💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
So curious about this throughout the nation. What HOA laws does your state have that are really great? I may be in a position soon to connect and talk with an influential lawmaker and provide details to draft a fresh HOA bill and would love to bring some great ideas.

I'm thinking things like:
- solar panel rights
- open meetings requirements
- member access to documents/records/etc
- daily/excessive fines
- outline penalty procedure (30 days notice, hearing, etc)
- rental rights
- jurisdiction under SoS to enforce HOA not following state laws....something different than just contract dispute lawsuit.

what else is great in your state?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Mandatory payment of directors of $8000 per year adjusted for location and inflation annually while retaining "volunteer" status under federal law.

Why? Because I am studying non-HOA neighborhoods that are beautifully maintained in one county but just across the county line, in another state, the houses are wrecks, due to lack of regulation. I think it's all about code enforcement by professionals.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
I don't pretend to know how to do this but I would like to see legislation that deals with HOA's not adequately funding Reserves. Too many boards exist that will not keep up with Reserves because they don't want to raise dues.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
This might be a good resource for you

https://communityassociations.net/oregon-resources/
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/01/2021 10:28 AM
Mandatory payment of directors of $8000 per year adjusted for location and inflation annually while retaining "volunteer" status under federal law.

Why? Because I am studying non-HOA neighborhoods that are beautifully maintained in one county but just across the county line, in another state, the houses are wrecks, due to lack of regulation. I think it's all about code enforcement by professionals.

I am not sure what one has to do with the other.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/01/2021 10:29 AM
I don't pretend to know how to do this but I would like to see legislation that deals with HOA's not adequately funding Reserves. Too many boards exist that will not keep up with Reserves because they don't want to raise dues.

Too many Boards don't fund Reserve Accounts because they don't understand them!

In addition, Board's who do not raise dues by the CCR allowed %'s because they want to be able to tell everyone, "Hey. We're not raising the dues". Should be the other way around. Raise the dues as allowed. Refund any dues, "cough, cough" over collected when there is a valid surplus.

Send HOA's into receivership when there isn't a Board quorum within a determined amount of time. Operating without a quorum is about the same as operating with no Board at all. Ours operated for over 10 years without a Board quorum. Too little got done and now we're paying the price.

Require that Board terms be 2 years and staggered. A Board with all one year terms can never get anything done.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I second the comments about reserve requirements. Funding reserves should not be optional.

However, this leads into something that I've complained about in the past. The reserve business is part of the bigger issue of association budgets being inadequate in general. This can result from a variety of reasons:

* Board members don't understand how to budget properly.

* Board members keep budgets artificially low because they don't want to deal with blow back from the community.

* Some states allow homeowners to vote against assessments or annual budgets, putting the decision making authority in the hands of those who don't have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of the association. Homeowners have an incentive to stick future members with the problems.

* Deferred maintenance is just another form of living beyond one's means, and it can be largely invisible until things go badly wrong.

* Lawmakers may lack the incentive to fix these problems since they also won't want to listen to homeowners' howls when the owners can no longer behave irresponsibly.

* Current laws allow owners to purchase homes that they can't afford when the true costs are taken into account. Many groups have an incentive to maintain this status quo, including developers/builders, realtors, local governing bodies, and (unfortunately) those who are concerned about the increasing unaffordability of housing in many areas.

I'm not optimistic about this ever being fixed until the whole HOA/COA system goes off the rails enough that it can no longer be ignored.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
North Carolina tried to require new Board members to attend an educational 4 hours course to be on the Board a few years back. It was voted down.

Overall, I think it's a great idea for those that are committed. Downside it that the few that actually volunteer may not if the requirement were there.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
What good is creating laws, when you have no enforcement mechanism in place. Then, when you do have laws, the art of trying to interpret them becomes a challenge. Sometimes you have to go directly to the lawmaker who authored the law to get the real story. When have Open Meeting laws and three different attorneys can give you three difference interpretations, but after you spoke directly to the lawmaker, only one was right.

California probably has the most extensive set of rules for HOA's in the country, but it does no good if there is no legitimate enforcement. During the month of November, I send out all the Annual Disclosures and Budget to all associations. Two of the documents required is a summary of the reserves and the other is a reserve funding plan. There is nothing in place to make sure that these Annual Disclosures and Budgets are actually sent out. When file taxes every year for HOA's and their tax liability is zero. Maybe as part of the files sent to our Franchise Tax Board is a Summary of the Reserves.

