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TonyN2 (Illinois)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Hello, I'd like to organize and store all documents and have them updated on google drive. I'm hoping this would be a great resource for our board to use and view things quickly.

Is putting information like this on drive legal? I don't want to have any potential law suits.

Thank you
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Have you asked the association attorney? If not, do it. Most of us aren't attorneys, many may not live in your state and security and access of association documents (and other legal documents, for that matter) continues to evolve and cha as the technology changes.If

There's also the matter of who will manage the user IDs and passwords to Google drive, how to prevent permanent records from being edited, handling homeowner requests for documents (they don't get access to EVERYTHING), and so and so on.

You didn't say If you have a property management company for your community - if so, why not talk to them about document retention ? - they may already have something established for their clients. For that matter, talk to your association master insurance company, as fulfillment to ensure you're doing this properly to reduce risk.

You got a helluva lot more things to think about - the "is this legal" questions are just a piece of the puzzle. And on top of everything else, you need a formal documentation retention and destruction policy. Have fun at your meetings with the attorney (yes, you may need more than one....)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
TonyN2,

I use my personal Microsoft 365 OneDrive to store all association documents. I can create links to give access to other board members (none of which care). It works for me.

I would ignore Shelia's comments above. She writes at the whim of her imagination about how things SHOULD be done, but in reality, we are volunteers. My understanding is the courts use the guidance of "was this decision reasonable" and in my opinion it is reasonable to store assocation documents on Google drive.

Shelia once suggested board members should setup an on call rotation where one board member would pick each night to be a on call person who would get all of the middle of the night phone calls from homeowners with emergency problems. I will say that tipped me over the edge. Board volunteers shouldn't be "on call" or setup an on call rotation. We are volunteers and not paid staff. On call is hard enough with paid staff, and not reasonable for volunteers.

TonyN2 (Illinois)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Well I appreciate both answers regardless. Nice intro to the both of you, lol.

Okay I just don't want to "leak" owner details if anyone can share the link. Perhaps I'll make that kind of info private.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TonyN2 on 11/27/2021 7:55 AM
Well I appreciate both answers regardless. Nice intro to the both of you, lol.

Okay I just don't want to "leak" owner details if anyone can share the link. Perhaps I'll make that kind of info private.

I guess writing that way I should probably explain a bit more. I don't share links to my Microsoft OneDrive with anyone, with rare exceptions. I was asked to share a link to the project Excel file that I use to keep track of everything we're working on, so I created a special link for that file only. Other than that, my enire OneDrive folder is accessible only to me. I have about 2.65 gigabytes of data there. If another board member was interested, I could share the link with them, but no one else has shown sincere interest and thus I have no need to share it.

Google Drive, I believe, allows for authentication, so you have to login to your Google account in order to login to your Google Drive. (Microsoft OneDrive might as well). Then you can add and remove board members as people come and go, and links can't just be shared with random homeowners.

If you can swing it, I highly recommend hiring a property manager who can help with the official records retention, so the Google Drive / Microsoft OneDrive / etc is just for your use only and you aren't becoming the official records minder for the organization. Being the official records minder would be a position very hard to depart from if in a few years your interest changes and you no longer wish to be on the board.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
At a minimum I would create a Google account solely for HOA use and not do this with your private Google account.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
There are a lot of articles on the web that talk about this in more detail. In addition to running it by the HOA attorney, also talk to your insurer.

Here are some reasons to look at cloud storage:

* ease of access, including independence from a particular platform (Windows vs. Apple vs. Unix as well as proprietary software used by property management companies).
* easy backup and recovery (many HOAs don't even think about disaster recovery).
* security.

Google has pretty robust security (to the point of driving users crazy occasionally). In general you're better off with the big names since they've had the time and resources to provide an excellent product, but their size can also make them attractive targets for the bad guys. Anything on the internet can be hacked by someone skilled and determined enough - it just goes with territory.

Another thing to think about is guaranteed uptime, which most of the big names will have in their terms of service. But there have been a few incidents recently when issues in some of the big cloud storage providers like Amazon have taken down chunks of the internet for several hours. HOAs are more able to tolerate downtime than large multi-national corporations, but you still shouldn't expect 100% availability.

Your HOA should develop a records retention policy (again there are examples on the web). You should also have guidelines for the person(s) administering your data systems, and don't take any shortcuts with security. As far as getting sued about any of this, keep in mind that anybody can sue anybody else for any reason - but that doesn't mean they'll win in court. If you stick to "brand name" service providers who have track records of providing safe and reliable products, it would be hard to make a case that the board has done something risky or irresponsible. (Usual disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer.)

