PMC / Attorney assist to remove Director?

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

I’m the Treasurer on my HOA Board. Yesterday the President informed me that he would be calling a special meeting to have me removed from the Board.

He has asked our PMC and the HOA’s ($500/hr) attorney for advice on how to go about this process.

This strikes me as a bit sketchy. Or is this business as usual?

(I don’t know if it makes any difference, but I’ve recently been taking the PMC to task for various over-charges, plus I’m working on negotiating a new contract / new rates with the PMC. Also (if it makes any difference), the Prez wants me gone because he doesn’t like me; there’s no malfeasance or actual cause)

Thank you,

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Were you elected to the Board by the membership or appointed?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

All of this will depend on your bylaws and state law, but...

In general, the only people who can remove a director are the homeowners via a recall. Board members serve at the pleasure of the homeowners and may be removed *with or without cause*.

Some states and communities differentiate between directors who have been elected and those who have been appointed by the board to fill an empty position. In the latter case, it may be possible for the board to remove the director that they appointed. This is why Pat asked. (FWIW, in my state appointed directors are treated the same as ones who have been elected.)

If your state and your bylaws treat appointed directors differently, then the board probably has the authority to do this. The other directors may consult the attorney to make sure that they are doing things correctly to make it stick, but otherwise this action is no different from other things that boards do.

I'll pick a bit at one thing you said (that this isn't a case of malfeasance on your part). If you're the odd man out on your board, then you need to accept that things aren't going to go your way. It won't make a difference that you're right and they're wrong - the others will still have a majority and will call the shots, and if you're particularly disruptive they may well take steps to sideline you. This may be what's going on. In this case, if you want to fight it then you'll have to do things the hard way: get enough like-minded homeowners to elect different directors so that you have a different majority in control. It's a lot of work but it can be done.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PatJ1 on 11/03/2021 4:49 AM
Were you elected to the Board by the membership or appointed?

Thanks! I was elected to the Board by the membership.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

BillD16, I see from earlier posts that the owners elected you to the Board less than six months ago, in a landslide with unusually high turnout, with you running on your concerns about certain management company conduct. The contract with the management company is up for renewal soon. This is a sizable single family home HOA.

BillD16, has the President-director called a special meeting of the board or of the owners?

TPC Chapter 209 provides for automatic removal when a board is presented with written, documented evidence from a database or other record maintained by a governmental law enforcement authority that a board member was convicted of a felony or crime involving moral turpitude not more than 20 years before the date the board is presented with the evidence... I presume this is not applicable.

Else TPC Chapter 209 at 209.00591 is clear that you, having been elected by the owners, cannot be removed by the board. This leaves Texas's nonprofit corporation statute section as follows:

Sec. 22.211. REMOVAL OF DIRECTOR. (a) A director of a corporation may be removed from office under any procedure provided by the certificate of formation or bylaws of the corporation.

(b) In the absence of a provision for removal in the certificate of formation or bylaws, a director may be removed from office, with or without cause, by the persons entitled to elect, designate, or appoint the director. If the director was elected to office, removal requires an affirmative vote equal to the vote necessary to elect the director.

I say: Legally the President has as much right to call a Special Meeting of the Owners as any other owner. The President must comply with the law and covenants for doing so.

I certainly think little of a President who uses HOA (the owners') funds to pay the HOA attorney for information on how to do this. However, if a majority of the Board voted to do so, then you are stuck. I can imagine the grounds being exaggerated to something like: "BillD16 is harassing the management company and defaming them. The MC could file its own lawsuit. Therefore, BillD16 is a liability. He needs to go."

I think you are stuck appearing at this special meeting (presumably of the owners) and asking to make a statement. You have a right to do so, since it is a meeting of the owners and all owners should be allowed the chance for input. You should be emotionless. You should address any claims that you did anything that holds the HOA out to liability.

I think you are in a difficult position. If say you were to resign, you have let down those owners who voted for you. On the other hand, if you continue, the management company can make life miserable for you. I expect you will be removed as treasurer (an officer position, which the board is allowed to change at will). I am not sure why the president has not got a board majority to do this already.

I hope you understand: If you are removed as treasurer, you are still a director, and only a vote of the owners can remove you as a director.

I think it's likely the owners would not remove you as a director. If you have the fortitude to put up with seven months of nastiness from the board and manager, then continue as a director and try to get new directors, who feel as you do, elected.

