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WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
How far in advance do elections ballots need to be mailed to members in a Florida HOA community?
In the past, the annual meeting notice and packet were sent to members, which include the form for intent to run for an empty board seat and a proxie form.
Once intents were receive a ballot with sent out to the members prior to the annual membership meeting.

Our annual membership meeting is tonight at 7pm. Intent and proxie forms were due back to the Management firm on December 1st.
We have not received the ballots?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Your documents should have that information (check your bylaws, as they usually dictate how the association to be run). That said, why are you asking about this now if the meeting is tonight????

Usually, proxies are used to designate someone to attend the meeting and vote on your behalf. If you change your mind and show up, it should be canceled and you can cast a vote as usual. As a practical matter, it would have been easier if the ballots and proxies were sent at the same time - in fact they could be combined and the owner can dictate exactly how the proxy was to be used:

use to establish a quorum only so the meeting can be held
use to designate someone to attend on your behalf and vote on your behalf (sometimes you can designate a board member to do it)
use to establish a quorum and nominate yourself or someone else to serve on the board (and vote for him/her)

At least, this is how our community uses them.

At this point, you may as well plan to attend the meeting and cast your vote. Why not suggest the proxy and ballot be combined next time - they can be opened and counted at the beginning of the meeting to establish quorum and then used to conduct the election. The counting should be done by people who aren't running for a board seat and there should be at least two people doing the counting to ensure accuracy. They can compare the proxy/ballot to a list of eligible homeowners to ensure that person was eligible to vote (usually those behind in assessments aren't allowed to vote or run for the board. They shouldn't receive a ballot although they can still attend the meeting.)


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WandaB2 on 12/15/2021 6:55 AM
How far in advance do elections ballots need to be mailed to members in a Florida HOA community?
In the past, the annual meeting notice and packet were sent to members, which include the form for intent to run for an empty board seat and a proxie form.
Once intents were receive a ballot with sent out to the members prior to the annual membership meeting.

Our annual membership meeting is tonight at 7pm. Intent and proxie forms were due back to the Management firm on December 1st.
We have not received the ballots?

WandaB2, is this a condominium? I ask because this will determine which Florida statute applies. For now, read your Bylaws carefully to see what timeline (if any) is for sending out election materials such as proxies and legal notice in general.

WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Our Bylaws state "Article IV - Section 5. Proxies. At all meeting of members, each member shall vote in person."

Article IV - Section 3 (a). Notice of Meetings. Notice of any meeting called for the purpose of taking any action authorized under the Declaration shall be given to all members note less than thirty (30) days nor more than sixty (60) days in advance of such meeting by mail, postage prepaid, and addressed to each members' address last appearing on the books of the association...

However, or CCR's which over rule the Bylaws regarding the annual meeting state

"Said call shall be in writing, state the meeting's purpose, shall designate the date (which shall be no less that ten (10) days from the call is mailed, time and place of said meeting and shall be mailed by certified mail, return receipt requested, to all lot owners at the last address for the owners shown on the books and recorded by the Association or to the lot owners' addresses as shown on the Polk County Tax Rolls. The annual election of the board of directors, each year's annual assessments and business of the Association, shall be determined at said meeting by the affirmative written vote of a majority of those association members present, in person or by proxy at said meeting.

Our annual packets were not sent via certified mail. There was no board meeting prior to, with discussion regarding sending the packets via regular mail.

WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
No this is not a condominium. It is a single family community with 220 members/homes.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WandaB2 on 12/15/2021 7:41 AM
Our Bylaws state "Article IV - Section 5. Proxies. At all meeting of members, each member shall vote in person."

Article IV - Section 3 (a). Notice of Meetings. Notice of any meeting called for the purpose of taking any action authorized under the Declaration shall be given to all members note less than thirty (30) days nor more than sixty (60) days in advance of such meeting by mail, postage prepaid, and addressed to each members' address last appearing on the books of the association...

However, or CCR's which over rule the Bylaws regarding the annual meeting state

"Said call shall be in writing, state the meeting's purpose, shall designate the date (which shall be no less that ten (10) days from the call is mailed, time and place of said meeting and shall be mailed by certified mail, return receipt requested, to all lot owners at the last address for the owners shown on the books and recorded by the Association or to the lot owners' addresses as shown on the Polk County Tax Rolls. The annual election of the board of directors, each year's annual assessments and business of the Association, shall be determined at said meeting by the affirmative written vote of a majority of those association members present, in person or by proxy at said meeting.

Our annual packets were not sent via certified mail. There was no board meeting prior to, with discussion regarding sending the packets via regular mail.

WandaB2, the CCRs control (or "overrule") when there is a conflictbetween the bylaws and CCRs. With regard to the days the Bylaws specify and the days the CCRs specify, complying with the Bylaws results in compliance with the CCRs. There is no conflict.