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/27/2021 8:29 AM
At a minimum I would create a Google account solely for HOA use and not do this with your private Google account.

You can setup separate drives on your Google Account for different audiences. Why would you not use a personal account?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/27/2021 8:32 AM
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/27/2021 8:29 AM
At a minimum I would create a Google account solely for HOA use and not do this with your private Google account.


You can setup separate drives on your Google Account for different audiences. Why would you not use a personal account?

What happens when you sell your home or just get sick of being on the board? What happens if you get hit by a bus?

HOAs should have their own separate accounts, period. Anybody who has done data security or financial systems auditing would have the vapors over this.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/27/2021 8:39 AM
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/27/2021 8:32 AM
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/27/2021 8:29 AM
At a minimum I would create a Google account solely for HOA use and not do this with your private Google account.


You can setup separate drives on your Google Account for different audiences. Why would you not use a personal account?


What happens when you sell your home or just get sick of being on the board? What happens if you get hit by a bus?

HOAs should have their own separate accounts, period. Anybody who has done data security or financial systems auditing would have the vapors over this.

I use a personal computer for conducting board business. Should I stop doing this and ask the association to purchase an association owned laptop for me to use instead?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you on the Board, Tony?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/27/2021 8:49 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/27/2021 8:39 AM
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/27/2021 8:32 AM
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/27/2021 8:29 AM
At a minimum I would create a Google account solely for HOA use and not do this with your private Google account.


You can setup separate drives on your Google Account for different audiences. Why would you not use a personal account?


What happens when you sell your home or just get sick of being on the board? What happens if you get hit by a bus?

HOAs should have their own separate accounts, period. Anybody who has done data security or financial systems auditing would have the vapors over this.


I use a personal computer for conducting board business. Should I stop doing this and ask the association to purchase an association owned laptop for me to use instead?

I'm agnostic on this, and it depends on what you're doing on the computer. Many cloud-based systems are accessed on personal computers, and security from their end can help address the weaknesses of those computers. That said, many big corporations won't let their employees work from home on personal laptops because they pose a security risk, and those that do many require the employees to install additional software on their home systems. Employees who work on data that's behind the corporate firewall can't be allowed to tunnel through from the outside.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/27/2021 9:04 AM
.... snip ...

I use a personal computer for conducting board business. Should I stop doing this and ask the association to purchase an association owned laptop for me to use instead?


I'm agnostic on this, and it depends on what you're doing on the computer. Many cloud-based systems are accessed on personal computers, and security from their end can help address the weaknesses of those computers. That said, many big corporations won't let their employees work from home on personal laptops because they pose a security risk, and those that do many require the employees to install additional software on their home systems. Employees who work on data that's behind the corporate firewall can't be allowed to tunnel through from the outside.

I'm going to flesh this out a bit:

Doing things like writing newsletters on personal computers is fine.

Contrast this with keeping confidential information on that computer - for example: collection or foreclosure activities, or contracts currently in negotiation, or a lawsuit in progress. Home computers usually have pretty lame security on them (lame compared to what is required for handling your employer's data). Suppose you have a blabbermouth spouse or kid who's insatiably curious and who decides to have a look. Now that confidential info is floating around the neighborhood, maybe on Facebook, and you've breached attorney-client privilege.

Buying a separate laptop for HOA use only won't solve that problem, although keeping the data in the cloud may solve it since the cloud security will assume that stupid stuff like I've just mentioned can occur. Which is why I said I'm agnostic about the HOA buying its own hardware (which it then has to maintain).

Keeping corporate data in your personal account is a different issue. You personally don't own that data, but you have the ability to trash it if you happen to get your shorts in a bunch over something. Or nobody can get to it if you're in the ICU in a coma, or you're alive and well but decide to hold the data hostage for some reason. Or you decide to indulge in a spot of embezzlement and change the records to hide this. There is nothing stopping this from happening. You personally don't have the same reaction to serious risks like this (obviously since I'm having the vapors over it and you're not). The HOA auditor should also be breaking out in hives.

HOA data, especially the confidential stuff, belongs on HOA-owned and properly secured resources.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Now, I am seriously confused by Cathy's post. Is she saying that association directors should be using equipment purchased by the association to conduct association business?
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/27/2021 12:28 PM
Now, I am seriously confused by Cathy's post. Is she saying that association directors should be using equipment purchased by the association to conduct association business?

That is what I gather from her post.

