How to get roofer to finish work

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

We had new roofs put on our two condo buildings two years ago. The roofer didn't do a good job making our scuppers look good. Many of the scuppers look crooked and the concrete was applied sloppily around them. The roofers came back and did some work on the scuppers but they still don't look good. They keep saying they'll be coming back but this has dragged on for months. Since the roofers were already paid, I don't know if we have any leverage to make them do a better job. We have a management company but they don't seem to be doing a lot to resolve this as far as I can tell.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Never pay a vendor until the job is completed and approved. It's been 2 years. Chances of them coming back are slim and by paying them you approved the work done.

Best to move on and either live with it or hire another vendor to fix.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Your Board could send a demand letter, threatening small claims court, if they do not make good on their work.

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

I didn't realize we were paying them before the work was done. Our management company should have done a better job.

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 12/17/2021 10:56 AM
Your Board could send a demand letter, threatening small claims court, if they do not make good on their work.

Thanks.

A local TV news station does a segment where they will confront a business that has not treated a customer fairly. It seems to shame the company into making things right. I wonder if we should try it or if our case is too weak.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You can place a lien on them. It is called a mechanics lien. They have to pay it .

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Are you on the board, Phil?

Didn't your Board get a warranty in the roofing contract?

Since the roofer was (I'd think) paid out of reserves, surely board members had to approve the expenditure. Or can the MC write checks from reserves whenever they feel like??

Have your HOA attorney, along the line Augustin suggests, write a demand letter to the contractor. Even if no warranty, your HOA probably is protected legally against construction defects. If it doesn't seem like a whole lot of money, small claims court might be the ticket.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/17/2021 11:20 AM
You can place a lien on them. It is called a mechanics lien. They have to pay it .

Can you explain for us how that works in this situation?

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/17/2021 11:29 AM
Are you on the board, Phil?

Didn't your Board get a warranty in the roofing contract?

Since the roofer was (I'd think) paid out of reserves, surely board members had to approve the expenditure. Or can the MC write checks from reserves whenever they feel like??

Have your HOA attorney, along the line Augustin suggests, write a demand letter to the contractor. Even if no warranty, your HOA probably is protected legally against construction defects. If it doesn't seem like a whole lot of money, small claims court might be the ticket.

Yes. I'm on the board. I assume the board had to approve payments. I know we had to approve a number of things regarding the work that was done. I won't have approved paying all the money if I realized the work wasn't completed.

I know we have a warranty from the company that made the roofing material. I don't know if there's another warranty.

Can sloppy work be considered a construction defect?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

No sloppy work not considered a defect. It has to be construction related. It is a fell and see thing.

A mechanics lien is a legal instrument may be used if they did not finish the job. Hold the money owed as hostage so to speak. Finish job to get X back.

Bad idea to deal with roofers when you do not know how the game is played. Never pay first or whole amount. Always verify bbb history. Too many fly by night roofing companies.

Warranties vary on their purpose. Did you get a warranty on their work or materials? If got on materials you can find A new roofer and get materials replaced. If it was for workmanship then maybe a chance of sloppy work. However not all companies offer that.

Former HOA President

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/17/2021 12:23 PM
A mechanics lien is a legal instrument may be used if they did not finish the job. Hold the money owed as hostage so to speak. Finish job to get X back.

Here is a for instance.

A mechanic's lien is a legal claim against a home or other property. ... For example, if you remodeled your bathroom and the general contractor did not pay the material supplier who supplied the bathtub, the material supplier can place a lien against your house to recover the money.

The HOA can't place a mechanics lien on the contractor.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PhilK3

Yes. I'm on the board. I assume the board had to approve payments. I know we had to approve a number of things regarding the work that was done. I won't have approved paying all the money if I realized the work wasn't completed.

I know we have a warranty from the company that made the roofing material. I don't know if there's another warranty.

Can sloppy work be considered a construction defect?

Ick. As others have said, you may have to learn from this and move on. In fact, it would appear everyone on this board has a few lessons that need learning to start with reviewing the contract before you sign. Someone on the board had to sign off on this but first, everyone should have reviewed that contract. You said you approved the expense, so how is it you don't know whether the money came from the operating fund (pays routine expenses) or reserves (usually roof replacement is paid out of that.) Where are the minutes where it's documented the board approved the repairs in the first place? Were you at those meetings?

