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BrianM4 (New Mexico)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I am on the our HOA's Board of Directors. After a very long out of control homeowners semi-annual meeting, a group of homeowners ask each of us board members individually if we would resign do to "evidence" that they have on the Board's decision to lock the amenity center and possible misuse of funds. As far as I am aware of, none of this is true. When asked if I would resign, I stated no. When asked if I was prepared to be named individually with a class action lawsuit.. I stated "Sure." I stated this only because I know I did nothing wrong. Along with the other board members. We have only made decisions based on advice from our management company. I can not afford to hire an attorney and I don't feel I should resign. Can I be sued personally for our Board's decisions?

Let me tell you one more thing...we are in litigation with this group's leader. I believe this is an attempt to retaliate.

I welcome any and all advice on this matter.

Thank you so much.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
As has been stated here many times, anyone can sue anyone at any time for anything. Doesn't have anything to do with what's been done in the past present or future. Your very next communication should be with your association's insurance company to make sure your Directors & Officers Liability policy is up-to-date, and then ask them those questions. Basically, you want to make sure the association's policy covers you as an individual, if you are named as such in a lawsuit based on your actions representing the association.

Joe

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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Brian,
Joe is right as usual and what is done is done, but it was a mistake to field an accussatory question session like you related. So, try and undo the damage. Certainly you know if you locked the community center or not and had some justification, likewise the use or misuse of funds. The member who asked this kind of question is out of order and told if he wants to persue this subject it will be done by contacting the Boards lawyer.

It is hard to give much useful advice on this forum for a situation that is under litigation, especially when you are asking us to decide if the Board is quilty of some misdeeds, Joe answered your question about suing.
You sound tentative about the prior actions of the Board. Better get this straightened out with board and lawyer. Just don't allow this kind of talk to take place at an open meeting. I am surprised your attorney didn't tell you to direct this stuff to him in a written letter.

Also, I suspect it would be wise to not post anything on this site that is involved in a ongoing legal suit.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Isn't volunteering fun? Joe gave you good advice. You state you did nothing wrong, yet you based all your decisions on advice from your magangement company? How do you know their advice was always correct? Your board, however, is ultimately responsible for your decisions, not the management company.
You're suing the ringleader? Did the advice to sue him come from the management company too? Now he's organized others to sue you all. Win or loose, sounds like lawyers will have full employment. Harold
BrianM4 (New Mexico)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you all very much for your input and advice. I have never been on in a board of directors position before. This was my first time along with our whole association. We just got our community handed over to us approx. 18 months ago. We are still learning. I will contact our attorney and insurance company.

Thank you so much.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Harold,
Let's not cut my friend from SC loose yet. South Carolina has done a lot to create all this confusion. Wish I had a quarter for everytime I heard someone say, "mis-use of funds about a Board", I would owe a few $ myself.
But usually it's not that, it is other things that get in the way, like management companies, managers on an ego trip, presidents on ego trips, "who cares attitude", and know it all owners (me included), but by far it always seems to fall back on the Board's failure to communicate, maybe from lack of knowledge, or lack of "how to's".

I haven't a clue how far their courts battle has been raging but it will end in mediation sooner or later, period.

If possible you both need to cut your losses and stop playing with money that don't belong to you, it gets you in trouble. I am of course, if you are thinking progressively, referring to the funds that got you in the mess and the funds that will get you out. Your associationh money. Sit down with these guys, sit there until you reach some consensus, drop this court business if it is not criminal, and get on with it, and I agree with Harold, have a serious look at your recent history and see how much the Management Company contributed. Life goes on and HOA's are not designed or meant to make absolute sense and in some cases, any sense. If your management company is of long standing, such as a hold over from the developer, consider their worth.
Don't use the CC&R's to make trouble, they are not laws, they are at best quidelines and you will find in SC no one , private or legislation that is going to do anything but give you an opinion and the opinion of the Attorney General of South Carolina and lots of places is: We expect the conduct of private gated or not communities to be a form of self government.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Whoop's !!!!!!!!!
Cross out the Brian from South Carolina, I am the one from SC.
I see Brian is letting loose of a little more info. Harold may be dead center about Management Co.
TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228
Posted:
RobertR1 said "Don't use the CC&R's to make trouble, they are not laws, they are at best quidelines"

At our HOA meeting this past week our board interviewed an new attorney and this advice is very similar to what she said. She also said use the CC&Rs to the boardest interpretation and she is big fan of mediation.

