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HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
How should I find balance between my desire to have our HOA run well versus the other board members to contribute minimally to the association and a strong desire to not be bothered about HOA stuff between meetings?

As a single board member, I cannot work alone. Yet if I include others in the correspondence involved in executing the decisions that we make at meetings, they get annoyed. My recommendation to them is to setup a separate e-mail account and only check that when they want to, with full disclosure that if they don't check their e-mail they lose their opportunity to weigh in on how projects are being executed.

We make all decisions at meetings in front of homeowners, so I am talking about the work involved in executing the decisions that we make at meetings.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Setting up a separate email account for the board is a good idea - we have one in my community. Homeowners also use it to report problems, make suggestions, or gripe, and the board can determine if it's something that can be handled by the property manager or addressed at the next meeting. Simple questions are also answered this way. By sending emails to one address, board members don't have to wade through personal email accounts to dig for correspondence and everyone gets the same information every time, eliminating the risk of conflicting information.

You will always find board members who are more interested in the title than actually doing anything to earn it, while others want the details. You won't always know who's who - and there's nothing that says all of you have to look at things the same way. I've always said every board member should have an area to oversee - he or she can determine what's essential to getting that done. It may not be as much as you think and there may be times where a little more work is required. If everyone understands that, you'll be ok.

Since you can't control how everyone should look at things, start by focusing on yourself. Some board members do too much micromanaging - and you may be one of them. If you have a property manager, you have to get out of his/her way and let them handle the day-to-day details - that's what the association is paying them for. The key is in determining what the Board absolutely has to work on vs. things the property manager should be handling. You don't need to send daily emails with the details - why not have the property manager send a summary every two weeks or so to the board email so people can read it at their leisure? The property manager can also summarize his/her activities and include that in the management packet board members receive every month for review during the board meeting. At least that's how our board dues it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We have a Gmail address like [email protected] and when a Email is sent to that address, it is automatically sent to each BOD Member's Email so all know what is going on. But as others have said, best each BOD Member set up an HOA business Email address to track all BOD business.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
I think you're combining two related but separate issues into this one post:
A) You do all/most of the work and no other Board Member helps.
B) Other Board Members do not want to receive and/or read emails you send.

In your numerous other threads I think myself and others have tried to help you on these two issues. I'll try again here.

In regard to item A above, your options as I see them are:
1) Do less work. Have fewer projects. Lessen your standards (in some cases); not everything has to be done to 100% perfection. Prioritize and do what only needs to be done. You don't need to be involved in all aspects of every decision and every project. Sometimes "good enough" is all that's necessary to get to the finish line.
2) If you must continue doing the same quantity of work, and if your Board Members will remain the same, then you need to be ok with doing all the work. If not, return to 1).
3) Find a way to get current Board Members to help more.
4) Seek to have current Board Members replaced by new Board Members who have similar work ethics as you and who you know will help. Request current ones resign. Wait out their term expiration and actively support/advocate for new Board Members; ensure those new Board Members get voted in.
5) Hire more vendors to do work that you think must be done and that you cannot do yourself.

In regard to item B above:
1) Stop sending them emails.
2) Send emails that are more brief and to the point.
3) Agree as a Board that once a decision is made and parameters are set, then whoever is working that project (you I assume) has authority to do what's needed on their own (within those parameters). There would then be no need to email anyone with status, questions, etc. on project execution between meetings. Come to a meeting ready to provide an update or with questions/thoughts that you think you need input on. Execute project between meetings and come to the next meeting with the latest to that point.
HenryS6 (Arizona)
Posts: 111
Posted:
Quote:

1) Stop sending them emails.
2) Send emails that are more brief and to the point.
3) Agree as a Board that once a decision is made and parameters are set, then whoever is working that project (you I assume) has authority to do what's needed on their own (within those parameters). There would then be no need to email anyone with status, questions, etc. on project execution between meetings. Come to a meeting ready to provide an update or with questions/thoughts that you think you need input on. Execute project between meetings and come to the next meeting with the latest to that point.

OK, so here is an example:

As Board president, I'm alerted that a mailbox fell down in our neighborhood. Do I just take care and fix it on my own without saying anything to the other Board members? Or do I let everyone know that a mailbox fell down and give others an opportunity to step up to the plate to handle the repair?

My feeling is that, as a homeowner, I expect the board to work on projects together and not just one person make all the decisions. Thus, it seems the most appropriate to me to let the other Board members know what is going on. It turned out our property manager was able to handle fixing it, but I wouldn't be comfortable not sharing the information about the issue with the other Board members.