I would also not blame you if you resigned as director, for the reasons CathyA3 describes.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 11/03/2021 4:46 AM
I’m the Treasurer on my HOA Board. Yesterday the President informed me that he would be calling a special meeting to have me removed from the Board.

He has asked our PMC and the HOA’s ($500/hr) attorney for advice on how to go about this process.

This strikes me as a bit sketchy. Or is this business as usual?

(I don’t know if it makes any difference, but I’ve recently been taking the PMC to task for various over-charges, plus I’m working on negotiating a new contract / new rates with the PMC. Also (if it makes any difference), the Prez wants me gone because he doesn’t like me; there’s no malfeasance or actual cause)

Thank you,

Bill

Bill,

A special meeting is a great opportunity for you to offer the facts behind your allegation that the property management company is acting either improperly or illegally. You have enough time to prepare your case. Conspiracy ends once you joined the board and engaged on HOA business.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

My Standard Disclaimer: I hope my HTML isn’t all screwed up.

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/03/2021 6:27 AM
BillD16, I see from earlier posts that the owners elected you to the Board less than six months ago, in a landslide with unusually high turnout, with you running on your concerns about certain management company conduct. The contract with the management company is up for renewal soon. This is a sizable single family home HOA.

First off: thank you, AugustinD, for taking the time to look into the background. It was very thoughtful of you. I really was primarily interested in the (to me) odd conflict-of-interest-y aspects of a Director asking the PMC “how do I get rid of this guy?” But - I’ll happily listen to all advice.

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/03/2021 6:27 AM
BillD16, has the President-director called a special meeting of the board or of the owners?

He is apparently working on it. There has not yet been a vote on the matter - at least, not one I’m aware of.

Our Board is in poor shape: it’s supposed to be 5 people, but it’s down to President, VP, and Treasurer (me).

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/03/2021 6:27 AM
TPC Chapter 209 provides for automatic removal when a board is presented with written, documented evidence from a database or other record maintained by a governmental law enforcement authority that a board member was convicted of a felony or crime involving moral turpitude not more than 20 years before the date the board is presented with the evidence... I presume this is not applicable.

Yeah, I’ve been pretty clean since the mid 1980s or so

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/03/2021 6:27 AM
Else TPC Chapter 209 at 209.00591 is clear that you, having been elected by the owners, cannot be removed by the board. This leaves Texas's nonprofit corporation statute section as follows:

Sec. 22.211. REMOVAL OF DIRECTOR. (a) A director of a corporation may be removed from office under any procedure provided by the certificate of formation or bylaws of the corporation.

(b) In the absence of a provision for removal in the certificate of formation or bylaws, a director may be removed from office, with or without cause, by the persons entitled to elect, designate, or appoint the director. If the director was elected to office, removal requires an affirmative vote equal to the vote necessary to elect the director.

I say: Legally the President has as much right to call a Special Meeting of the Owners as any other owner. The President must comply with the law and covenants for doing so.

Fair ‘nuff. I think our Bylaws call for a simple majority of Owners to remove.

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/03/2021 6:27 AM
I certainly think little of a President who uses HOA (the owners') funds to pay the HOA attorney for information on how to do this. However, if a majority of the Board voted to do so, then you are stuck.

Yeah, it bugs me. If he’s got a problem with me, he should spend his *own* damn money on lawyer questions. MHO, of course.

To the best of my knowledge, there’s been no vote on this, either. It depresses me and makes me tired when I think of this degenerating into “they did this!” and “they did that!” - y’all have seen that here before, so I won’t get into the whys and wherefores except to say my questioning the Board’s casual attitude on voting is likely a big reason why they want me gone.

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/03/2021 6:27 AM
I can imagine the grounds being exaggerated to something like: "BillD16 is harassing the management company and defaming them. The MC could file its own lawsuit. Therefore, BillD16 is a liability. He needs to go."

Probably 10 or 15 things like that. I’ll definitely want a recording. I’ll file it next to the video of my prostate surgery.

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/03/2021 6:27 AM
I think you are stuck appearing at this special meeting (presumably of the owners) and asking to make a statement. You have a right to do so, since it is a meeting of the owners and all owners should be allowed the chance for input. You should be emotionless. You should address any claims that you did anything that holds the HOA out to liability.