I don't think that is a reasonable expectation for most homeowner associations. We have a $274,000 annual budget and our homeowners would flip out if they knew we used their dues to buy ourselves computers, software, internet access, and cloud storage.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with using a personal Google drive or Microsoft OneDrive account for data storage. I highly recommend Microsoft OneDrive over Google Drive but that is my personal opinion.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Part of what is being said is no matter how you electronically keep records off site, more then one person should have access to them in case something happens to the other person(s). As in know the procedure and any passwords to be able to get at the data.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/27/2021 1:41 PM
Part of what is being said is no matter how you electronically keep records off site, more then one person should have access to them in case something happens to the other person(s). As in know the procedure and any passwords to be able to get at the data.

YES!! Someone gets it.

That's the problem with keeping HOA data inside a personal account. Nobody has legal access to that account other than the owner of the account. If the owner dies or the relationship turns sour, the HOA is looking at hiring a lawyer to get at their information. It's just a high tech version of a former board member refusing to turn over paper records.

And to repeat what I said in an earlier response:

"Buying a separate laptop for HOA use only won't solve that problem, although keeping the data in the cloud may solve it since the cloud security will assume that stupid stuff like I've just mentioned can occur. Which is why I said I'm agnostic about the HOA buying its own hardware (which it then has to maintain)."

Having HOA (confidential) data sitting on anybody's (poorly secured) laptop is a separate issue and also a problem. But the OP's question was about using Cloud storage, which can solve that problem unless people download and store the data on the laptops. If people keep separate copies of the data on laptops, not only do you have problems with unauthorized access, you also have the issue of knowing which version is the most recent one. Cloud storage along with a decent security policy should address these issues.

Using technology can solve old problems, but it also introduces new issues. Board members need to understand these issues since "fiduciary duty" applies to all of the HOA's assets, and that includes their records.
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
I should clarify.

My storing files on Microsoft OneDrive isn't for the "official record retention location for Henry's HOA". Rather, I store stuff there that is of interest to me and that I can use for future reference. We have a property manager who presumably keeps records officially for the organization. I would encourage others to hire a property manager for official record retention, but then use cloud storage as they see fit to benefit the association.

If anybody else cared, I'd be happy to mail the PM or the other board members a thumb drive with all of the HOA records that I have on it so someone else had them. None have expressed any interest in that, so I haven't yet.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
It occurs to me that I may have identified a business opportunity. There is a lot of helpful info on the web for HOA board members and PMs, but I can't remember seeing much of anything that discusses the use of technology, data security, and best practices. The self managed associations are sort of on their own.

Hmmmmm...
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/28/2021 6:32 AM
I should clarify.

My storing files on Microsoft OneDrive isn't for the "official record retention location for Henry's HOA". Rather, I store stuff there that is of interest to me and that I can use for future reference. We have a property manager who presumably keeps records officially for the organization. I would encourage others to hire a property manager for official record retention, but then use cloud storage as they see fit to benefit the association.

If anybody else cared, I'd be happy to mail the PM or the other board members a thumb drive with all of the HOA records that I have on it so someone else had them. None have expressed any interest in that, so I haven't yet.

That's better, but still not 100% great.

You still have the issue of knowing which version of the information is the current one. For documents like the CC&Rs and other things that don't change, that won't matter.

You still have the issue of possible unauthorized access. If you're not storing confidential or sensitive info, that's less worrisome.

Re: that thumb drive - thumb drives are a good source of malicious software. Unless you're 100% sure the owner of the thumb drive is 100% vigilant about securing their own machine, you're taking a risk. I personally don't trust anybody that much, not even myself. (Interesting fact: thumb drives are a favorite tool for bad guys to get access to corporate data, especially if they can get into physical facilities. They stroll around looking businesslike until they find an unattended computer, stick in the thumb drive, and the malicious software deploys. They're now inside the corporate network.)

Your HOA should have a policy that addresses disaster recovery, among other things. A single copy of your information (paper or electronic) is vulnerable to damage or to things like ransomware attacks. The latter is just one thumb drive or dubious email link away. Usually the bad guys are more interested in big targets, but enough personal computer users have lost their data as well.

You can't be too paranoid when it comes to data security. :-)

HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/28/2021 7:26 AM
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/28/2021 6:32 AM
I should clarify.

My storing files on Microsoft OneDrive isn't for the "official record retention location for Henry's HOA". Rather, I store stuff there that is of interest to me and that I can use for future reference. We have a property manager who presumably keeps records officially for the organization. I would encourage others to hire a property manager for official record retention, but then use cloud storage as they see fit to benefit the association.