FS 720 applies to your HOA, but FS 720 defers to the Bylaws when the Bylaws specify the notice requirements for days et cetera.
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Yes, I understand that the CCR's over rule the Bylaws.

The packets were "provided" within the allocated time frame.
However, being the CCR's states they are to be certified mail with return signature, how should this be addressed to the board?

Is there a violation to be addressed?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Bylaws don’t overrule CCRs – they have different functions. Your bylaws usually dictate how the Association is to be run, such as how many board members, length of term, whereas the CCRs usually address how the common area is used (this is where you may see rules regarding pets or getting prior approval for exterior changes). What you quoted sounds like it really came from the Bylaws, but ok.

Your Bylaws require meeting notices to be sent at least 30 days in advance, so when did you get yours? If the meeting is today, you should have received it in early November. Note I said received, not mailed – people often forget to factor in holidays (remember, Veterans Day which is always Nov. 11?) and weekends (no Sunday delivery of the mail). You may have also read that the Post Office is slowing down mail delivery everywhere (this is what happens when a dingdong with NO experience in mail delivery is appointed Postmaster General!), so it’s a good idea to allow a few extra days.

That said, the annual meeting packets don’t have to be sent certified mail – that costs more, and homeowners need to ensure the property manager or the board has their current contact information anyway. In my community, the board usually sets the annual meeting (held in February) during the September or October meeting, so our property manager knows exactly when to get the letters in the mail.

For the last two years, that date has been announced when the upcoming year’s annual budget is mailed (our bylaws require homeowners receive it by Dec. 1). In January, we’ll get our proxies – the annual meeting is on Feb. 18, so I expect them sometime during the week of Jan. 10 for the 2022 edition

It sounds like your board needs to do a little rethinking of the mail and the dates – as I said earlier, you need to be at that meeting tonight so you can vote and bring this up. Perhaps they’ve never thought of it before and can start reviewing the process now so changes can be made the next time this comes around.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Thank you all.

I do plan on attending, as many members in our community have expressed concerns on how the current board has been handling issues and selectively enforcing or not enforcing (depending on the member) rules and violations.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WandaB2 on 12/15/2021 8:00 AM

However, being the CCR's states they are to be certified mail with return signature, how should this be addressed to the board?

Is there a violation to be addressed?
Can you please quote the full section of the CCRs? In the CCR excerpt you quoted, I am not sure what exactly "the call" means. I need more context.

WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Please see attached - section 21
📎 Attachments (2):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄112153264871.pdf(72 KB)
📄1121532615754.pdf(70 KB)
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
WandaB2, thank you for attaching the relevant covenants.

I agree the covenant requires the Board/HOA to send the notification by certified mail.

In Florida and pursuant to FS 720, you can complain to the state DBPR about the election not being conducted properly (improper notice). See the statute at http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Yes, I have found the form to file complaint and will do so.
Thank you.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
If your CCRs state that the vote is in person or by proxy, where do ballots come into play?
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
The board and management company has required that all individuals who wish to run for an empty seat, submit their form and a letter/resume, if they choose, by December 1st. They indicated the December 1st due date so that the ballots could be mailed to the members prior to the annual meeting.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
It could be that there was no one running for an empty seat so ballots did not need to be mailed. If no one runs, the candidates who are currently on the board are automatically re-elected. If there are empty seats and no candidates, the board can usually appoint someone.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 12/15/2021 10:10 AM
It could be that there was no one running for an empty seat so ballots did not need to be mailed. If no one runs, the candidates who are currently on the board are automatically re-elected. If there are empty seats and no candidates, the board can usually appoint someone.

I agree that something like this has occurred. It could also be less or equal to the amount of vacancies are running. One way or another an election is not required.

Our HOA allows nominations from the floor so we do not prepare a ballot until just before the election at the Annual Meeting. That said, only once in 5 years did we have more running then open seats thus requiring an election.
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Yes, I understand that no ballots are needed if there is no one has submitted their intent to run. However, I know of one individual whom has submitted their intent. Could it be that this individual is the only one who submitted intent and a vote will not be needed?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WandaB2 on 12/15/2021 10:52 AM
Yes, I understand that no ballots are needed if there is no one has submitted their intent to run. However, I know of one individual whom has submitted their intent. Could it be that this individual is the only one who submitted intent and a vote will not be needed?


Yes, it could be and unless the BOD is pulling a fast one, this is probably the answer.
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
JohnC46 - you are correct in saying the board was trying to pull a fast one. The proxy forms stated they were to be handed in by December 1, 2021. However, there were over 20 proxies signed and dated on or after December 11 2021. This was done to stack the odds in favor to of the current president once they found out a member had submitted their name to run for the empty seat. It was brought to the attention of the management company that those proxies should be invalid because they were not signed or received, as instructed on the form, by December 1, 2021.