I think you are in a difficult position. If say you were to resign, you have let down those owners who voted for you. On the other hand, if you continue, the management company can make life miserable for you. I expect you will be removed as treasurer (an officer position, which the board is allowed to change at will). I am not sure why the president has not got a board majority to do this already.

I hope you understand: If you are removed as treasurer, you are still a director, and only a vote of the owners can remove you as a director.

I think it's likely the owners would not remove you as a director. If you have the fortitude to put up with seven months of nastiness from the board and manager, then continue as a director and try to get new directors, who feel as you do, elected.

I would also not blame you if you resigned as director, for the reasons CathyA3 describes.

The one thing about defending myself / making a statement is that this will almost certainly be done via video, and (I’m guessing) will involve lots of proxies gathered by the President and his friends. Reciting “Jabberwocky” will probably be as effective as anything else I could say.

My issue with resigning is twofold: 1. it’s not just that I’d be letting down the people who voted for me; it’s also the notion that I’d be giving free rein to the current Board. And 2. I’d really like to finish up the work re the PMC, it would save the neighborhood a LOT of money.

I think I should probably start making up lists of people that I can hit up for proxies.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 11/03/2021 8:00 AM
Yeah, it bugs me. If he’s got a problem with me, he should spend his *own* damn money on lawyer questions. MHO, of course.

To the best of my knowledge, there’s been no vote on this, either. It depresses me and makes me tired when I think of this degenerating into “they did this!” and “they did that!” - y’all have seen that here before, so I won’t get into the whys and wherefores except to say my questioning the Board’s casual attitude on voting is likely a big reason why they want me gone.

To any short statement you make at any Special Meeting that occurs, I would add a comment like the following:

...

Finally, I want to say that the President here used owners' money to consult the HOA attorney about removing me as a director. The President obtained no vote of the board to do so. I object to this.

I intend to continue serving the best interests of the corporation. I am happy to respond to questions here at this meeting. You are allowed to ask questions. Thank you for hearing my side.

Quote:

I think I should probably start making up lists of people that I can hit up for proxies.

Attaway.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Bill, you situation is not uncommon in this industry. There are steps that can help correct this, but it will never happen. Trying to instill corporate values into the HOA mentality is a lost cause.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Unfortunately, change is never easy and some people really get nervous when someone comes along with radical ideas like - reviewing contracts and possibly renegotiating them so the Association will get the highest value possible, whether it's for a property manager or lawn care service.

Now to be fair, I read your conversation on what you think are overcharges by the property manager (I believe you said the issue concerns violation letters being sent via certified mail and asked if you should have used stronger language in demanding a refund). To recap my response: you may be right, but I didn't see where you went to the board FIRST about your concerns, and (2) you didn't go to the property manager and his/her supervisor and ask (calmly) for him/her to explain the charges.

As you know, property managers work at the board's direction - if you'd gone to the board first, you may have received your answers at that time (you ARE new to the treasurer's position and didn't say how familiar you were with the association's finances before joining the board). You and the president only have one vote each - even if he disagreed with you, your questions may have prompted the others to support your reviewing the charges with the property manager and get the problem resolved that way.

Apparently, that didn't work, and now the property manager is hopping mad at his/her competency questioned (and possibly his/her honesty and a little more). There could be a number of reasons why the president is coming for you - he may be influenced by the property manager or is concerned about the prospect (and work) required to search for a new property manager or renegotiating the current contract. or HIS competency is being questioned because it would appear he hasn't really looked at the figures either and now there's a chance he's been bamboozled for years. If he couldn't catch this, what else has he missed?

None of this is to say you're wrong in your suspicions and the president's real motives may come out in this saga. Wouldn't it be fun if there's a meeting, this backfires in a big way - and then the PRESIDENT would be the one facing a recall? Until then, review your documents to see if it addresses special meetings and/or board member recalls, and demand the protocol be followed. Don't be afraid of addressing your neighbors - the president may want you gone, but that doesn't mean enough people will show up at the meeting or vote you off. In fact, if you were elected by a landslide, the numbers are on your side.

While you're waiting for that shoe to drop (if it ever does), continue to speak your truth, but be professional about it. Don't jump to conclusions until you ask relevant questions - and be open-minded about the answers. Just because it may not match your narrative doesn't mean you can or should ignore the truth.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Bill

I am entirely sympathetic to your concerns and issues, you seem to have mashed on someone's tender toes.