I sat on a Legislative Committee for two CAI chapters for five years. They were head scratching, to say the least. There were two things I felt needed to be done, one, make it mandatory that every HOA in California have a website, and two, eliminate the requirement of quorum for the election of directors. That would be start in breaking up some boards that stand on because they can't be voted out. Will it fix everything, nope, but it is a step in the right direction.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
"Best" is subjective. You may think one way, your neighbors may think another, the developer thinks yet another way. So do the legislators (many of who will go along with whoever donated the most money to his/her campaign).

Instead, I'd like to see more transparency and training for homeowners who grow up to become HOA board members. I MIGHT go along with paying directors, although $8K is too much - you want that kind of money, we need performance standards that are fairly objective. Keeping assessments “low” isn’t one of them – just look at Surfside to see how well that worked out. I’ll have to think about the type of standards – maybe we can start with showing up to the damned meeting every month on time.

Mandatory and continuing education of board members is necessary (webinar or in-person is fine.) The developers must provide initial training to the first board – and attending training sessions must be mandatory. How subsequent boards keep their skills up is up to them.

Addressing underfunded reserves is long overdue – let’s start with requiring developers to obtain a reserve study for the initial board to use, along with mandatory training on what it is and how it’s used. Initial funding for, say, the first 10 years after the HOA changes hands would also be nice.

Pat’s suggestion about HOAs being put into receivership when there hasn’t been a board quorum is interesting. In case people are concerned about the courts being swamped with supervising receivers, maybe something within another agency could be set up (state or local, such as housing).

Requiring the CCRs, Bylaws, the last years’ worth (maybe two) of board meeting minutes, the most recent reserve study and an income/expense statement for the last two or three years – with a one or two week period to review everything and ask questions BEFORE the closing would be good. At closing, the buyer must sign a statement indicating he/she received this stuff. It doesn’t matter if the buyer is an individual homeowner or an investor.

Do we need states to standardize rules regarding fines? Perhaps – let’s start with mandating appeal rights, annual disclosure of a fine schedule and prohibiting daily fines.

In my city, landlords are supposed to register with the city, partly to identify who to go after when a house or building goes to shit. I don’t know how effective it is, but if you’re going to own a home (or several) in a HOA, there needs to be a way of tracking these people. There may need to be some special things done regarding out of state owners.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I've mentioned before something I call Receivership Lite. I see it as a way to bring professional decision making into the areas normally handled by volunteer/amateur boards and to save associations from themselves. It could also help those associations that always have trouble filling all of their board positions.

There are issues to be resolved with this, such as who overrides whom when the pros disagree with the amateurs. And I'm sure it wouldn't be perfect. But right now we have non-profit corporations being run by folks who don't have to demonstrate any competence at all and who have some incentive to do things wrong - it can't get a whole lot worse than what we've already got.
BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/01/2021 1:35 PM
What good is creating laws, when you have no enforcement mechanism in place. Then, when you do have laws, the art of trying to interpret them becomes a challenge. Sometimes you have to go directly to the lawmaker who authored the law to get the real story. When have Open Meeting laws and three different attorneys can give you three difference interpretations, but after you spoke directly to the lawmaker, only one was right.

California probably has the most extensive set of rules for HOA's in the country, but it does no good if there is no legitimate enforcement. During the month of November, I send out all the Annual Disclosures and Budget to all associations. Two of the documents required is a summary of the reserves and the other is a reserve funding plan. There is nothing in place to make sure that these Annual Disclosures and Budgets are actually sent out. When file taxes every year for HOA's and their tax liability is zero. Maybe as part of the files sent to our Franchise Tax Board is a Summary of the Reserves.

I sat on a Legislative Committee for two CAI chapters for five years. They were head scratching, to say the least. There were two things I felt needed to be done, one, make it mandatory that every HOA in California have a website, and two, eliminate the requirement of quorum for the election of directors. That would be start in breaking up some boards that stand on because they can't be voted out. Will it fix everything, nope, but it is a step in the right direction.

I think this exactly. I've called the Secretary of State office and Consumer Protection Office regarding HOA violating the already existing State Laws (think annual meetings, records requests, annual budgets & financials, etc) and was told that its a contract dispute between the Homeowner and the HOA. This is what's shocking to me. I think some states like AZ will enforce violations, but most states don't. What's the point of having laws for Non-Profit Entities if the gov't can't or won't enforce violations?

BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
wanted to share my thoughts on some of the other ideas listed already:

I'm not in favor of a state law that dives into the specifics of how an HOA should be run. Most states have laws requiring how Non-Profits must run if they're bylaws/CCR's don't specify. This stuff is a skeleton framework like: annual meetings, minimum # of board, board terms, officers, publishing financials, etc. I don't think I agree that it should get down to specifics of alternating term cycles, reserve funding, or training.

I think in general, what I was looking for was ideas that improve things like open meetings, access to records, homeowners rights, etc as well as ideas on how to bring HOA's under the jurisdiction of a gov't authority when it violates the state laws.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS38 on 11/01/2021 3:18 PM
I think this exactly. I've called the Secretary of State office and Consumer Protection Office regarding HOA violating the already existing State Laws (think annual meetings, records requests, annual budgets & financials, etc) and was told that its a contract dispute between the Homeowner and the HOA. This is what's shocking to me. I think some states like AZ will enforce violations, but most states don't. What's the point of having laws for Non-Profit Entities if the gov't can't or won't enforce violations?
First, the government, via the courts, will enforce statutes and remedy violations of the same. Arguably doing so is a lot easier than only enforcing a covenant.

Second, I think what you want to say to whomever it is you say has clout is to re-write the law so that it is easier to enforce in the courts or by demand letter. For example, at least two states have HOA/COA statutes that charge fines for every day a record request is denied.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posted:
Our state, county or city does not have an agency that regulates HOA's or condominiums We have some pretty good laws but there is no process to ensure that Boards are following them.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Those are some great laws. One of the worst ones recently passed in Nevada prohibits the towing of cars with expired registrations. Now one of our renting problem children has three junk cars parked in the
street we can't touch.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS38 on 11/01/2021 3:25 PM
wanted to share my thoughts on some of the other ideas listed already:

I'm not in favor of a state law that dives into the specifics of how an HOA should be run. Most states have laws requiring how Non-Profits must run if they're bylaws/CCR's don't specify. This stuff is a skeleton framework like: annual meetings, minimum # of board, board terms, officers, publishing financials, etc. I don't think I agree that it should get down to specifics of alternating term cycles, reserve funding, or training.

I think in general, what I was looking for was ideas that improve things like open meetings, access to records, homeowners rights, etc as well as ideas on how to bring HOA's under the jurisdiction of a gov't authority when it violates the state laws.

I proposed a plan a few years ago to actually fund such a government agency that would oversee enforcement of HOA's and also help out with loans to small HOA's that need funding for certain reserve items but are too small to qualify for bank or SBA lending.

The problem at times with HOA's is that you may have Condo, or PUD, or HOA laws within the state, as well as Corporate law. IMO, the parts that would govern a HOA need to separated and put into one uniform documents. Why are multiple documents governing condo and puds and HOA's?

In 1970, there were 10,000 HOA's, with 700,000 homes and 2.1 million people. As of 2019, there were 351,000 HOA's with 27.2M homes and 73.9M residents. How many out people here knew there were state laws when they moved into their first HOA or sat on their first board. How many California boards out there with documents dating back prior to 2000 know rules have changed and are not reflected in their docs.

The other thing to consider, and I do see it here, is how different state house operate, politically speaking. The GOP is not big fans of regulations, and it does show in looking at their state specific laws.

Anyways, if you're going to create laws, you should have some form of enforcement mechanism.
BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/01/2021 4:05 PM
Posted By BobS38 on 11/01/2021 3:18 PM
I think this exactly. I've called the Secretary of State office and Consumer Protection Office regarding HOA violating the already existing State Laws (think annual meetings, records requests, annual budgets & financials, etc) and was told that its a contract dispute between the Homeowner and the HOA. This is what's shocking to me. I think some states like AZ will enforce violations, but most states don't. What's the point of having laws for Non-Profit Entities if the gov't can't or won't enforce violations?
First, the government, via the courts, will enforce statutes and remedy violations of the same. Arguably doing so is a lot easier than only enforcing a covenant.

Second, I think what you want to say to whomever it is you say has clout is to re-write the law so that it is easier to enforce in the courts or by demand letter. For example, at least two states have HOA/COA statutes that charge fines for every day a record request is denied.


what gov't entity is going to enforce a violated statute by an HOA? How? That's the big question. As I've said, it seems that neither the Secretary of State or the Consumers Affairs depts are interested in taking an HOA to court for such violations.