In the suit that the HOA bought against us the board, based on advice of legal councel, refused our requests to mediate. However, the judge assigned ordered mediation and denied their motion to not mediate. So as indicated above talking with this group/the ring leader could be the way to go.

Good luck.

JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
A lot of issues popped up here and I would like to respond to a few of them:

First, your CC&R's are a contract, backed by contract law, not, at best, guidelines. They have legal standing. However, like any contract, the terms can be changed when the parties (in this case the owners) agree to the changes. Until that occurs, the CC&R's should be followed, as the terms of any contract should. When owners feel that the CC&R's are guidelines, that often leads to the assumption that they don't have to be followed. Way too much litigation is the end product of that assumption.

Second, the post gave very little information, and since the matter is in litigation, shouldn't, as RobertR1 pointed out. As a member of the board, Brian should be in a position to obtain all relevant information and to make an informed decision about the need for this litigation. From the tenor of his post, I don't think this is the case, so he needs to develop the questions to the management company, attorney and board that will provide him with the information he needs to make that decision. Once he has that, the decision to continue the suit or seek other means of settling it will be up to the board and his vote on the matter.

Third, the attorney will help decide whether the lawsuit by the owner is a SLAPP suit (retaliatory, designed to force you to abandon your suit) or not and how to handle it. When you have a legal issue, you talk to the experts about it, a lawyer who knows community association law. One of the problems I have with boards (and this forum reflects it) is that they are constantly looking for free legal advice. Unfortunately, it's usually worth exactly what you pay for it. You're in litigation, threatened with more litigation, just make sure your attorney knows what he or she is doing. If they're a local attorney, who's main experience is with closings on home sales, you might want to ask even more questions, and if you don't get solid answers, you may want to go back to square one.

Fourth, in absence of more expert knowledge, the reason an association hires professionals like managers, attorneys and CPA's is to give them advice they need to make an informed decision. To ignore their advice puts a board at even greater risk, should the matter end up in court. All too often I've seen board members literally shredded on the witness stand, for failing to follow the advice of the experts they retained. No, you don't always have to follow their advice, and yes, you should ask them as many questions as you need to, to feel comfortable making a decision. But if you choose to ignore or go against it, make sure the reasoning behind it is solid, and as a little mental check, ask yourself "Would I feel confident, sitting on a witness stand, that I could defend it?"

Fifth, some attorneys still feel uncomfortable with mediation, and not just because they might miss out on a bigger payday. Mediators tend to try and find a middle ground in a dispute, and the middle ground may not always be the best answer. The association may need a clear "one way or the other" decision, if for no other reason than to help provide them guidance in future similar issues.

Last, Robert is right about communication being the major problem. The lack of, or poor use of, communication leads to most of the problems associations have. Here are a few things to remember:

- When there is a lack of any communication, bad information will take its place.

- Good information usually will overcome bad information

- The more informed the board, the better the chance of good decisions - the more informed the owners, the better the chance they will accept those decisions

Last, and this is important - almost every set of association documents contains a clause indemnifying the board for any legal costs incurred arising out of their actions as a board member (with certain exceptions i.e. gross negligence and a few others). However, this clause does not necessarily protect an individual as much as they might expect. First, if you are sued, the board may not decide to cover your legal costs until a decision has been reached (just in case you're found grossly negligent) and you would find yourself fronting all of those defense costs for an unknown period of time. Even if you win the case, the board still might decide not to re-imburse you, forcing you to sue them and front all of those legal costs. If you're on the board, YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF YOUR DIRECTORS & OFFICERS LIABILITY POLICY!!!!! IHG Insurance (a sponsor of this forum to the left) has an excellent article with the questions to ask:

http://www.ihginsurance.com/riskmgt/articles/show_article.php?article_id=5

Simply put, if you can't answer the questions this article asks, get your insurance agent in front of you at the next board meeting and make sure your policy actually covers all of the issues to your satisfaction. Honestly, if they don't, change it or get off the board.