I am concerned you may have exceeded the (admittedly sometimes ill defined) bounds of your authority. Asking the MC to explain and justify various charges is well within the scope of your responsibilities.

Taking them 'to task' should be the responsibility of the President or the Board a whole following a presentation of the facts and issues to the members of the Board for review and concurrence. If I were the President and learned another board member was having discussions with a contractor regarding performance issues, I would counsel with that person he or she should present their findings/issues to the Board so a Board approved course of action could be agreed to.

Similarly, did the Board empower you to enter into negotiations regarding the contract with the MC? Again, if I were the President, or even another board member, and learned a board member was having discussions with a contractor regarding a new contract, I would suggest the terms and conditions of the provisions of a new contract should be discussed and agreed to by the Board before negotiations began.

The President is handling this poorly based on the information presented. He should be talking with you about what is taking place before seeking to oust you. I suspect someone at the MC has had discussions with the President and possibly other members of the Board.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Well, Sheila, it appears we have expressed the same concerns to BillD16.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillH10 on 11/03/2021 9:56 AM
Well, Sheila, it appears we have expressed the same concerns to BillD16.

Thanks SheliaH and BillH10. I don’t know how to direct link, but yes, I did all that stuff.

https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/314501/view/topic/Default.aspx
10/31/2021 11:16A
I responded to ND:
“For what it’s worth, this is pretty much the path I’ve been following. The HOA Board has been involved in this ever since I came on-board earlier this year. It’s been busy, and I’ve only recently managed to pull everything together into a succinct but clear document that describes the issues (and has been reviewed by other Board members, too).”

The contract negations haven’t started, although I’ve done all of the groundwork: reading the old and new contracts, researching language, preparing a nifty comparison document, writing up a summary of the most notable cost artifacts in the contracts and their implications for our future financial health, along with recommendations, and provided it all to the Board in the past couple of weeks. And so far heard only crickets in response.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 11/03/2021 4:46 AM
I’m the Treasurer on my HOA Board. Yesterday the President informed me that he would be calling a special meeting to have me removed from the Board.

He has asked our PMC and the HOA’s ($500/hr) attorney for advice on how to go about this process.

This strikes me as a bit sketchy. Or is this business as usual?

(I don’t know if it makes any difference, but I’ve recently been taking the PMC to task for various over-charges, plus I’m working on negotiating a new contract / new rates with the PMC. Also (if it makes any difference), the Prez wants me gone because he doesn’t like me; there’s no malfeasance or actual cause)

Thank you,

Bill

What do you mean by advice? If he's asking what's the process/what does the property code say or other procedural type questions that's business as usual. (And is probably in your best interests as they will - hopefully anyway - ensure that the correct process is followed and you aren't removed improperly.)

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

BillD16, glad to hear it, sorry you are having to deal with such matters as they only detract from the main business/responsibility of a Board.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bill

Not sure about TX but a person elected by a membership vote can only be removed by a membership vote. In SC it would have to be 51% of all owners voting yes to remove someone on the BOD.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraT1 on 11/03/2021 11:09 AM

What do you mean by advice? If he's asking what's the process/what does the property code say or other procedural type questions that's business as usual. (And is probably in your best interests as they will - hopefully anyway - ensure that the correct process is followed and you aren't removed improperly.)

I’m not completely sure, but I’d assume it’s about something like procedure. And I take your point that it’s in my best interest that he doesn’t just go off and make something up. I really was asking (initially, at least) if this was standard practice; if it was me, I wouldn’t touch money from the HOA for this sort of thing unless I was dealing with a rock-solid, actionable case of fraud. (I’ll beg you to believe me that that’s not the case here

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 11/03/2021 10:52 AM

Posted By BillH10 on 11/03/2021 9:56 AM
Well, Sheila, it appears we have expressed the same concerns to BillD16.

Thanks SheliaH and BillH10. I don’t know how to direct link, but yes, I did all that stuff.

https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/314501/view/topic/Default.aspx
10/31/2021 11:16A
I responded to ND:
“For what it’s worth, this is pretty much the path I’ve been following. The HOA Board has been involved in this ever since I came on-board earlier this year. It’s been busy, and I’ve only recently managed to pull everything together into a succinct but clear document that describes the issues (and has been reviewed by other Board members, too).”