Your advice here would be appreciated.

Example 2:

I receive an e-mail from a homeowner (this time, a former board member who I respect) who is upset about how we are handling compliance issues. We are not meeting as a board until December. We are scheduled to send out additional compliance letters between now and then. Do I share this communication with the others? It doesn't seem right to me to withhold homeowner feedback from the board as a whole, because then I'm privy to more information than the other Board members are.

I'm fine if others ignore my e-mails. I have never complained about lack of response. Really receiving e-mail is all I ask of the other board members, and they can go as far as ignoring the e-mails until they're ready to deal with them. I think that receiving e-mails (even if a larger quantity) is a minimum expectation of being a board member.
HenryS6 (Arizona)
Posts: 111
Posted:
For what it's worth, I asked the same question posed in the original post to the legal firm that represents associations. They hold a weekly discussion on general legal questions. I asked them if a Board president can act on their own without the knowledge of the other board members since they are complaining that I e-mail too much in my efforts to keep them informed. We will see what they have to say.

The pace of work that I do in our association is based on what I believe our homeowners want to see. It's a high pace because we have a lot of work that needs to be accomplished. Maybe in 5 years we can slow down, but right now there is a lots of work to do. Our homeowners are willing to fund it through high HOA dues as long as board volunteers can execute projects and spend money wisely.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
A few statements you make are suspect:

"...I asked them if a Board president can act on their own without the knowledge of the other board members since they are complaining that I e-mail too much in my efforts to keep them informed."
>> Here you are talking about acting (making a decision) on your own. That's different than what you preciously indicated. You previously indicated that you were executing the decisions already made by the Board.

"The pace of work that I do in our association is based on what I believe our homeowners want to see."
>> Who gives a crap what other homeowners want to see if no other homeowners are willing to step up and help and no other Board Members will lift a finger. Although that said, if I recall correctly you indicated previously that homeowners wanted to volunteer to do things but you weren't comfortable with that. So I really don't have a good grasp for the reality of your situation. You seem to flip flop on the reality of things in your HOA. But if it is true that nobody else wants to be involved, then back to what I said . . . who cares what they "want to see". You're a volunteer . . . and you should be expending the amount of effort that you're willing and able to expend for the good of your HOA, and whatever gets done will have to be good enough until others are willing to help out. Either that or you will continue to drive yourself crazy and have the same recurring questions.

"It's a high pace because we have a lot of work that needs to be accomplished."
>> If I recall, you have a small HOA (<130 homes) and your only amenities are a few park areas. Speaking frankly . . . I think the bulk of your work and projects are self-generated, and most of your pain and suffering is self-inflicted. Perhaps this is why no other Board Members want to receive your emails and want to be involved in the projects . . . because much of it is unnecessary. Either that or they really are turds.

"Our homeowners are willing to fund it through high HOA dues as long as board volunteers can execute projects and spend money wisely."
>> The Board volunteers don't need to be the ones executing things. Making decisions and monitoring things, yes. But actually doing the work and being involved in the minutiae (as you seem to be), no. Hire reputable, proven contractors to do the "projects" since the money is available through high HOA dues, and watch (from the sidelines) the work get done. Claim victory afterwards.

For your two examples . . .

MAILBOX:
Repairing a mailbox is not and does not have to be a "project". Assuming you have other assorted random repairs that are needed, I'd have a pre-authorized handyman or two on stand-by that we'd ask submit a quote for a random job and would give President (or other Officer or Board Member) authority to approve expenses under a certain threshold without having to engage the entire Board for a vote.

1) Mailbox falls. 2) MC notified. 2) MC asks handyman(men) to quote job. 3) Quote(s) submitted and routed to you (President). 4) Quote approved (by you) and handyman told to execute. 5) Mailbox repaired and handyman paid; "project" complete. Maybe a day or two at most. Until then, if homeowner MUST receive mail, they will figure out a way to get their mailbox vertical so it can receive mail.

COMPLAINT EMAIL FROM HOMEOWNER:
Reply to the owner "Thanks for the email. The Board will discuss and take appropriate action." Forward email to the rest of the Board. If they read it, great. They will be informed and on the same page as you. If they don't read it, that's their choice and they will be uninformed. The email does not necessitate any action on your part as President or Board. This former Board Member had their chance to create and implement processes. If they want to be part of things, you have a bunch of other slugs on the Board that you'd be glad to see him replace. Who cares that this individual is upset presently. One person's unhappiness or dissatisfaction with things does not initiate a "project" that you then need to undertake.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Henry

On the mailbox, I assume it was a community mailbox. If an individual's mailbox, it is not a BOD issue.