Joe

Joe

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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joe,
I have to take exception with the CC&R's being some kind of contract. If I sign a contract with someone and we want to change the contract, we have the power to change, outside the law. We follow the laws on contracts but we don't all follow the same conditions, changes and covenamts. If an HOA wants to change the CC&R's, with exceptions, they get together and vote a change, but everyone don't have to agree.
All HOA law is constructed by the legislation of the state (with exceptions), all State Law is mandated to the Attorney General of the State and with him rests the power to enforce or not. If the Attorney General says HOAs are to be self coverned by the members what do you conclude? We have the power in our associationss to change our CC&r's, we don't have the power to change laws, that is done by the legislation. You will notice that nowhere in the States Statue does it reference state enforcement action, it may allude to the court for solutions but that is again an opinion. It took me a long time to understand this. I am not advocating we ignore the CC&R's, to the contrary, I am saying abide by the CC&R's and if you can make your case with your members there is a procedure to change them.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Your Bylaws should have indemification clause that shoul read something like this:

The members of the Board of Directors shall not be liable to the Owners for any mistake of judgment, negligence, or otherwise except for their own individual willful misconduct or bad faith. The Owners shall indemify and hold harmless each of the members of the board against all contractural liability to others arising out of contracts made by the Board on behalf of the Association unless any such contracrs shall have been made in bad faith or contrary to the provisions of the Declaration or these Bylaws. It is intended that the members of the board shall have no personal liability with respect to any contract made by them on behalf of the Association, except to the extent that they are Owner(s).

The indemnification provided herein shall not be deemed exclusive of any other rights to which those indemnified may be entitled under any statute, bylaw, agreement, vote of Members or disinterested directors or otherwise, both as to action in his or her offical capacity and as to action in another capacity while holding such office, and shall continue as to a person who has executors and administrators of such person.

The Association may purchase and maintain insurance on behalf of any person who is or was a director, officer, employee or agent of another coporation, partnership, joint venture, trust or other enterprise against any liability asserted against him or her and incurred by him or her in such capacity, or arising out of his or her status as such, whether or not the Association would have the power to indemnify him or her aganist such liability.

The Association's indemnity of any such person who is or was a director, officer, employee or agent of the association, or is or was serving at the request of the association.

In Brief; as long as the board acts as a whole, in good faith, seeks professional advice, opinion and makes the best educated decisions the D&O poicly should indemnify him or her. However should a rouge board member go off on his/her own make decisions without the entire BOD can be held liable for his/her actions, personally.
BarbaraM7 (Virginia)
Posts: 86
Posted:
I was wondering about this too. One of our board members wants the board to approval the removal of an architectural detail above her boyfriend's front door after the fact. He removed this detail without getting approval from the Board of Directors. He then put a new siding patch over the area, and it doesn't match the rest of the siding. While down the street an elderly lady replaced the window above her front door with something not consistent with the neighborhood. The above mentioned board member noticed the change, and insisted that she receive a letter from the board, to change the window, which she did at a cost of $900. Can I be sued if the board allows the boyfriend to not be accountable for the discoloration in his siding, yet othres in the community have had to comply to the Board's decisions exterior changes that weren't approved.
Thanks for any input.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
Sorry Robert, the CC&R's are a contract. When you purchase a lot/unit in an association, you agree to abide by the CC&R's, forming a contract between you and the association, (whether you are aware of it or not). In one of the summaries of the landmark Twin Rivers decision: "The court rejected the central argument in the plaintiffs’ suit – that in establishing and enforcing rules for the community, the association was “acting as a municipality.” Equally significant, the court recognized that while individual constitutional rights are fundamental, “they are not absolute.” There are circumstances, the court noted, “where citizens may waive or otherwise curtail their rights.”