The contract negations haven’t started, although I’ve done all of the groundwork: reading the old and new contracts, researching language, preparing a nifty comparison document, writing up a summary of the most notable cost artifacts in the contracts and their implications for our future financial health, along with recommendations, and provided it all to the Board in the past couple of weeks. And so far heard only crickets in response.

Bill

Well, you'd done your homework, which is a great thing for a board treasurer. So far, you know what the president thinks - have ANY of the other board members said anything yet? If not, perhaps it's because they're still digesting the information (you really don't want them to buzz through it all, do you?) I would hope the others will see you take your job seriously and it may be NO ONE's ever put in the work like you did - how would they look if they went along with the president and tried to give you the heave-ho? Which they really can't do - only homeowners can do that.

Better yet, you'll now be able to make copies of what you presented to the board and show it to anyone else who'd rather have a look? Imagine passing this out at this special meeting the president wants to call - Wonder how the president will respond to that? Maybe he can't and that's why he went to the HOA attorney. And now you have another weapon - you could say what the documents say regarding special meetings and board member removal, and then ask why he didn't read it instead of going to the attorney - and by the way, since the guy or lady charges $500 a pop, did he get board authorization? No? In that case, I think the president should be responsible for that.

Then again....our association attorney gives us a certain number of hours that cover questions that may not be answered in the documents or someplace else, and we can contact him via email or phone. The board authorizes the contact so we don't run out of hours and have to pay for a question that could have been answered by sitting down and reading. Instead of thinking the president is taking advantage, maybe YOU should check if there's a letter of engagement from the attorney that addresses things like research and what it'll cost. Now, do you understand what I mean by slowing your roll and asking a few questions BEFORE going off half-cocked and accusing people of stuff?

It's one thing to be removed as the treasurer - the board might do that if they elect officers from among themselves, but in this situation, they may look really stupid. It's another for homeowners to toss you from the board - if you really want to stay, you have to calm down a bit and start thinking strategically. Good luck - if what you say is correct, I don't think you'll have much, if anything to work about.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

If the whole case against you is that the president doesn't like you, then you have nothing to worry about. I suspect there is more to the story than that. I don't know enough to make any judgements but the statement, "I'm working on negotiating a new contract..." does raise red flags. Did the board authorize you to negotiate for them.

Even if the board is doing everything wrong, the fix is not for the secretary or one board member to act unilaterally.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BenA2 on 11/03/2021 2:10 PM
If the whole case against you is that the president doesn't like you, then you have nothing to worry about. I suspect there is more to the story than that. I don't know enough to make any judgements but the statement, "I'm working on negotiating a new contract..." does raise red flags. Did the board authorize you to negotiate for them.

Even if the board is doing everything wrong, the fix is not for the secretary or one board member to act unilaterally.

I agree about acting unilaterally but I understand the OP is Treasurer so investigating expenditures, expenses, budgets, etc. is well within his jurisdiction. If he encounters an expense (paying the MC for violation letters) I say he is withing his rights to ask to see the contract that allows this.

Bill

Have at it boyo.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BenA2 on 11/03/2021 2:10 PM
If the whole case against you is that the president doesn't like you, then you have nothing to worry about. I suspect there is more to the story than that. I don't know enough to make any judgements but the statement, "I'm working on negotiating a new contract..." does raise red flags. Did the board authorize you to negotiate for them.

Even if the board is doing everything wrong, the fix is not for the secretary or one board member to act unilaterally.

Oh, I'm certain the President would have their own, different take on things. But I really do try to be as accurate as possible when I ask questions here; there's not a lot of point to lying to y'all and getting a pleasant (but incorrect) answer.

To clarify what I meant by "I'm working...", here's what I wrote above:

"The contract negations haven’t started, although I’ve done all of the groundwork: reading the old and new contracts, researching language, preparing a nifty comparison document, writing up a summary of the most notable cost artifacts in the contracts and their implications for our future financial health, along with recommendations, and provided it all to the Board in the past couple of weeks. And so far heard only crickets in response."

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 11/03/2021 3:24 PM

Posted By BenA2 on 11/03/2021 2:10 PM
If the whole case against you is that the president doesn't like you, then you have nothing to worry about. I suspect there is more to the story than that. I don't know enough to make any judgements but the statement, "I'm working on negotiating a new contract..." does raise red flags. Did the board authorize you to negotiate for them.

Even if the board is doing everything wrong, the fix is not for the secretary or one board member to act unilaterally.