Board members should never answer questions as "I assume" - you either know or you don't. You're not expected to be an expert on everything, but if you don't know, ask. Especially when it comes to money - this money comes from you and your neighbors and the board is responsible for ensuring it's spent appropriately. The property manager works at the board's direction, so if he/she screwed up, the board needs to put foot to behind so they fix it.

As for "sloppy work" being considered a construction defect, that's probably something a judge would have to decide, so you'll probably have to go to court to sort that out. There may be a warranty for the materials, but it doesn't sound like they failed, otherwise that might be on the manufacturer. Then again, if the materials aren't used as the manufacturer stipulates, there's a chance the warranty could be voided.

For now, focus on getting the work done and have your attorney take over contacting this company - actually, you may as well prepare a lawsuit because if they haven't responded by now, they aren't going to. Weather may also be a factor because it's wintertime and I don't know what happens in your area, so this needs to be fixed right away. As part of your lawsuit, you can ask for your attorneys fees, court costs, cost of the original work AND whatever you had to spent to have it redone properly. Winning the lawsuit is one thing, collecting is another, so be prepared for drama.

And from now on, NEVER pay for work in full before the contractor shows up - I don't care who it is. That doesn't give them an incentive to compete - they already have the money, so they can drag their feet in completing it. Ideally, you don't pay for than 25% of the work as a deposit and then pay in increments as the work is being done. The final bill doesn't get paid until after someone inspects the work and made sure the work area is cleaned up, and the association is released from liens by any subcontractors. In fact, that may explain the lack of response - the people who actually did the work were subcontractors to the people who got the check, they haven't been paid either and therefore nothing will get done until they get their check and it doesn't bounce.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 12/17/2021 12:41 PM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/17/2021 12:23 PM
A mechanics lien is a legal instrument may be used if they did not finish the job. Hold the money owed as hostage so to speak. Finish job to get X back.

Here is a for instance.

A mechanic's lien is a legal claim against a home or other property. ... For example, if you remodeled your bathroom and the general contractor did not pay the material supplier who supplied the bathtub, the material supplier can place a lien against your house to recover the money.

The HOA can't place a mechanics lien on the contractor.

Agreed. The lien would be against the property where the work is done.

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 12/17/2021 1:01 PM

Posted By PhilK3

Yes. I'm on the board. I assume the board had to approve payments. I know we had to approve a number of things regarding the work that was done. I won't have approved paying all the money if I realized the work wasn't completed.

I know we have a warranty from the company that made the roofing material. I don't know if there's another warranty.

Can sloppy work be considered a construction defect?

Ick. As others have said, you may have to learn from this and move on. In fact, it would appear everyone on this board has a few lessons that need learning to start with reviewing the contract before you sign. Someone on the board had to sign off on this but first, everyone should have reviewed that contract. You said you approved the expense, so how is it you don't know whether the money came from the operating fund (pays routine expenses) or reserves (usually roof replacement is paid out of that.) Where are the minutes where it's documented the board approved the repairs in the first place? Were you at those meetings?

Board members should never answer questions as "I assume" - you either know or you don't. You're not expected to be an expert on everything, but if you don't know, ask. Especially when it comes to money - this money comes from you and your neighbors and the board is responsible for ensuring it's spent appropriately. The property manager works at the board's direction, so if he/she screwed up, the board needs to put foot to behind so they fix it.

As for "sloppy work" being considered a construction defect, that's probably something a judge would have to decide, so you'll probably have to go to court to sort that out. There may be a warranty for the materials, but it doesn't sound like they failed, otherwise that might be on the manufacturer. Then again, if the materials aren't used as the manufacturer stipulates, there's a chance the warranty could be voided.

For now, focus on getting the work done and have your attorney take over contacting this company - actually, you may as well prepare a lawsuit because if they haven't responded by now, they aren't going to. Weather may also be a factor because it's wintertime and I don't know what happens in your area, so this needs to be fixed right away. As part of your lawsuit, you can ask for your attorneys fees, court costs, cost of the original work AND whatever you had to spent to have it redone properly. Winning the lawsuit is one thing, collecting is another, so be prepared for drama.