If anybody else cared, I'd be happy to mail the PM or the other board members a thumb drive with all of the HOA records that I have on it so someone else had them. None have expressed any interest in that, so I haven't yet.


That's better, but still not 100% great.

You still have the issue of knowing which version of the information is the current one. For documents like the CC&Rs and other things that don't change, that won't matter.

You still have the issue of possible unauthorized access. If you're not storing confidential or sensitive info, that's less worrisome.

Re: that thumb drive - thumb drives are a good source of malicious software. Unless you're 100% sure the owner of the thumb drive is 100% vigilant about securing their own machine, you're taking a risk. I personally don't trust anybody that much, not even myself. (Interesting fact: thumb drives are a favorite tool for bad guys to get access to corporate data, especially if they can get into physical facilities. They stroll around looking businesslike until they find an unattended computer, stick in the thumb drive, and the malicious software deploys. They're now inside the corporate network.)

Your HOA should have a policy that addresses disaster recovery, among other things. A single copy of your information (paper or electronic) is vulnerable to damage or to things like ransomware attacks. The latter is just one thumb drive or dubious email link away. Usually the bad guys are more interested in big targets, but enough personal computer users have lost their data as well.

You can't be too paranoid when it comes to data security. :-)


You obviously take storing data to be of high importance, but I'll remind you that we are volunteers working on tight budgets with limited resources. At this point in time, most other board members simply store everything in their e-mail. I am an outlier to have it stored on a folder on my computer (OneDrive in my case).

We are volunteers. Homeowners don't want to pay for top notch security that would be more appropriate for government contractors. And as volunteers we do not have the time to invest in security the same way professionals do at for profit corporations.

Sorry.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS7 on 11/28/2021 7:35 AM
...

... snip ...

You obviously take storing data to be of high importance, but I'll remind you that we are volunteers working on tight budgets with limited resources. At this point in time, most other board members simply store everything in their e-mail. I am an outlier to have it stored on a folder on my computer (OneDrive in my case).

We are volunteers. Homeowners don't want to pay for top notch security that would be more appropriate for government contractors. And as volunteers we do not have the time to invest in security the same way professionals do at for profit corporations.

Sorry.

I understand that, I did the volunteer bit for almost 15 years, I dealt with my share of tight budgets.

But smarts don't have to be expensive. What started this was the suggestion that the OP simply create a separate drives in their personal Google account. That's penny wise and dollar foolish, since the potential consequences of doing it that way can outweigh the few dollars the HOA would save by not having their own Google account. And the OP was concerned about the board getting sued over putting data in the cloud - following best practices is a good way to avoid liability, while taking shortcuts can create unexpected risks.

But... not my circus, not my monkeys...
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, these responses are interesting. Henry thought I was acting as if HOA volunteers should spend their lives on HOA stuff. Yet, the responses of some folks contain elements of what I was trying to convey to the OP!

I don't use the "but we're volunteers" as an excuse for winging it with association issues. Everyone has his/her own ideas of how things should be done and that's ok, but this isn't the same as, say, volunteering for an afternoon's work at a food bank (which I did two weeks ago). You are talking about permanent records, many of which will reflect the official LEGAL activities of the association. Handling those records should be taken seriously - the OP understands that, hence the question that sparked the conversation.

So, Henry, we will agree to disagree and the OP can use some, none of all of what's been suggested. I never said don't use cloud storage - I think it's a great idea. I also think checks and balances are important at the onset to prevent things like: people leaving the board and still having access to sensitive association documents, or sharing information on homeowner A with homeowner B for whatever reason, accidentally on purpose purging the cloud records to hide embezzlement, and on and on.

But hey, if you think it's ok to use your personal cloud accounts for association business, have at it. Just remember if there's a lawsuit, you may be compelled to provide everything in that account as part of this discovery process - do you want your personal data mixed in with all that (because the court may make you produce everything so both sides can identify and provide the relevant stuff).


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 11/28/2021 6:26 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 11/27/2021 1:41 PM
Part of what is being said is no matter how you electronically keep records off site, more then one person should have access to them in case something happens to the other person(s). As in know the procedure and any passwords to be able to get at the data.


YES!! Someone gets it.

That's the problem with keeping HOA data inside a personal account. Nobody has legal access to that account other than the owner of the account. If the owner dies or the relationship turns sour, the HOA is looking at hiring a lawyer to get at their information. It's just a high tech version of a former board member refusing to turn over paper records.