I agree about acting unilaterally but I understand the OP is Treasurer so investigating expenditures, expenses, budgets, etc. is well within his jurisdiction. If he encounters an expense (paying the MC for violation letters) I say he is withing his rights to ask to see the contract that allows this.

Bill

Have at it boyo.

Thanks, man!

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 11/03/2021 1:49 PM

Then again....our association attorney gives us a certain number of hours that cover questions that may not be answered in the documents or someplace else, and we can contact him via email or phone. The board authorizes the contact so we don't run out of hours and have to pay for a question that could have been answered by sitting down and reading. Instead of thinking the president is taking advantage, maybe YOU should check if there's a letter of engagement from the attorney that addresses things like research and what it'll cost. Now, do you understand what I mean by slowing your roll and asking a few questions BEFORE going off half-cocked and accusing people of stuff?

I did check that before posting - no, we don't have Bonus Question Hours (or informal classes on HOA law, etc). I kinda kick myself now that we didn't look for that.

(I've noticed that several times in this thread I've come back with "yes, I did that". I'm not trying to be cute - I truly appreciate everyone who takes the time to respond, and I've learned a lot).

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 11/03/2021 3:52 PM

Posted By BenA2 on 11/03/2021 2:10 PM
If the whole case against you is that the president doesn't like you, then you have nothing to worry about. I suspect there is more to the story than that. I don't know enough to make any judgements but the statement, "I'm working on negotiating a new contract..." does raise red flags. Did the board authorize you to negotiate for them.

Even if the board is doing everything wrong, the fix is not for the secretary or one board member to act unilaterally.

Oh, I'm certain the President would have their own, different take on things. But I really do try to be as accurate as possible when I ask questions here; there's not a lot of point to lying to y'all and getting a pleasant (but incorrect) answer.

To clarify what I meant by "I'm working...", here's what I wrote above:

"The contract negations haven’t started, although I’ve done all of the groundwork: reading the old and new contracts, researching language, preparing a nifty comparison document, writing up a summary of the most notable cost artifacts in the contracts and their implications for our future financial health, along with recommendations, and provided it all to the Board in the past couple of weeks. And so far heard only crickets in response."

Bill

I was not implying that you were being untruthful in any way, only that there are different perceptions. I still get the impression that the decision to renegotiate the contract was not made by the board. Is that the case? With something as important as a contract with a management company, the board should be involved in every step. I think it is presumptuous for any board member to draft a new contract without board approval, even though it may not violate any rules.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BenA2 on 11/03/2021 7:32 PM

Posted By BillD16 on 11/03/2021 3:52 PM

Posted By BenA2 on 11/03/2021 2:10 PM
If the whole case against you is that the president doesn't like you, then you have nothing to worry about. I suspect there is more to the story than that. I don't know enough to make any judgements but the statement, "I'm working on negotiating a new contract..." does raise red flags. Did the board authorize you to negotiate for them.

Even if the board is doing everything wrong, the fix is not for the secretary or one board member to act unilaterally.

Oh, I'm certain the President would have their own, different take on things. But I really do try to be as accurate as possible when I ask questions here; there's not a lot of point to lying to y'all and getting a pleasant (but incorrect) answer.

To clarify what I meant by "I'm working...", here's what I wrote above:

"The contract negations haven’t started, although I’ve done all of the groundwork: reading the old and new contracts, researching language, preparing a nifty comparison document, writing up a summary of the most notable cost artifacts in the contracts and their implications for our future financial health, along with recommendations, and provided it all to the Board in the past couple of weeks. And so far heard only crickets in response."

Bill

I was not implying that you were being untruthful in any way, only that there are different perceptions. I still get the impression that the decision to renegotiate the contract was not made by the board. Is that the case? With something as important as a contract with a management company, the board should be involved in every step. I think it is presumptuous for any board member to draft a new contract without board approval, even though it may not violate any rules.

Oh! I didn’t draft a new contract; the PMC handed us a new contract that they want us to sign. As Treasurer, I did some legwork as I mentioned above - which I reported to the Board. I guess that technically the decision to renegotiate wasn’t made by the Board, but by the PMC? In the report I made to the Board, I recommended that we not accept the new contract as-is, because it will cost us considerably more money. I know, clear as mud, huh?

The Board has yet to weigh in on any of this. I haven’t been trying to work any back-room deals or exert authority that I don’t have. I agree that the Board should be involved - I really wish they would *get* involved.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”