And from now on, NEVER pay for work in full before the contractor shows up - I don't care who it is. That doesn't give them an incentive to compete - they already have the money, so they can drag their feet in completing it. Ideally, you don't pay for than 25% of the work as a deposit and then pay in increments as the work is being done. The final bill doesn't get paid until after someone inspects the work and made sure the work area is cleaned up, and the association is released from liens by any subcontractors. In fact, that may explain the lack of response - the people who actually did the work were subcontractors to the people who got the check, they haven't been paid either and therefore nothing will get done until they get their check and it doesn't bounce.

The association had to take out a loan to pay for the roof. That's where the money came from.

This was two years ago, so I don't recall the details so well. I remember being asked to approve a number of things regarding the work. I didn't realize that we were making a final payment before all the work was complete. I don't think our management company should have let that happen. I don' think our manager was overseeing the job like she should have been. The board president was spending a lot of time dealing with various issues with the construction company.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

This was a cluster of assumptions. Why would the PM be responsible? Is it in their contract to do so? Most likely not. It is on the HOA to have over seen the project.

I can see how this happened as think many of us. So don't feel bad. The roofing business is filled with questionable business practices. Even as an individual owner, dealing with roofers isn't easy. I've come close to being suckered myself. It just that my eyes have been open to this kind of business for a long time.

Like Sheila said. It's time to lick your wounds and move on. Next time take a few more steps in vetting out your contractors. The BBB website is your friend. Don't be afraid to ask for proof of license/insurance. If this roof replacement was due to emergency storm damage, be extra vigilante in hiring fast. Most of the con companies show up then.

I had a company that had a BBB license logo on their form. Decided to take a second to go to the BBB website to verify. Turns out they were NOT a member! So don't trust pictures or indicators they are some kind of member of something. Verify, verify, verify.

Find out what the losses are and what the original contract was for. See what warranties you have. Next time do the 3 bid process for every contractor. Also assign someone to be a lead of the work. Preferably someone with some knowledge or experience.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your management company is not in charge of approving payments to contractors, the board is or a board member. Your MC also is not an attorney and can't "go after" this vendor. With a job this big, It's very possible the MC should not have been "overseeing" the work.

Yes, poorly done work that doesn't meet the "standards of care of their industry" IS a construction defect, at least in CA. We HAD run out of warranty, but the statute of limitations (in Ca) were still in effect. Our recent case is for exterior painting of our high rise stucco exterior and treating/refinishing exterior "architectural metal" cladding. After three years, the paint started peeling in some areas. In addition, the treatment to the ARC metal cladding also became an unsightly mess. I presented the original contract, etc., to the board in executive session to get approval to contact our HOA attorney about the flaws.

He filed an American Arbitration Association (AAA) form demanding the Contractor fix their poor work or begin arbitration immediately. The company complied and has done a lot of work on the green metal (which is a small ground floor-25th floor 20 foot wide section) and is testing the stucco paint. They have to use swing stages, which we provided, but they must pay for the certification that they're OK.

Phil, your board needs your HOA attorney's advice right now. You don't want some statute(s) to lapse. This is not part of the skill set of an MC. do review gain the final contract to see if there's a warranty for labor. Even if there was and it's expired, you still have recourse due to defective work.

(Ignore the bickering about liens...sigh)

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/17/2021 3:28 PM
Your management company is not in charge of approving payments to contractors, the board is or a board member. Your MC also is not an attorney and can't "go after" this vendor. With a job this big, It's very possible the MC should not have been "overseeing" the work.

Yes, poorly done work that doesn't meet the "standards of care of their industry" IS a construction defect, at least in CA. We HAD run out of warranty, but the statute of limitations (in Ca) were still in effect. Our recent case is for exterior painting of our high rise stucco exterior and treating/refinishing exterior "architectural metal" cladding. After three years, the paint started peeling in some areas. In addition, the treatment to the ARC metal cladding also became an unsightly mess. I presented the original contract, etc., to the board in executive session to get approval to contact our HOA attorney about the flaws.

He filed an American Arbitration Association (AAA) form demanding the Contractor fix their poor work or begin arbitration immediately. The company complied and has done a lot of work on the green metal (which is a small ground floor-25th floor 20 foot wide section) and is testing the stucco paint. They have to use swing stages, which we provided, but they must pay for the certification that they're OK.

