on 12/18/2021 9:07 PM
I have done a lot of research and found this forum to have the best understanding of these issues, so I wanted to outline what I am dealing with to get some advice before taking this to an attorney.

We have lived in our Condo for seven years now, and last year a new family moved in next door and immediately removed the carpet flooring through the house and replaced it with hardwood flooring.

We expressed our concerns, and our fears came true. The sound of these hardwood floorings is causing a disturbance to be daily living in our house. We tried with a letter to the neighbors and then followed up with an in-person conversation that didn't go well.

I contacted the HOA to let them know of the issue and requested them to outline the rules and regulations as they see them in the CC&R.

This was the response:

"Gavin,
Thanks for the email. Per section 2.16 of the CC&Rs (below), an owner cannot install hardwood floors on the second floor. PMG will send a violation notice to the owner. The owner will have 30 days replace their hardwood flooring. If not, the owner will be called to Hearing with the Board and will be fined on a monthly basis until the hardwood flooring is replaced.

2.16. HARD SURFACE FLOORING. No Person may install hard surface
flooring on the second floor of any Residence in the Neighborhood, except Owners may replace
hard surface flooring installed by Neighborhood' Builder, provided the Owner replaces the
material with carpet or with materials that are the same or substantially similar to the original
materials installed by Neighborhood Builder (including underlayment as applicable). The
Neighborhood Corporation may require the Owner of a Unit in which hard surface flooring has
been installed in violation of this Section to remove such flooring."

After this, I followed up with them after not get back to me. They informed me that the homeowner had responded and was given a chance to submit an architectural review since they installed hard flooring without approval.

One month later, this is the response I got after I had to follow up once again.

"Hi Gavin,

Sorry I was not able to get back to you last week. Your neighbor filled out an architectural application to keep the flooring once the violation was received. The Board of Directors reviewed her flooring parameters and determined that the subflooring underlayment and sound rating is hire then the sound rating for carpeting so they approved her flooring. The matter has been closed with the association and they will be taking no further action regarding this matter."

I emailed them back once again about this not being acceptable and was given a follow up email that contains the follwing

'Gavin,
Thanks for the email. I understand your frustration. Erica basically outlined the Board’s decision as the hard flooring surface installed with an underlayment with a STC 61 & IIC 65 rating which is equal to carpeting. Below is a description of the ratings.

The Board approved the hard flooring surface due to the IIC rating is equal to carpeting.'

This is how I see it.
Per the CC&R, you can't install hardwood flooring.
You can install hard flooring to replace original builder materials that match the same product. ( They replaced carpet with hardwood)
Nowhere in my CC&R does it say you can install hardwood flooring if it meets the noise requirements outlined above.

Am I missing something here, or is this board approving something they shouldn't? I shouldn't have to live with this noise day and night.
source:https://www.homzic.com/

Exactly, you are right.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GavinT on 12/19/2021 11:38 AM
Hello,

We were friends with the people that moved out and it was 100% carpet. Additionally, there are only 4 models in our HOA that had hardwood installed and their unit wasn't one of them.

Carpet was replaced with hardwood.

Can you get your HOA to spray and or install sound dampening sound proof insulation into your ceiling space?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I disagree with LetA's idea. Why should Gavin put up with a clear violation of the covenants???

Gavin, looks like you have no choice but to follow Augustin's advice and seek IDR. If you've received your annual budget letter, the process is explained there. Yyou'd meet personally with probably a couple of board members and see what happens.

Btw, does your HOA have Architectural Guidelines? THEY might say that hard flooring is OK with certain standards followed. BUT if it was not an amendment tot he CC&Rs and voted on on by the members (Owners), it is not valid.

GavinT (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Here is the latest communication with the president of the board and attached the Architectual guidelines.

[My Response]

Hello Eric

Can you confirm the date and the zoom link that I will need to attend this review about the floors and the time?

Additionally, Can you please send me a copy of the HOA architectural review guidelines that outline the sound requirement thresholds you must have with padding to allow installation of hardwood floors? The CC&R clearly says no hard surface, so I am having difficulty finding the sound thresholds in the CC&R or amended documents.

[HOA Response]
Hi Gavin,

The next meeting date is tentatively February 21, 2022. I will have the meeting link 4 days before the meeting so please check back in then for the zoom link.

The Board of Directors made the decision of the hard wood flooring, I do not know if there is a rule or where it is. Please see attached architectural guidelines that you requested.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best regards,

[My Response]
Thank you for sending this over, Erica,

I understand you are just the messenger, but I want to be prepared for this meeting to make the best use of everybody's time.

Can you contact the board of directors and ask them where I can find this information? It doesn't seem to be in the architectural review guidelines.

I have spoken to many contractors, and they have all said the same thing. No hard surface flooring is available that allows an underpadding that is equal to better than carpet.