What two states have the late fee for records requests? very interesting.
BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/01/2021 4:05 PM
Posted By BobS38 on 11/01/2021 3:18 PM
I think this exactly. I've called the Secretary of State office and Consumer Protection Office regarding HOA violating the already existing State Laws (think annual meetings, records requests, annual budgets & financials, etc) and was told that its a contract dispute between the Homeowner and the HOA. This is what's shocking to me. I think some states like AZ will enforce violations, but most states don't. What's the point of having laws for Non-Profit Entities if the gov't can't or won't enforce violations?
First, the government, via the courts, will enforce statutes and remedy violations of the same. Arguably doing so is a lot easier than only enforcing a covenant.

Second, I think what you want to say to whomever it is you say has clout is to re-write the law so that it is easier to enforce in the courts or by demand letter. For example, at least two states have HOA/COA statutes that charge fines for every day a record request is denied.


what gov't entity is going to enforce a violated statute by an HOA? How? That's the big question. As I've said, it seems that neither the Secretary of State or the Consumers Affairs depts are interested in taking an HOA to court for such violations.

What two states have the late fee for records requests? very interesting.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I would be curious too. I've been to court on these types of issues and can't get anything accomplished. Judges or Commissioners either don't know the law, or live in a HOA and won't rule either way. I had a case during a transition that a judge refused to act on the associations behalf to release the HOA's property.

I understand our legal system is supposed to one of the best, but it sure sucks.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS38 on 11/01/2021 7:03 PM
what gov't entity is going to enforce a violated statute by an HOA?
Asked and answered.
BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/01/2021 7:21 PM
Posted By BobS38 on 11/01/2021 7:03 PM
what gov't entity is going to enforce a violated statute by an HOA?
Asked and answered.

humor me, because I certainly didn't see anything in your replies answering...
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
The courts are a government entity. The courts are specifically set up to, among other things, enforce certain statutes. I get that you do not like this particular government entity as a mechanism for enforcement of statutes. I am not trying to be cute. This is a big deal. For example, in 1945 in the City of Saint Louis, Missouri, an African American family purchased a house in a neighborhood with covenants that said "people of the Negro or Mongolian race" were not allowed to live in the neighborhood. Ultimately, in 1948 the Supreme Court said that people could have whatever covenants they wanted. But per SCOTUS, the courts are a state agency. As a state agency (and again, per SCOTUS) the 14th amendment prohibits the courts from enforcing a covenant that violates the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. This 1948 precedent (or similar precedents) is supposedly in the arsenal of those litigants challenging Texas's law that is a de facto ban on abortions after ___.

For the interested reader: It is a big deal that statutes are set up to be enforced by the courts. It gives the party filing a claim, to remedy a records denial, a huge leg up. Furthermore, a number of states have corporate or HOA/COA statutes that say that courts must hear the claims by those denied records on an 'expedited basis.' This too is a big deal. Many statutes are enforceable by the courts. I think it's relatively rare that such statutes have clauses about "expedited basis."

Regarding daily fining, a correction: I think it might be only Florida that fines for each day a legitimate records request is denied, and there are caveats to this.

Other states offer the chance, under statute, to have one's attorney fees paid if the HOA fails to produce the records (with caveats).

Again, I get that you do not like the courts as a mechanism for enforcing statutes. So much so that it appears you blew right through my first response. I am posting for the archives.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS38 . . . I think in general, what I was looking for was ideas that improve things like open meetings, access to records, homeowners rights, etc as well as ideas on how to bring HOA's under the jurisdiction of a gov't authority when it violates the state laws.

Whether a legislated TRIBUNAL MODEL ?

Respectfully, you should be aware that several Canadian jurisdictions have grudgingly enacted specialized ADJUDICATIVE TRIBUNALS that have diverted all but the most serious ( condo / cross-covenanted ) disputes away from the massively overloaded civil justice systems.

I myself was sceptical. But by now they seem to be delivering on quicker cheaper solutions partially funded by disputant governancers & owners.

The legislated platforms bar appeals except generally on questions of law or competing jurisdictions between tribunals. A defied tribunal Order becomes enforceable like a conventional court order by later registration in the civil justice system. They are arms-length from state government such as the controversial Florida model.

