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TonyN2 (Illinois)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Under a scenerio where there is a master association that has rules & regulations to keep the specefic outside appearences of balcony sliding doors the same across all buildings - is it the master association that enforces their rules or is the sub association supposed to? Can a sub association chose to not enforce an umbrella rule & regulation?

Under normal circumstances, the sub association would take down measurements and confirm these things with the owner before the process begins to avoid problems. Unfortunately, years and many owners ago, someone replaces their sliding door and it's different. Now, a new owner (who had nothing to do with it), inherited this problem. The umbrella board would like to enforce their rule and make the owner pay and change their door out in the next few weeks and they are asking the sub association to enforce it on the owner. My question is, what happens if the owner choses to sue? Which association is liable? For fines, is it the master or sub that invoices?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TonyN2 on 12/08/2021 6:21 AM
Under a scenerio where there is a master association that has rules & regulations to keep the specefic outside appearences of balcony sliding doors the same across all buildings - is it the master association that enforces their rules or is the sub association supposed to? Can a sub association chose to not enforce an umbrella rule & regulation?

Under normal circumstances, the sub association would take down measurements and confirm these things with the owner before the process begins to avoid problems. Unfortunately, years and many owners ago, someone replaces their sliding door and it's different. Now, a new owner (who had nothing to do with it), inherited this problem. The umbrella board would like to enforce their rule and make the owner pay and change their door out in the next few weeks and they are asking the sub association to enforce it on the owner. My question is, what happens if the owner choses to sue? Which association is liable? For fines, is it the master or sub that invoices?
The first thing I would do is read the Master Association Declaration and Bylaws, homing in on the sections that speak of rule-making authority and what the powers of the Master Association Board are. Do the same for the Sub Association's Declaration and Bylaws. Report back here.

Often the Bylaws or Declaration speak about how the Board has the power to enforce its rules and regulations.

I am skeptical that a section of the Bylaws or Declarations says something like, "the sub association board shall take orders from the Master association board with regard to Master Association rules enforcement." But I could be wrong.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Where is the restriction on sliding doors: in the master CC&Rs or in the sub-association CC&Rs?

How are the community's boards organized: a single board with members from both the master and sub-associations, or separate boards for the master and sub-associations?

How are you insured: a single policy for the entire community or separate policies for the master and sub-associations?

That should tell you who is responsible for enforcement and where the liability falls (double-check with your insurer, though). You may need to consider what happens if the sub-association fails to enforce: does the responsibility fall onto the master? DO the CC&Rs address this?

I can understand why the new owner would be upset. Two comments: One, if the new owner received an estoppel letter stating that there were no outstanding violations, then the association is stuck - the best you could do would be to note the violation and maybe come to an agreement that the door needs to be brought into compliance when it is replaced. Two, when I asked our attorney about a similar situation in my community, he said that buyers are responsible for understanding the CC&Rs and the association could enforce the restriction even after several years of non-enforcement. (Note: my state is very much a caveat emptor state, and my CC&Rs contain a statement saying that failure to enforce any provision of the CC&Rs does not preclude enforcement in the future. So take my second point and the lawyer's opinion with a grain of salt - your state and CC&Rs may say otherwise.)
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
This seems to be a good introduction to the master/sub association relations:

https://independentamericancommunities.com/2019/02/02/what-is-an-hoa-master-association/
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
First, you could have one master association and six sub associations under the master. Each of them conceivably have their own management company.

Typically, the management company for the master association will handle any compliance issue on their own. Any grievance would be handle through the master association board.
TonyN2 (Illinois)
Posts: 62
Posted:
These are my findings from the Master Association’s Declarations. Excuse the random highlighting.

Declarations
4.02 Collecting the cost from owner, since the RA didn’t make the mistake
7.02 RA will collect "as an agent" of the "UA"
7.03 UA shall give action about payment
11.02 UA is to give notices about enforcing their UA rules & regulations, this is why we provide you a list of unit owner details.

ILCPA
18.5 (7) the board of the UA will enforce, after notice to the owner

22.1 (8) 309 bought his unit + sliding doors in good faith

HOAtalk didn’t let me upload the image so here it is on another website: https://ibb.co/Qv3jmT9

-

To me, it looks like the sub association doesn’t get involved in this matter? The rules & regulations are from the master association, not the sub association. Anything I’m missing here? The Master Association would like the Sub Association to enforce the Master Associations rules by taking action against the owner moving forward.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
RA = Residential Association (a.k.a. Sub Association)
UA = Umbrella Association (a.k.a. Master Association)

HOAtalk.com only allows pdf files under 200 kbyte to be attached? I converted what the OP provided at his/her link as a pdf file.

I cannot at present locate ILCPA 18.5 (7) at https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2200&ChapterID=62 . Can you please quote verbatim what you found in the statute?

I will say one of the problems with the scenario described is that the current owner may have had disclosed to him by the HOA at the time of purchase that the unit had no violations. If so, it's not fair to tag the current owner for this violation.
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TonyN2 (Illinois)
Posts: 62
Posted:
First of all thank you for adding that PDF and for clarifying the forum only takes PDF. Noted!

Here is what I was referring to 18.5 (7)

(7) The board of the master association or a common

interest community association shall have the power, after notice and an opportunity to be heard, to levy and collect reasonable fines from members for violations of the declaration, bylaws, and rules and regulations of the master association or the common interest community association. Nothing contained in this subdivision (7) shall give rise to a statutory lien for unpaid fines.

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