Phil, your board needs your HOA attorney's advice right now. You don't want some statute(s) to lapse. This is not part of the skill set of an MC. do review gain the final contract to see if there's a warranty for labor. Even if there was and it's expired, you still have recourse due to defective work.

(Ignore the bickering about liens...sigh)

We're a condominium association, not a HOA. We don't have an attorney. The management company can't help us get legal advice?

I would have thought that the management company would have made it clear to the board that the work wasn't complete and that we shouldn't make the final payment until that time. I wasn't aware that we were paying before the work was completed.

I had read that a condo association might want to hire someone like an engineer to oversee a roofing project. I ask the manager about it. She told me that some other associations did that. She hadn't suggested it to us though.

I'll ask about the warranty.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your board needs to find an attorney, Phil. Surely your MC can recommend one or more. Is your property manager onsite full-time? Or are you part of a portfolio? does your PM work for a management company? Whatever the case, the BOARD is ultimately responsible and it seems that you're placing blame on the MC instead. That will not get your roofs fixed. Does your contract with the MC say they manage projects and should know PA construction defect law? Or any other kind of condo laws?

What size is your condo project? Are the units multiple stories? Yes, if the project was sizable, your board probably should have interviewed firms to hire a "project manager," or "construction manager."

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

If you expect the management company to do all the thinking for you, why do you need a board? What do you mean when you say the property manager should have told you not to pay the rest of the money until the work was complete? The board should have read the damned contract and the would have known that.

The manager may refer you to potential attorneys, but you and you colleagues have to do what you were ELECTED to do - do some vetting, ask about fees and then make your choice. There are a number of discussions on this website about The pros and cons of selecting an attorney, so read some of them. They're probably very old so don't respond to them - start another conversation, if necessary, to get some tips. Or just Google "how to select a HOA attorney."

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/17/2021 7:16 PM
Your board needs to find an attorney, Phil. Surely your MC can recommend one or more. Is your property manager onsite full-time? Or are you part of a portfolio? does your PM work for a management company? Whatever the case, the BOARD is ultimately responsible and it seems that you're placing blame on the MC instead. That will not get your roofs fixed. Does your contract with the MC say they manage projects and should know PA construction defect law? Or any other kind of condo laws?

What size is your condo project? Are the units multiple stories? Yes, if the project was sizable, your board probably should have interviewed firms to hire a "project manager," or "construction manager."

It's a small condo. There two buildings and about 28 units. We're just one of the places the company manages. I don't think I've seen a contract between us and the management company. I don't know all the things they are responsible for doing for us.

I wonder if it is worth the expense of getting an attorney. I seems like we may not have a good chance of succeeding.

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 12/17/2021 7:23 PM
If you expect the management company to do all the thinking for you, why do you need a board? What do you mean when you say the property manager should have told you not to pay the rest of the money until the work was complete? The board should have read the damned contract and the would have known that.

The manager may refer you to potential attorneys, but you and you colleagues have to do what you were ELECTED to do - do some vetting, ask about fees and then make your choice. There are a number of discussions on this website about The pros and cons of selecting an attorney, so read some of them. They're probably very old so don't respond to them - start another conversation, if necessary, to get some tips. Or just Google "how to select a HOA attorney."

I did look at the documents the management sent us to sign. Apparently, I and the rest of the board didn't completely understand them. I thought a management company was supposed to advise the board and keep us from making those kind of mistakes.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

MCs would likely advise if asked.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Not sure what Tim's implying, but your MC should not be giving you legal advice. They are not qualified to know about statutes of limitation, for instance and the difference between types o defects. Your board certainly can ask the MC to offer suggestions about your options.

You must read your contract with the MC, Phil. You are, it seems, expecting way too much from the MC especially since they don't even work on your promises. How in the world could your board expect the MC to "oversee" work on roofs????

You have NO chance of succeeding if your board won't spend a couple of hundred bucks to initially consult with an HOA or contract law attorney. It honestly sounds to me as if your Boar is NOT looking out after eh best interests of your HOA.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PhilK3 on 12/17/2021 8:41 PM

I did look at the documents the management sent us to sign. Apparently, I and the rest of the board didn't completely understand them. I thought a management company was supposed to advise the board and keep us from making those kind of mistakes.