And to repeat what I said in an earlier response:

"Buying a separate laptop for HOA use only won't solve that problem, although keeping the data in the cloud may solve it since the cloud security will assume that stupid stuff like I've just mentioned can occur. Which is why I said I'm agnostic about the HOA buying its own hardware (which it then has to maintain)."

Having HOA (confidential) data sitting on anybody's (poorly secured) laptop is a separate issue and also a problem. But the OP's question was about using Cloud storage, which can solve that problem unless people download and store the data on the laptops. If people keep separate copies of the data on laptops, not only do you have problems with unauthorized access, you also have the issue of knowing which version is the most recent one. Cloud storage along with a decent security policy should address these issues.

Using technology can solve old problems, but it also introduces new issues. Board members need to understand these issues since "fiduciary duty" applies to all of the HOA's assets, and that includes their records.

What do you do when the association has a management company involved?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Oddly enough this popped up on my feed today:

https://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2021/11/24/security-tips-for-managing-the-associations-bank-accounts-online/

Among other things, the post's author recommends:

"2. Have a dedicated computer for conducting the association’s online banking, and make sure that computer stays current with anti-virus protection and updates. If the dedicated computer is a laptop, never conduct online banking in public spaces or use public Wi-Fi.

... snip ....

5. Reconcile your bank accounts on a regular basis – ideally daily – to avoid an irregularity going unnoticed. Inquire whether your bank sends alerts for transactions over a certain amount or if your account drops below a certain amount for added protection."

Just in case anyone thinks that what I recommended was overkill...

Boards of associations that are self-managed need to be aware of this stuff. If you employ a property manager, the board should have a discussion with them regarding their data handling procedures. Also consider including something about it in your request for proposal if you're looking for a new PM. If something goes wrong, it's the board whose heads will roll.
WalterH3 (Oregon)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Does anyone know if there are any use restrictions by Google that would prevent an HOA from signing up for Google Drive through Google One (rather than Google Workspace) to store HOA documents, accessible by authorized Board members?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Have you asked Google? There should be some FAQs or something regarding Google Drive vs. Google One vs. Google Workspace that will help, and there are other cloud based storage options you can explore.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Great to see you are thinking about modernizing document storage. I would just suggest using a login and password shared by the entire board (or give everyone full access). This way, if someone leaves suddenly, the others aren't locked out.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
There are some really "Neat" products sold on the open market that is designed for the end user to scan documents. combine one of those "neat"
products and a 4TB drive, you have endless document storage without any reoccurring fees billed to the association.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The advantages of using something like Google Drive are that the association doesn't need to worry about physical storage or technological obsolescence - that's Google's problem. As long as the association is using fairly up-to-date software, then their records should be accessible. Emphasis on "should", though - having been in tech since the late 80s, I wouldn't bet my life savings on it. The only thing that is truly immune from obsolescence is paper, and that has many other vulnerabilities - including things like fire, floods, rodent or bug infestations, and boards that manage to lose the records (ahem).

With things like Google cloud solutions, though, you always have to be concerned about who else besides you has access to the data. While it's unlikely that the association will be hiding state secrets or other things that you don't want prying eyes to see, I think it's realistic to assume that your records are being used to train up AI products. And if the courts don't manage to shoot down the CTA and other laws of that ilk, I can see the government accessing other so-called private records. Yes, I'm paranoid about this stuff due to personal and professional experience. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

The board in my community is re-visiting the question of record retention (ahem), and there is no method that I trust completely. That said, a board can make a good case for cloud storage offered by a tech giant like Google as a responsible choice and that's where I'm leaning at the moment. I want something that future board members can't lose (although I wouldn't bet my life savings that they can't).

And assume that your boards will have to re-visit this issue as technology changes.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 12/15/2024 5:23 PM
There are some really "Neat" products sold on the open market that is designed for the end user to scan documents. combine one of those "neat"
products and a 4TB drive, you have endless document storage without any reoccurring fees billed to the association.

until someone drops it or looses the drive. sorry I think google online is more secure. I back up the drive documents every month which is over kill since dues are only collected once a year.

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WalterH3 on 12/10/2024 7:37 PM
Does anyone know if there are any use restrictions by Google that would prevent an HOA from signing up for Google Drive through Google One (rather than Google Workspace) to store HOA documents, accessible by authorized Board members?

google ONE is just a normal private gmail account right?
there are no restirctions, but for $6 a month for a basic workspace account with google meets included for online meetings it's worth it. Together with an AI software like otter or fireflies to transcribe, record and summarize meetings it's a win/win. now google does it's best to tell you the lowest price is $20 a month and hides the cheaper package but it's there.

vis ta vie

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