Amidst COVID 19 the Tribunal model has been more flexible / quicker ( than the conventional court hierarchies shut down ) to embrace ONDR online dispute resolution & ZOOM type interactions during the compulsory initial resolution stages. Ontario's started with records denial adjudication & has been expanded to pets/parking/nuisance disputes ( & butt-kicking ).

The downsides include that "recoverable" / "directly awardable" legal billings diminish ( because financial awards are capped ) . That's particularly of concern to a certain sub-category of junior or middle profession attorneys. Disputant parties can be represented by property managers or Directors, but financial caps restore some sorta commensuracy. Paralegals may benefit. LAWYERS will generally not dance with joy; state bars may fight this bitterly.

The jurisdictions are Ontario & British Columbia, both with massive past jurisprudence in condo legislation & prescribed regulation. ( The English & Welsh incidentally have a tribunal model that ruthlessly resolves applications to strike down obsolete cross-covenants, but the Brits are not into condo law. )

In perspective the Tribunal model CAN - CAN - divert "load" from a jurisdiction's overloaded civil justice system.

And arguably by cheaper & quicker addressing some ( but not all ) transparency issues - eg Ontario's records disgorgement Orders - it tends to address power imbalances that otherwise cripple the self-correcting tools of private organizations eg secretive Boards illegally withholding records sought by kvetchers & election challengers.

It is an incentive - howsoever imperfect - to transparency & an Open Book. And disturbers now face cheaper tools of enforcement to punish them.

It's unclear if providing quicker cheaper resolutions may increase the options previously too complex or expensive for disputants to even submit to the conventional civil justice system.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Whatever happens in Canada, stays in Canada. It does not have any effect on HOA case law.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/02/2021 7:07 AM
Whatever happens in Canada, stays in Canada. It does not have any effect on HOA case law.

Respectfully Max, the Tribunal model is a 20th century American model.

( It did not originate here in the Big Freeze, but its borrowing of U.S. solutions breaks new ground. )

Just for the record, you had disparaged the credibility of an item I posted about Judge Judy's explosive resolution of a California window replacement slam-dunking. The current count of its viewers is over 3400 ( or about 30 times the typical viewer count for most topics here ).

And by the way, for someone with your many obligations & professional activity, how do you get the time to comment so widely ? Can barely keep up myself with servicing my own John Deere.

Did you mention exactly which law school ( or university ? ) provided your training ?

Anyway thanks for the comment about this alternative provided to the OP & others if interested.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 11/02/2021 7:30 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/02/2021 7:07 AM
Whatever happens in Canada, stays in Canada. It does not have any effect on HOA case law.
And by the way, for someone with your many obligations & professional activity, how do you get the time to comment so widely ? Can barely keep up myself with servicing my own John Deere.

Being semi-retires help....also being able to multitask.
BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/02/2021 3:10 AM
The courts are a government entity. The courts are specifically set up to, among other things, enforce certain statutes. I get that you do not like this particular government entity as a mechanism for enforcement of statutes.

Again, I get that you do not like the courts as a mechanism for enforcing statutes. So much so that it appears you blew right through my first response. I am posting for the archives.

I think maybe we are talking on different wavelengths. I never said any of what you are attributing to me. In fact, I'm asking for ways and means to get gov't to bring action and take HOA's to court. Courts can't enforce statutes if there is no matter in front of them. Someone has to take the HOA to court. Most states throw their hands up in the air and say "whatever" when an HOA violates the statutes, as I've given examples previously. The SoS and Consumer Affairs, which are supposed to regulate buisness entities (which an HOA is) usually say: well, its just a contract dispute between you and your HOA.... The only way currently for most homeowners to try to force an issue is to sue their HOA, rather than the State Attorney General to file suit against an HOA that is violating State Statute.

So again I ask: what State Agency are you proposing should assume jurisdiction and enforce current State Law? That's the problem statement
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS38 on 11/02/2021 8:15 AM
I think maybe we are talking on different wavelengths.
You want a state agency other than the courts.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I would.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Florida's GenoS used to reference decisions made by an arbitrator-type person retained with Florida's state agency DBPR for condo disputes. A socialist-type system (a fee charged the Florida condos) paid for the state program. I was never impressed with this. Here are the thoughts of a (not unbiased) mediator who blasted the system in 2019: http://www.hoa-condoblog.com/EGBlog012119.html

Per statute, these arbitrators are attorneys and more.

It appears to me that FS 718 still contains the arbitration requirement.