In a word, NO! A property manager can make recommendations, but even then, you have to apply careful thought to the issue before making a decision. If you review a contract and there's something you don't understand, that's when you consult your attorney.

This isn't the first time there have conversations on this website where HOA boards left EVERYTHING go the property manager and chaos ensued. This is why education is so important-if you don't know something and you know you don't know, go and find out. I often refer people to the CAI website which has educational materials on many HOA issues,from selecting and working with management companies to handling delinquencies. Go out there and take a look. Look through this website and search for conversations - you may not find a subject that matches exactly with your situation, but you'll get ideas on things you should consider.

In the meantime, pull out the management contract and read it, so you'll get an understanding of what they are paid to do and what they don't do. If you want more services, you'll need to see if they're offered and what they cost. That will mean you'll pay one and your assessments will have to be adjusted accordingly. If you've already set 2022 assessments, you may have wait until 2023 to factor in the new amount into the new budget

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PhilK3 on 12/17/2021 8:41 PM

I did look at the documents the management sent us to sign. Apparently, I and the rest of the board didn't completely understand them. I thought a management company was supposed to advise the board and keep us from making those kind of mistakes.

In a word, NO! A property manager can make recommendations, but even then, you have to apply careful thought to the issue before making a decision. If you review a contract and there's something you don't understand, that's when you consult your attorney.

This isn't the first time there have conversations on this website where HOA boards left EVERYTHING go the property manager and chaos ensued. This is why education is so important-if you don't know something and you know you don't know, go and find out. I often refer people to the CAI website which has educational materials on many HOA issues,from selecting and working with management companies to handling delinquencies. Go out there and take a look. Look through this website and search for conversations - you may not find a subject that matches exactly with your situation, but you'll get ideas on things you should consider.

In the meantime, pull out the management contract and read it, so you'll get an understanding of what they are paid to do and what they don't do. If you want more services, you'll need to see if they're offered and what they cost. That will mean you'll pay one and your assessments will have to be adjusted accordingly. If you've already set 2022 assessments, you may have wait until 2023 to factor in the new amount into the new budget

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 12/18/2021 9:40 AM
Not sure what Tim's implying, but your MC should not be giving you legal advice. They are not qualified to know about statutes of limitation, for instance and the difference between types o defects. Your board certainly can ask the MC to offer suggestions about your options.

You must read your contract with the MC, Phil. You are, it seems, expecting way too much from the MC especially since they don't even work on your promises. How in the world could your board expect the MC to "oversee" work on roofs????

You have NO chance of succeeding if your board won't spend a couple of hundred bucks to initially consult with an HOA or contract law attorney. It honestly sounds to me as if your Boar is NOT looking out after eh best interests of your HOA.

I guess whether it's worth consulting an attorney depends on how much it might cost to improve the appearance of the scuppers. It doesn't seem like that work would cost a ton of money. Maybe it would be cheaper to pay some other contractor to do the work on the scuppers than pay for legal assistance.

Well maybe we needed to hire someone to check on the construction company's work or to deal with some of the issues that came up while the work was being done. I didn't even realize we might need to hire someone in addition to do that. Most of the board members worked during the day so we couldn't be there to see what was going on while the roofers were there. I don't know if we would have known what to do anyway.

It seems like no one at our condo is very interested in being on the board or what happens to the condo. The other board members don't seem especially engaged. I became president of the board. I didn't want to do it but one else did either. I thought I might want to be on the board to know what's going on so that nothing bad would happen to condo.

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 12/18/2021 10:38 AM

Posted By PhilK3 on 12/17/2021 8:41 PM

I did look at the documents the management sent us to sign. Apparently, I and the rest of the board didn't completely understand them. I thought a management company was supposed to advise the board and keep us from making those kind of mistakes.

In a word, NO! A property manager can make recommendations, but even then, you have to apply careful thought to the issue before making a decision. If you review a contract and there's something you don't understand, that's when you consult your attorney.

This isn't the first time there have conversations on this website where HOA boards left EVERYTHING go the property manager and chaos ensued. This is why education is so important-if you don't know something and you know you don't know, go and find out. I often refer people to the CAI website which has educational materials on many HOA issues,from selecting and working with management companies to handling delinquencies. Go out there and take a look. Look through this website and search for conversations - you may not find a subject that matches exactly with your situation, but you'll get ideas on things you should consider.