Please ask them where I can get a copy of the sound requirement guidelines and a copy of the acoustic engineering test that was administered during the inspection before approval that rated the floor sounds as carpet.

Thank you

[HOA Response]
Gavin,

Thanks for the email. There are no sound requirement guidelines and no acoustic engineering testing. The Board took the information provided on the architectural application and googled the underlayment with a STC 61 & IIC 65 rating. Therefore, the Board approved the hard flooring surface due to the IIC rating is equal to carpeting. Below is a description of the ratings.

IIC (impact insulation class) is measured in terms of sound impact, or how well sound vibrations travel through a floor to the room below.

IIC 50 has the least impact sound absorption quality. While this may be appropriate for ground floors, it would be unsatisfactory for most on a high floor without a great deal of insulation in the area between the floor and the ceiling below. Most stone and tile will fall into this category.

IIC 60 indicates a medium impact sound absorption quality and encompasses floorings such as wood, laminates, and some vinyl.

IIC 65 is a high level of impact sound transmission absorption and includes superior sound reduction materials like carpet and cork.

Best regards,

[My Response]
Hello Eric,

Thank you for the email, it will be interesting to see how this meeting goes. I can promise you that any board member that had to live with this noise wouldn't be relying on google to validate a sound rating that isn't even in the architectural guidelines.

The reason the guidelines don't have minimum STC and LLC sound ratings is that the CC&R clearly states you can't have hard surface flooring. They replaced the carpet with a hard surface.

Additionally, this is a post violation review, and the fact the board operates on the honor system without any due diligence to verify this information is even more concerning. If I had volition and was told to remove my floors and sent in documents saying I did are you just going to take my word for it? No, they wouldn't.

Underlayment is one component of flooring. Not only do you have to have good underlayment you need to have carpet to get a proper rating that is equal to the carpet. Underlayment with any rating mixed with hard surface doesn't equally carpet. There is a reason the CC&R says no hard surface and there are no sound requirements in the rules & regs because you are not allowed hard surface flooring nor can they replace carpet with a hard surface.

It doesn't state you can have hard surface flooring if you maintain a sound rating of x.

Not trying to make your life difficult, but I can't continue to live with this noise and I will hold my comments for the scheduled meeting. My hope is the board understands my position.

Gavin

[HOA Response]

Gavin,

Thanks for the email. The Board will review your email at the February 2022 meeting.

📎 Attachments (1):

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📄1110463974471.pdf(251 KB)

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Is the Board saying then, that they approved a "variance" per Section 5.8 to the CC&Rs?

What kind of meeting is on Feb. 22nd? An open board meeting? A meeting with you?

GavinT (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

They have not referenced anything around a variance. They simply said they Googled the underlayment that the homeowner said they installed and that was it... case closed.

The meeting I requested was with the board of directors to get a clear explanation on the approval and how they think underlayment is equal to or better than carpet with hard surfaces.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

It sounds to me that this particular Board of Directors just made up their own rule rather than governing based on the published CC&Rs and other documents. I would call them out, politely, on that.

GavinT (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

That has been my frustration from the start. This was also a post violation review. This wasn't approved prior to the work started.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Not making excuses for your board, but they probably did not want to force the homeowner to rip out their hard surface and accepted the "evidence" that the person had put in adequate soundproofing. And they hoped you would go away quietly.

So the board feels they are between a rock and a hard place - you might sue because they violated the CC&Rs and the other person might sue because they were given permission (after the fact) and now is forced to remove the flooring.

If it was me, I don't think I would wait until your February meeting. They aren't going to suddenly change their minds if they have been avoiding you this long.

I would hire an attorney and send them a letter demanding they take action since this situation clearly violates your CC&Rs and is making your condo situation unlivable. I don't see any other option.

I suspect your board is already contacting their attorney.

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriM15 on 01/10/2022 2:11 PM
Not making excuses for your board, but they probably did not want to force the homeowner to rip out their hard surface and accepted the "evidence" that the person had put in adequate soundproofing. And they hoped you would go away quietly.

So the board feels they are between a rock and a hard place - you might sue because they violated the CC&Rs and the other person might sue because they were given permission (after the fact) and now is forced to remove the flooring.

If it was me, I don't think I would wait until your February meeting. They aren't going to suddenly change their minds if they have been avoiding you this long.

I would hire an attorney and send them a letter demanding they take action since this situation clearly violates your CC&Rs and is making your condo situation unlivable. I don't see any other option.

I suspect your board is already contacting their attorney.