We recently received a complaint from an owner concerning landscaping (which our HOA does) and in particular bush trimming. Via
our mail system all BOD Members received a copy. The BOD has delegated me (VP & Treasurer) to handle all landscaping complaints. I simply replied that our landscaper trims all bushes on an 8 week cycle which we believe to be sufficient. I did say it is possible to have two nearby homes looking quite different depending on the cycle when they will be cut. This owner has complained about other bush trimming issues but we have told him overall the BOD is happy with out landscapers performance and we will not be doing as he asked.

My point is, delegate and not take up everybody's time looking for their opinion if not necessary.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
If you are making decisions at meetings there is no reason to "weigh in" between meetings. I realize there are times when the board members have to communicate in between meetings but making any decisions outside of meetings should be avoided. I believe that in some states a quorum of members discussing HOA business by email constitutes a meeting and may be illegal so you need to know and follow the law in your state. Even if legal and proper, I agree with members who want to minimize discussing HOA business between minutes.

My suggestion is that when you decide on an action at a meeting you also decide who is to execute the action. That person gets it done and reports back at the next meeting.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
I was in a similar position. What I finally concluded is:

1.) I reached a point where I realized besides myself and one other person, I would never get the other board members to step up to the plate and provide any meaningful contribution in regards to time commitments.

2.) I was putting in too many hours per week on HOA business and after about a year and half of this I realized I was burning out and getting bitter.

3.) I reached the conclusion that the best decision I could make is to come up with a cap on the amount of hours that I was willing to volunteer each week. I did this knowing that I would not be able to accomplish everything I was hoping to achieve in the timeframe I wanted. Once I picked the number I stuck to it and cut myself off when I reached it.

For me, putting a cap on the amount of hours I worked was the best decision I could have made. The alternative was to burn out at which point I would be of no help to anyone. Eventually I just had to accept that things would move slower than I would like and that I could not control what other board members would do.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS6 on 10/27/2021 9:25 AM

OK, so here is an example:

As Board president, I'm alerted that a mailbox fell down in our neighborhood. Do I just take care and fix it on my own without saying anything to the other Board members? Or do I let everyone know that a mailbox fell down and give others an opportunity to step up to the plate to handle the repair?

Personally, I would have turned it over to the maintenance officer.

The maintenance officer would then determine what was needed and ask to spend $x on the repairs. Total number of emails to the board - 1 (1 separate email to the maintenance officer)

If you are filling in as both president and maintenance officers, I wouldn't send an email until I have already done the research and provide options and costs asking for $x to spend on the repairs. Total number of emails to the board - 1

In your example, how many emails would you have sent to the board?
HenryS6 (Arizona)
Posts: 111
Posted:
One, maybe two.

First one is to let the Board know about the damage and see if anyone else wants to be the Board contact for fixing it. (I don't necessarily need to be the one that does 90% of the work, so I think the whole board should be made aware of an issue and then someone volunteers to be the Board contact to fixing it)

Second, after having come up with the repair company and the cost, would be to solicit approvals if it were expenses. A minor repair would be done without board approval, but if it were an expensive repair, I'd get board approval on executing it.
HenryS6 (Arizona)
Posts: 111
Posted:
Resolution:

What I am going to do is create a responsibility matrix, where I put a list of different types of things that come to property manager / president / board members attention, and whether this is the type of thing that can be handled by an individual board member, the board as a whole, or the property manager. We will discuss and vote at our next meeting. If in the future something comes to my attention, I will look at the board-approved matrix and determine if it's something that I just take care of or if it is something the whole board should handle.

The only thing is that I do want the entire board to be aware of an issue before I take care of it, so at least one e-mail per issue will have to go out. Otherwise, I'll be quietly doing 90% of the work and nobody besides the PM will realize it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Henry,

I think it would be good to assign someone from the board to take the lead on these things prior to things coming up (as I posted, we had a maintenance officer).

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Yep, you ARE micromanaging things – and if you want to start feeling better about your role as board member (especially president), you need to stop right now. Then again, if you were complaining about this in March, maybe you really are a glutton for punishment – if that’s the case, why are you complaining now? Make up your mind as to what you want to do and how much, and then do it.

As Tim noted, all you really had to do was to let the property manager know the mailbox was down, and then let him/her handle it. In fact, you can probably cut down on at least half of what you’re doing now by reminding homeowners all maintenance requests are to be referred to the property manager.