Florida's (non-condo) HOA statute requires mediation. Which is quicker and less expensive than going to court. But still not cheap for a person of limited means.

Virginia has an ombudsman that will address violations of statutes but not the governing documents.

I do not think there are any fast and inexpensive solutions for the disputes that often arise from (1) owners ill-versed in [you name it; covenant law; infrastructure; budgeting with reserves; more]; and (2) having unskilled volunteers run corporations that have responsibility for tens of thousands and often hundreds of thousands of income each year.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/02/2021 9:50 AM
I do not think there are any fast and inexpensive solutions for the disputes that often arise from (1) owners ill-versed in [you name it; covenant law; infrastructure; budgeting with reserves; more]; and (2) having unskilled volunteers run corporations that have responsibility for tens of thousands and often hundreds of thousands of income each year.
And do we really want our tax dollars paying for a state ombudsman with legal clout who has to wade through complaints that have no basis in the law of covenants/HOAs/COAs and explain to the HOA/COA owner that the state cannot help? The HOA/COA owner is not going to understand anyway.

Isn't about half of the griping here lacking legal merit and more of the nature of "My HOA/COA Board has set up a dictatorship!" (Wrong. Read the covenants.) I think these disputes are more often than not all about a flavor of consumer illiteracy.

In other words, and from where I am sitting: It's a terrible system but I can think of worse ones.

I am pretty resolute at this point that I do not want to live in a HOA or COA. I would just be unhappy with all the fighting; the likelihood that those serving on the board hardly do so happily (which is understandable); and how around one-third of what I pay is going to be money going to administrators (managers) who do take direction from unqualified volunteers. (I have seen some good HOA/COA managers. But it's a roll of the dice.)
BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/02/2021 8:41 AM
Posted By BobS38 on 11/02/2021 8:15 AM
I think maybe we are talking on different wavelengths.
You want a state agency other than the courts.

I'm not sure you understand how the branches of gov't operate.

Courts don't bring actions; they rule on actions that are brought to them (and interpret the law). (an easy example: does the court file and bring forth criminal cases? Does the court bring forth civil suits on behalf of the state? no? who does?)

The big issue I see is not about a person/HOA squabbling over CCR's or fences or landscaping. That is contract dispute.

The issue is that states have a set of laws stating the minimum requirements for how companies shall be run and operate: Annual Meetings, board elections, transparency of financials and records, etc. The Issue is that many many stories here are about HOA's that are not following these statutes. No meetings, no member access to records, boards refusing to hold elections or open meetings, etc. Who/what/how should these violations of state law be enforced?

What is the value of a state law that the State Attorney General will not enforce?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS38 on 11/02/2021 11:06 AM
I'm not sure you understand how the branches of gov't operate.
Just imagine what I think of your understanding.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobS38 on 11/02/2021 11:06 AM
What is the value of a state law that the State Attorney General will not enforce?
Have you any idea of the number of state statutes (totally unrelated to HOAs/COAs/Nonprofits) on the books that are only enforceable in the courts?
BobS38 (Oregon)
Posts: 57
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 11/02/2021 11:12 AM
Posted By BobS38 on 11/02/2021 11:06 AM
What is the value of a state law that the State Attorney General will not enforce?
Have you any idea of the number of state statutes (totally unrelated to HOAs/COAs/Nonprofits) on the books that are only enforceable in the courts?

this is going in circles. Courts do not initiate and file criminal complaints or lawsuits. I don't know how else to rephrase this to you. If you don't understand how the branches of gov't operate, I don't know what else you and I can talk about here, if you think the courts are the ones that are filing these matters.

Sigh.

Anyway, can we please get back to the topic....
Has any state really written a good AirBnB/rental protection law?
Has any state written a good mediation/arbitration before courts law?
Has any state written a good transparency, open meetings or records law?

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
BobS38,

I never said the courts file or even initiate these matters. I have said, repeatedly, the courts enforce violations of the various HOA/COA/nonprofit corporation statutes. Just as the courts enforce violations of many civil statutes. Attorney generals for the greater part enforce the criminal code section of their state statutes.

I already agreed that civil lawsuits take a long time and cost a lot of money. They are not a great solution.

If you want input for some kind of legislator, then I believe your best bet is to look at ways to beef up the (civil) statutes, which can only be enforced via a complaint in civil court.

I get that you want a non-court state agency to specialize in resolving HOA/COA disputes. See the comments on Florida and Virginia above.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here