Concur

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Just posting to say that I read the exchange GavinT posted here today and the attachment (showing the architectural control yada requirements). I continue to feel his arguments are good. Still, this board's directors are stupid and spineless. The most intelligent thing the board can do is to get the COA attorney's opinion. GavinT, you should urge the Board to do so, but do not bet on which side the COA attorney comes down. Like many here are saying, you need to be ready to pay several thousand dollars to an attorney. It is the price of close-quarter living in condos. It sucks. I remain sorry for your situation. This forum gets a fair number of upper level floor noise complainants each year, typically resulting from boards who do not follow their COA's covenants and do not get that this is a well known problem, frequently addressed by first trial courts, and then incredibly (or not so incredibly) appeals courts, nationwide.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Agree with Lori that the Board probably "stepped in it" with their ignorant and incorrect approval, and now they don't know how to get it off their shoes.

Gavin, what are they calling this meeting with you and why is it so far off in the future. Is it in "executive session" and you're the only agenda item?

As Augustin advised earlier, you probably need to read about IDR at Davis-sterling.com. Your own HOA should also have included info about IDR in its budget letter that you may have received not long ago. Your CC&Rs may have IDR steps in them.

We do get some floor noise issues on this site, but I can't recall we've had one where a board stupidly ignored their covenants and gave permission to an Owner to violate them. Your board, I'm now thinking, is in violation of the Better Judgement Rule (BJR) since they did not seek the advice of any flooring experts thus didn't practice reasonable inquiry or due diligence to make a decision that violated their CC&Rs. Another expert, they might have sought would have been their HOA attorney who'd interpret for them the "NO hard flooring" restriction to see if allows rooms for providing a variance. IMO, you have a very strong case. But see if the board will relent.

Was the entire unit above covered with hard surface flooring? What size is it?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Having lived in a first floor condo with noisy neighbors upstairs, here's what I've learned:

* Some people make more noise than others. An inconsiderate neighbor on carpet and vinyl will make more noise than a considerate one on hardwood - i.e, it's not the flooring, it's the homeowner.

* There are consequences to enforcing your rights, including retaliation and bad relations with neighbors,the board and the PM.

* The upstairs person literally has the upper hand. That person can make you more miserable (via noise) than you can make him (via violation notices, forcing him to replace the flooring, etc.).

* Even if you win a legal battle over the flooring, there is no guarantee that the outcome will be acceptable.

* People who dislike noise should avoid having neighbors overhead since even compliant flooring can produce unacceptable levels of noise. (I sold my condo and moved into a townhome, since side-to-side noise transmission is often less of a problem. My next home will be detached - no multi-unit buildings.)

My opinion of noise complaints in multi-unit buildings is that they're often a lost cause. If I found myself in a similar situation in the future, I'd save my time and money and call a realtor instead of a lawyer.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

The ball is in your court and you have a slam dunk. You need to hire an attorney that will take that red rubber dodge ball and POW!!!
The board definitely stepped in a big cow pie. No mean NO not well ok after the fact. The attorney can hit the board and the homeowner with a demand letter. both are equally culpable.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 01/11/2022 11:40 AM
The ball is in your court and you have a slam dunk.

Rarely is it a slam dunk. For one, the HOA's attorney and the upper level owner can pick apart the meaning of "hard surface."

HOA Attorney to Judge: "Your honor, as soon as underlayment is installed, this is no longer "hard surface." Acoustical testing supports this."

I think the OP has to decide what the upper limit is of the money he wants to spend on this. With luck the Board will cave early. But given that the Board can spend as much HOA money on the HOA attorney as the Board wants, victory here is far from certain.

It's largely not about truth or justice. It's largely about who has more money.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 01/11/2022 12:20 PM

Posted By LetA on 01/11/2022 11:40 AM
The ball is in your court and you have a slam dunk.

Well said.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I don't that that a judge would be impressed with any attorney trying to show that an xx -rated UNDERlayment means that the wood (or marble or luxe vinyl) SURFACE is no longer "hard."

But, aGain, do agree that you want to think about how much you might be willing to pay to peaceful;ly enjoy your home.

DavidR33 (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Did you have the acoustical testing done on the Ceiling/Floor?

Without that it is a subjective issue.

Let me know.

DavidR33 (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Did you have the acoustical testing done on the Ceiling/Floor?

Without that it is a subjective issue.

Let me know.

DenisC1 (California)
Posts: 1

Posted:

I realize this is an older thread. One point to consider is that unerlayment ratings are often mis-used.
An underlayment does not have an IIC or STC rating by itself. The rating comes from testing an entire floor/ceiling assembly which includes everything from the flooring, stuctural components (plywood, wood floor joists or concrete slabs) and ceiling coverings below. Underlayment manufacturers often advertise high IIC/STC ratings but you need to look at the floor/ceiling assembly used for the test and see how it compares to the floor/ceiling assmbly in your own bulding. High test numbers can be derived from testing over a 6" concrete slab with a suspended ceiling on wires below. While this might be representative of the floor/ceiling in a modern concrete high rise building you cannot transfer the results to a wood framed building.

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