If you’re concerned about cost or whether the repair really is association responsibility, propose the board come up with a policy mandating when repairs can proceed without everyone (especially you) contemplating their navels over them. To wit: the property manager should be instructed to find out what’s wrong, determine if the damage is in the common area. If so, that’s association responsibility. If the damage was due to misuse or abuse by a homeowner and/or his/her visitors, family members or whatever, they will be required to pay those expenses. Otherwise, the property manager will get a repair estimate if the property manager’s maintenance department can’t handle it. If the estimate exceeds X amount ,notify the board for approval.

Incidentally, we had a handyman on call who would come out once a week and work on a number of minor repairs at once. If he had to purchase supplies, he’d buy them, give the receipts to the property manager and if the expense was under $100, he’d be reimbursed. Maybe that’s what your community needs.

Back to the policy – if the repair costs are higher than X, but lower or equal to Y, the board could authorize the president (you) to approve it or designate that to another board officer, especially if you’re not around for whatever reason. Anything higher must be reviewed by the board. Unless it’s an emergency, wait until the next meeting.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
HenryS6 (Arizona)
Posts: 111
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 10/27/2021 1:59 PM
Yep, you ARE micromanaging things – and if you want to start feeling better about your role as board member (especially president), you need to stop right now. Then again, if you were complaining about this in March, maybe you really are a glutton for punishment – if that’s the case, why are you complaining now? Make up your mind as to what you want to do and how much, and then do it.

As Tim noted, all you really had to do was to let the property manager know the mailbox was down, and then let him/her handle it. In fact, you can probably cut down on at least half of what you’re doing now by reminding homeowners all maintenance requests are to be referred to the property manager.

If you’re concerned about cost or whether the repair really is association responsibility, propose the board come up with a policy mandating when repairs can proceed without everyone (especially you) contemplating their navels over them. To wit: the property manager should be instructed to find out what’s wrong, determine if the damage is in the common area. If so, that’s association responsibility. If the damage was due to misuse or abuse by a homeowner and/or his/her visitors, family members or whatever, they will be required to pay those expenses. Otherwise, the property manager will get a repair estimate if the property manager’s maintenance department can’t handle it. If the estimate exceeds X amount ,notify the board for approval.

Incidentally, we had a handyman on call who would come out once a week and work on a number of minor repairs at once. If he had to purchase supplies, he’d buy them, give the receipts to the property manager and if the expense was under $100, he’d be reimbursed. Maybe that’s what your community needs.

Back to the policy – if the repair costs are higher than X, but lower or equal to Y, the board could authorize the president (you) to approve it or designate that to another board officer, especially if you’re not around for whatever reason. Anything higher must be reviewed by the board. Unless it’s an emergency, wait until the next meeting.

The role you are describing is an onsite property manager and/or onsite maintenance crew. We have neither.

Our offsite property manager cannot work without board direction. So while she can get a vendor to provide a quote for us, the vendor will need pictures of the damage along with the model number of the mailbox so he knows what parts to buy. The offiste property manager cannot determine if damage was done by misuse or which home to bill for the damage. The property manager has no maintenance department and relies on outside vendors, who need an onsite contact so they can do their job efficiently.

We could really benefit from an onsite professional crew (property manager and/or maintenance technician) but our homeowners don't want to fund that.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, that's interesting - our property manager IS off-site and gets it done. I suppose that's because our management company has a maintenance department and they're out and about at least once a week doing various things. They gather together the maintenance requests that have come in, go take a look, gets it done under our policies and we get a monthly report. Usually, there's no reason for the board members to follow up - if something goes sideways with the repairs, the homeowners are pretty good at letting our manager know.

I get that your property manager wants to ensure the board is aware of what's going on, but it seems to me some creative thinking is in order. Maybe you SHOULD consider a handyman - I don't expect him or her to be able to address everything, but if you had someone to take an initial look, it might save time.

I believe I have suggested you take a look at the CAI website and look for educational materials for best practices on running a HOA - I know there's information on working with property managers and I'm sure there's something on project management and maintenance as well. And by now, you should have a general ideal as to what maintenance issues are coming through more often than others, so there should be some discussion on how to make things more efficient. If your board colleagues are getting sick of your constant emails, you might suggest if they spent a little time analyzing what's there and come up with some ideas, all of you can come up with a policy to get the work done quickly and document the same so you can spend more time on overall association management instead of getting lost in the everyday.

Or find a property manager who CAN manage things off-site

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Sorry about the March reference - I was thinking of someone else who has a conversation about being tired of HIS responsibilities as president and wants to quit (took on the job at that time).