In the meantime, pull out the management contract and read it, so you'll get an understanding of what they are paid to do and what they don't do. If you want more services, you'll need to see if they're offered and what they cost. That will mean you'll pay one and your assessments will have to be adjusted accordingly. If you've already set 2022 assessments, you may have wait until 2023 to factor in the new amount into the new budget

So, are you suggesting to take a CAI Board Leader Certificate Course for $199?

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I belong to a CAI Chapter in Southern California and used to be on their Educational Committee. We offered educational classes to board members within our area free of charge. Below is the classes we offered.

Basic Essentials-Insurance
Basic Essentials-Financials
Board Leadership-Part 1
Board Leadership Part 2
Advanced Developer Transition Part 1
Advanced Developer Transition Part 2
Basic Essentials-Manager
Basic Essentials-Legal
Advanced Essentials-Contracts and Maintenance
Advanced Essentials-Strategic Planning
Advanced Essentials-Reserve Studies

You might look into your local CAI Chapter and see what they offer.

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 12/18/2021 11:51 AM
I belong to a CAI Chapter in Southern California and used to be on their Educational Committee. We offered educational classes to board members within our area free of charge. Below is the classes we offered.

Basic Essentials-Insurance
Basic Essentials-Financials
Board Leadership-Part 1
Board Leadership Part 2
Advanced Developer Transition Part 1
Advanced Developer Transition Part 2
Basic Essentials-Manager
Basic Essentials-Legal
Advanced Essentials-Contracts and Maintenance
Advanced Essentials-Strategic Planning
Advanced Essentials-Reserve Studies

You might look into your local CAI Chapter and see what they offer.

Sounds good. I had contacted some organization like this a few years ago. They didn't seem to have much relevant for me. The courses that you listed look useful.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PhilK3 on 12/18/2021 10:48 AM

Well maybe we needed to hire someone to check on the construction company's work or to deal with some of the issues that came up while the work was being done. I didn't even realize we might need to hire someone in addition to do that.

I hope you intend to become familiar with what the manager's contract says. Because this seems to be part of the problem here. The Board and only the Board is legally responsible for what terms are in the manager's contract.

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 12/18/2021 12:01 PM

Posted By PhilK3 on 12/18/2021 10:48 AM

Well maybe we needed to hire someone to check on the construction company's work or to deal with some of the issues that came up while the work was being done. I didn't even realize we might need to hire someone in addition to do that.

I hope you intend to become familiar with what the manager's contract says. Because this seems to be part of the problem here. The Board and only the Board is legally responsible for what terms are in the manager's contract.

I'll have to check. I don't know if I've ever seen it.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Not necessarily. There should be webinars and books you can purchase. I believe there are group memberships you can buy so all board members can take a look at the magazine and its educational articles and get discounts on the books they want to purchase.

If there is a board leader certificate program, whats wrong with designating one person to take the class and then training everyone else, sort of like a train the trainer program? When I was on the board, I was designated the CAI representative and would attend local chapter seminars and then distribute the materials to everyone else and provide a summary of what was discussed.

It's about using one's imagination. Once you have the training, you could put together a board manual to store various policies and procedures and update them as you learn new things. And considering that your association may end up paying more money to fix the roofing mess, investing $199 in training to learn how you might avoid this in the future may be a good idea for your board.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PhilK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 12/18/2021 2:19 PM
Not necessarily. There should be webinars and books you can purchase. I believe there are group memberships you can buy so all board members can take a look at the magazine and its educational articles and get discounts on the books they want to purchase.

If there is a board leader certificate program, whats wrong with designating one person to take the class and then training everyone else, sort of like a train the trainer program? When I was on the board, I was designated the CAI representative and would attend local chapter seminars and then distribute the materials to everyone else and provide a summary of what was discussed.

It's about using one's imagination. Once you have the training, you could put together a board manual to store various policies and procedures and update them as you learn new things. And considering that your association may end up paying more money to fix the roofing mess, investing $199 in training to learn how you might avoid this in the future may be a good idea for your board.

I'll consider it.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

It seems like you don't have much support or guidance from your board colleagues. I also know see that this defect may be only aesthetics, so I don't know how far that can take you. It also now doesn not send like a very large repair.

But who will help you find out what to do next?