Those circumstances exist in a common interest ownership community, where, the court said, owners enter into a contractual relationship with the association in which they agree voluntarily to abide by its rules. “The mutual benefit and reciprocal nature of those rules and regulations and their enforcement is essential to the fundamental nature of the communal arrangement that Twin Rivers residents enjoy,” Justice Wallace explained."

The state will enforce the contract through civil actions, not state actions.

Joe


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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joe,
All I can say is what I have been told personally, and you have agreed with. That is the CC&R's are rules and not laws. I understand the obligation you assume when you purchase in an HOA. You agreed to abide by the RULES and the State Statute. In SC the state gives the authority to manage the association to the owners by a set of documents. If we want to change those documents of governance we have the ability to do so. Then the members must all abide by the new rules. If the CC&R'd are challenged in the courts, the courts can decide the rules are not legal, meaning the rules are not law, or they can decide the rules are legal, meaning they fit the definition of a legal law. But in no case are they A LAW. Laws have to be made by the legislation and we can construct rules that fit the legislation law, but we do not make laws.
The contract you agree to says you will follow the State Statute. The statute says you will follow the rules under the statute. You have the authority to change the rules to something that is legal or something that is illegal and can be challanged in the courts. When the developer wrote the CC&R's he did not make law nor did he enter into any contract with anyone. He wrote to accomplish what is most benificial to him as long as he abided by the Statute. When we purchased our units and he gave up control, our HOA assumed control of the Rules. Rules that do not apply to us, that only concerned the developer, we agreed to abide by them even though it was impossible because we were not the declarant. Over time in most cases we changed that "contract", but we did not change the Laws.

Anyway Joe, I still say abide by the rules, if you don't like them, change them. If you get challenged, hope you are within the LAW.
I am not sure if our opinions differ in a practical sense.
TomP2 (Arizona)
Posts: 28
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GloriaM on 11/15/2007 1:40 PM
Your Bylaws should have indemification clause that shoul read something like this:

The members of the Board of Directors shall not be liable to the Owners for any mistake of judgment, negligence, or otherwise except for their own individual willful misconduct or bad faith. The Owners shall indemify and hold harmless each of the members of the board against all contractural liability to others arising out of contracts made by the Board on behalf of the Association unless any such contracrs shall have been made in bad faith or contrary to the provisions of the Declaration or these Bylaws. It is intended that the members of the board shall have no personal liability with respect to any contract made by them on behalf of the Association, except to the extent that they are Owner(s).

The indemnification provided herein shall not be deemed exclusive of any other rights to which those indemnified may be entitled under any statute, bylaw, agreement, vote of Members or disinterested directors or otherwise, both as to action in his or her offical capacity and as to action in another capacity while holding such office, and shall continue as to a person who has executors and administrators of such person.

The Association may purchase and maintain insurance on behalf of any person who is or was a director, officer, employee or agent of another coporation, partnership, joint venture, trust or other enterprise against any liability asserted against him or her and incurred by him or her in such capacity, or arising out of his or her status as such, whether or not the Association would have the power to indemnify him or her aganist such liability.

The Association's indemnity of any such person who is or was a director, officer, employee or agent of the association, or is or was serving at the request of the association.

In Brief; as long as the board acts as a whole, in good faith, seeks professional advice, opinion and makes the best educated decisions the D&O poicly should indemnify him or her. However should a rouge board member go off on his/her own make decisions without the entire BOD can be held liable for his/her actions, personally.

Gloria, I like this language very much and wish it was included somewhere in our documents. I am curious why you have this in Bylaws rather than Declaration of CC&Rs?

Some of the info above provided by Joe has had me on the phone with our insurance agent checking our D&O coverage. Great stuff here!