The management represented stated that per the 720 proxies were permitted. A member object on the fact that the proxy clearly states must be submitted no later than December 1, 2021.

Yes section 306 of the 720 states voting by proxy is permitted. Our CCR's allow voting by proxy. I have no problem with voting by proxy, however, if the association published on the proxy form that it was to be submitted by a certain date, any proxy signed and received after that date should be invalid.

Is there just cause for this election to be disputed and submitted to mandatory binding arbitration?

Should a formal complaint be filed against the management representative with the DBPR for misrepresenting the information on the proxy form and/or for not sending out the annual meeting notice certified mail as stated in our CCR's?

📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📝112154519771.doc(144 KB)
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
JohnC46 - you are correct in saying the board was trying to pull a fast one. The proxy forms stated they were to be handed in by December 1, 2021. However, there were over 20 proxies signed and dated on or after December 11 2021. This was done to stack the odds in favor to of the current president once they found out a member had submitted their name to run for the empty seat. It was brought to the attention of the management company that those proxies should be invalid because they were not signed or received, as instructed on the form, by December 1, 2021.

The management represented stated that per the 720 proxies were permitted. A member object on the fact that the proxy clearly states must be submitted no later than December 1, 2021.

Yes section 306 of the 720 states voting by proxy is permitted. Our CCR's allow voting by proxy. I have no problem with voting by proxy, however, if the association published on the proxy form that it was to be submitted by a certain date, any proxy signed and received after that date should be invalid.

Is there just cause for this election to be disputed and submitted to mandatory binding arbitration?

Should a formal complaint be filed against the management representative with the DBPR for misrepresenting the information on the proxy form and/or for not sending out the annual meeting notice certified mail as stated in our CCR's?

📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📝1121545626971.doc(144 KB)
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Hi,

Something went very wrong here, but your governing documents are supposed to have this information.

Ideally, owners would receive ballots at least 30 days in advance.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If you're going to file a complaint, it should be against the board. The property manager works at the board's direction, so someone should have read the proxy form to ensure everything was covered and easy to understand before it was mailed.

In the meantime, you may need more information before accusing the president of stacking the deck against the member who submitted his/her name for the open seat (why does that sound like you?) You may be right, but keep emotion out of it - it's unnecessary if you simply stick to referring to the dates of the questionable proxies. As for arbitration, both sides have to agree to it, so if you think there's cause for this election to be disputed and the board doesn't you may end up taking it court, although I personally prefer arbitration because it's usually cheaper and sometimes you can meet in the middle on agreeing to a resolution.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Yes, our CCR's state voting by proxy is permitted. Our CCR's do not give a time frame with the proxies must be returned and/or presented to the association.

The dispute is the instructions on the proxy form clearly states "Date, sign and return this proxy form by mail so that it reaches the association no later than December 1, 2021."

In addition to the proxies being signed after December 1, 2021, they were not mailed to the association and/or management company as instructed on the proxy form..

I have filed a complaint with the DPBR regarding the proxies and that our annual membership meeting notice was not sent via certified mail as stated in our CCR's.

The dispute should also be recorded in our minutes. Will be sending a request via certified mail for the minutes of the meeting. Florida 720 states requests for records msut be sent via certified mail.

Once I hear back from the DPBR, I will file an election dispute thru arbitration.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Wanda

I think you are confusing Ballots and Proxies. They are not the same thing. I can understand a deadline on Ballots but I say Proxies can be given right up meeting check-in.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
It seems to me that your property management company created an artificial deadline for the proxies. Who decided that Dec. 1 was the deadline if it's not in your documents? Deadlines for notices and ballot mailings is one thing. I may have missed it, but I didn't see a deadline for the actual ballots and proxies in what you posted other than what was written by the management company.

Also, we don't open up the proxies until the day of the election. They are in sealed envelopes. So how is the current President campaigning and soliciting proxies a problem? Most likely that person didn't know whose name was on the proxies.
WandaB2 (Florida)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Hi Lori,

Please attachment on above posted time stamped 12/16/2021 2:03 AM
This is the proxy with date state to be returned.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
In California, each association is required to have a set of Election Rules, specific to their association. Proxies, while they be allowed, are not required to be prepared or sent out by an association, unless required by their Bylaws. I don't have any that do, and so I have sent out in 11 years.

Elections are mentioned in Bylaws here, but all the specifics will be outline in the Election Rules. The ones I prepare are 18 pages long and are updated to current law effective Jan 2020.

Proxies can be obtained by a number of different people within an association. Many people may go door to door soliciting proxies and then bring them in person to the meeting to obtain quorum or to vote a ballot(s). A proxy is not a secret ballot. How the owner voted is in black and white for the proxyholder to see.

California might be a pain in the butt on regulation, but we have two legs up on any other state.

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