RichardE10 (California)
Posts: 18
Posts: 18
Posted:
What happens when a board doesn't follow the bylaws, whether by lack of knowledge or intentionally?
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When bylaws arent followed
Started by RichardE10 • 16 replies • 958 views
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MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Look at your documents for that answer. Do you have the ability to fine? Recoup costs? Do you have a fining schedule? Was the rule they were ignoring viable? Life style change and the rules are old. I would consider updating your documents if it has rules that no longer make sense in today's world.
Former HOA President
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Normally your only options (other than simply reminding them of the bylaws) is to vote them out or file a lawsuit. Some HOAs also have a recall option.
As with any case, you have to decide if the violation is worth the trouble and potential costs. You have to ask yourself, is it causing any real harm?
As with any case, you have to decide if the violation is worth the trouble and potential costs. You have to ask yourself, is it causing any real harm?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardE10 on 11/08/2021 5:27 AM
What happens when a board doesn't follow the bylaws, whether by lack of knowledge or intentionally?
What happens when a board doesn't follow the bylaws, whether by lack of knowledge or intentionally?
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posts: 858
Posted:
Please follow the advice that AugustinD gave or got to a Board meeting and explain your concern.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/08/2021 5:52 AM
Look at your documents for that answer. Do you have the ability to fine? Recoup costs? Do you have a fining schedule? Was the rule they were ignoring viable? Life style change and the rules are old. I would consider updating your documents if it has rules that no longer make sense in today's world.
Look at your documents for that answer. Do you have the ability to fine? Recoup costs? Do you have a fining schedule? Was the rule they were ignoring viable? Life style change and the rules are old. I would consider updating your documents if it has rules that no longer make sense in today's world.
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MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardE10 on 11/08/2021 5:27 AM
What happens when a board doesn't follow the bylaws, whether by lack of knowledge or intentionally?
What happens when a board doesn't follow the bylaws, whether by lack of knowledge or intentionally?
What do you mean? The statement is about as broad as the ocean is wide.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Please give us two examples of Bylaws that aren't being followed, Richard. I request this because many posters get Bylaws, Rules & Regs nd CC&Rs mixed up. I think we need to understand what in particular concerns you.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oh, I see & now recall, Richard, that you're ON the Board.
Will the other dis rectors listen to your property manager if you have one? And s/he's knowledgeable?
Or....will a majority of the Board agree that that you can ask your HOA attorney about these particular Bylaws?
Will the other dis rectors listen to your property manager if you have one? And s/he's knowledgeable?
Or....will a majority of the Board agree that that you can ask your HOA attorney about these particular Bylaws?
SarahV4 (California)
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
I recently joined a board (self-managed) very where bylaws were not strictly followed, and haven't been updated in decades. Some things are not followed because Davis Stirling overrides governing docs in places, but there were also simple things. For example, bylaws call out our annual meeting month, and boards have been having it in a different month for about 8 years, but bylaws were never updated... Other minor things like that.
What happened? Nothing, because no one REALLY cared. But, the board has now updated bylaws to align with common practice, and consulting a lawyer to get other docs updated.
In most cases, you just point it out politely and the board will comply, or update the bylaw to make sense if there is a good reason they are not complying.
What happened? Nothing, because no one REALLY cared. But, the board has now updated bylaws to align with common practice, and consulting a lawyer to get other docs updated.
In most cases, you just point it out politely and the board will comply, or update the bylaw to make sense if there is a good reason they are not complying.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Sarah brought up a very good point, HOA's may not be following Bylaws, because they are outdated and new state civil codes now take precedent. For example, no more Action Without a Meeting, as most understand it, election rules have been updated. There are a number of things a board may be doing that aren't in the Bylaws, but in Civil Code. On the other hand, there may be a number of things that maybe allowed in the Bylaws, but not longer allowed in Civil Code.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
This is interesting Sarah. In most HOAs in CA, it seems that Bylaws must be updated by the Owners. But your original Bylaws say that that the Board alone may update them?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Need to add: Boards can update bylaws when sections conflict with current statutes like the Davis-Stirling Act.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posts: 414
Posted:
Hi,
It really depends on what occurred or didn't occur. The owners have the right to vote a member off of the board, or in extreme cases, sue the board.
However, this is a time-consuming endeavour. If the behaviour is significantly impacting the community though, they first step would be to speak to the board, and then an attorney if changes are not made.
It really depends on what occurred or didn't occur. The owners have the right to vote a member off of the board, or in extreme cases, sue the board.
However, this is a time-consuming endeavour. If the behaviour is significantly impacting the community though, they first step would be to speak to the board, and then an attorney if changes are not made.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree, Marshall. Hope Richard clarifies.
SarahV4 (California)
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/09/2021 9:17 AM
This is interesting Sarah. In most HOAs in CA, it seems that Bylaws must be updated by the Owners. But your original Bylaws say that that the Board alone may update them?
This is interesting Sarah. In most HOAs in CA, it seems that Bylaws must be updated by the Owners. But your original Bylaws say that that the Board alone may update them?
They are updating them by putting needed changes out for a vote to the members. So, yes, the members are updating, but of course the board has to lead the process.
There was lack of clarity on whether the board could unilaterally update them (as the CC&Rs state), as long as they weren't reducing member rights, and still comply with the law. Moving a meeting from one month to another is not a reduction in member rights. Other updates are increasing member rights by aligning with the civil codes. Anyway, it was easiest to just put out for a vote.
SarahV4 (California)
Posts: 29
Posts: 29
Posted:
And I meant to say the bylaws, not CC&Rs, give the board the authority to update to bylaws, without a vote. We still put to a vote to avoid any appearance of legal issues.
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