Thanks,
Tom
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
Robert, I don't think we're disagreeing. Yes, the CC&R's are not "laws", but they have the force of law. In other words, the courts will enforce them as if they were law, as long as they haven't been superceded by state or federal laws. The "contract" is what allows associations to sometimes infringe on the constitutional rights of the owners and have the support of the courts in doing so. In other words, you can waive some of your basic rights by purchasing in an association, and the courts, as shown in Twin Rivers, will support them as long as they are "reasonable".

Joe

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PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
BarbaraM7: With this post and your recent other post re architectural issues, does your association have a process in place for submission of architectural requests followed up by approval or denial? Don't your Bylaws refer to the process for this?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
" I have to take exception with the CC&R's being some kind of contract."

Robert, I have to agree with Joe on this one. CC&Rs are not SOME KIND of contract, they ARE a contract.

And I think you are arguing semantics anyway.

In your post that Joe countered, he did not say they were laws, but had the force of a law the same way all legal contracts do. So civilly, one is bound by them.

What you stated was that they are "at best guidelines," which is quite different even from "rules." However, they do still carry an enforcement (or rather compliance) obligation stronger than "guidelines" do.

Anyway, it seems you guys have worked that out...
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michele,
I agree is issue is probably semantics, and I will let your opinion render justice to all, if Joe agrees. It is certainly clear the in the wrong handle damage can be done and in the right hands the, peace will prevail.

Thank you for your interest and good advice.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
Michele, Robert

Sounds good to me to

Thanks

Joe

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www.CommunityAssociations.net

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BarbaraM7 (Virginia)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Yes, we have a Amended Declaration of Covenents, Conditions, and Restrictions that state the following under Article V - Architectural Control: ...nor shall any exterior addition to or chage or alteration therein be made until the plans and specifications showing the nature, kind, shape, height, material, and location of the same shall have been submitted to and approved in writing as to harmony of external design and location in relation to surrounding structures and topography by XXXXXXXX and XXXXX who shall serve as the Architectural Control Committee (ACC).

Now the XXXXX's are the names of the original builders, and this document has never been updated to reflect that all powers were turned over to the Board of Directors (actual residents) since 1989. I believe it is still relevant. In the past if someone has done something to the exterior of their home without prior approval from the ACC, they have had to restore it to it's original appearance if it is found unacceptable, such as the old lady with the different type of window above her front door, or the guy who painted his foundation red, or the man who put on a pinkish-red roof instead of charcoal, etc. I just feel that if other people have had to adhere to the rules or be brought in for due process hearings and/or fined, that the boyfriend of the Board Member should be given the same treatment.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joe and Michele,
I agree with you both and post this stricctly for information purposes. got it off of Wikopedia (sic). Ther is a whole mess of stuff there about this kind of stuff under "bylaws"

I picked the definition that may or may not be the correct one.

Good reading.

[edit] Corporate bylaws
A bylaw is a rule governing the internal management of an organization, such as a business corporation. Bylaws cannot countermand governmental law.

In a business situation, bylaws are drafted by a corporation's founders or directors under the authority of its Charter or Articles of Incorporation. Bylaws widely vary from organization to organization, but generally cover topics such as how directors are elected, how meetings of directors (and in the case of a business, shareholders) are conducted, and what officers the organization will have and a description of their duties.

Bylaws generally can be amended by an organization's Board of Directors.

In parliamentary procedure, particularly Robert's Rules of Order, the bylaws are generally the supreme governing document of an organization, superseded only by the charter of an incorporated society. The bylaws contain the most fundamental principles and rules regarding the nature of the organization. It was once common practice for organizations to have two separate governing documents, a constitution and bylaws, but this has fallen out of favor because of the ease of use, increased clarity, and reduced chance of conflict inherent in a single, unified document. This single document, while properly referred to as the bylaws, is often referred to as a constitution or a constitution and bylaws. Unless otherwise provided by law, the organization does not formally exist until bylaws have been adopted.

[edit] Local bylaws
In the public law of some jurisdictions, bylaws are codes and regulations adopted by and governing matters within the purview of sub-state entities, such as parking, zoning, and retail business licensing. See: ordinance.

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