Actually, you may want to read that conversation if you haven't already - you have some things in common.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS6 on 10/27/2021 2:05 PM
We could really benefit from an onsite professional crew (property manager and/or maintenance technician) but our homeowners don't want to fund that.
Respectfully, I think part of finding balance is being okay with saying "no" to homeowners who are being foolish about major HOA decisions.

Properly notice meetings where the need for paid management is discussed. See if the Board will buy into this. Let the owners have their say. If the Board and owners continue being foolish, you know your options.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS6 on 10/27/2021 2:05 PM
Posted By SheliaH on 10/27/2021 1:59 PM
Yep, you ARE micromanaging things – and if you want to start feeling better about your role as board member (especially president), you need to stop right now. Then again, if you were complaining about this in March, maybe you really are a glutton for punishment – if that’s the case, why are you complaining now? Make up your mind as to what you want to do and how much, and then do it.

As Tim noted, all you really had to do was to let the property manager know the mailbox was down, and then let him/her handle it. In fact, you can probably cut down on at least half of what you’re doing now by reminding homeowners all maintenance requests are to be referred to the property manager.

If you’re concerned about cost or whether the repair really is association responsibility, propose the board come up with a policy mandating when repairs can proceed without everyone (especially you) contemplating their navels over them. To wit: the property manager should be instructed to find out what’s wrong, determine if the damage is in the common area. If so, that’s association responsibility. If the damage was due to misuse or abuse by a homeowner and/or his/her visitors, family members or whatever, they will be required to pay those expenses. Otherwise, the property manager will get a repair estimate if the property manager’s maintenance department can’t handle it. If the estimate exceeds X amount ,notify the board for approval.

Incidentally, we had a handyman on call who would come out once a week and work on a number of minor repairs at once. If he had to purchase supplies, he’d buy them, give the receipts to the property manager and if the expense was under $100, he’d be reimbursed. Maybe that’s what your community needs.

Back to the policy – if the repair costs are higher than X, but lower or equal to Y, the board could authorize the president (you) to approve it or designate that to another board officer, especially if you’re not around for whatever reason. Anything higher must be reviewed by the board. Unless it’s an emergency, wait until the next meeting.


The role you are describing is an onsite property manager and/or onsite maintenance crew. We have neither.

Our offsite property manager cannot work without board direction. So while she can get a vendor to provide a quote for us, the vendor will need pictures of the damage along with the model number of the mailbox so he knows what parts to buy. The offiste property manager cannot determine if damage was done by misuse or which home to bill for the damage. The property manager has no maintenance department and relies on outside vendors, who need an onsite contact so they can do their job efficiently.

We could really benefit from an onsite professional crew (property manager and/or maintenance technician) but our homeowners don't want to fund that.

Your offsite manager cannot work without board direction, really. I do it all the time, it is called a contract. I have emergency authority, given and signed by the board for repairs to $1500.00. From what I see, you don't know how to use your PM or you have the wrong type of agreement.

Want a onsite manager and maintenance crew, be prepared to cough up $120K per year.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HenryS6 on 10/27/2021 1:41 PM
Resolution:

What I am going to do is create a responsibility matrix, where I put a list of different types of things that come to property manager / president / board members attention, and whether this is the type of thing that can be handled by an individual board member, the board as a whole, or the property manager. We will discuss and vote at our next meeting. If in the future something comes to my attention, I will look at the board-approved matrix and determine if it's something that I just take care of or if it is something the whole board should handle.

The only thing is that I do want the entire board to be aware of an issue before I take care of it, so at least one e-mail per issue will have to go out. Otherwise, I'll be quietly doing 90% of the work and nobody besides the PM will realize it.

I think that is a good resolution. We have a similar system except we use committees. Four of our board members chair committees. In reality, the committee chair does most of the work just because it is easier but will use the committee members when they need extra help. For example, the operations committee handles maintenance. If the POA mailbox gets knocked down, he repairs it or finds someone to repair it. He does not need board approval for routine maintenance that falls within the maintenance budget. Each meeting the committee chairs report on what they did for the month. If it is anything unusual, they will send out an email just to keep everyone informed.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posted:
Have you spoken to the other Board members about your concern that they are not doing enough so your life has a better balance?
HenryS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 336
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelS56 on 10/30/2021 12:02 PM
Have you spoken to the other Board members about your concern that they are not doing enough so your life has a better balance?

I don't mind doing 90% of the work. I mind the fact that I get complaints when I keep others informed as to what goes on and try to make decisions as a group. By "I can't work alone", this is not a whine that I am doing too much, it's a statement that our organization is made up of a group of directors and I don't have authority to make decisions without including others.

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