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CC&RS Vehicle Defintion...

Started by AngelaS5 • 13 replies • 1380 views

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AngelaS5 (Colorado)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Hello! Our CC&Rs touch on Parking and Storage of "vehicles" and "For purposes of this section, a vehicle is defined as an automobile, truck, trailer, camper, boat, motorcycle, or any other motorized vehicle". The parking and storage rules have been interpreted to just apply to the "recreational vehicles" and we would like to redefine vehicles to be "recreational vehicles". Would that be changing the original CC&Rs or could the Board adopt a Rule to clarify? I appreciate any insight!
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
It already says, "or any other motorized vehicle." What do you need to redefine? Maybe I'm not following you. Harold
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
The exact goal here is not clear.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Angela,
Do you mean you can't change the CC&R's? Therefore you must adopt a rule?

In any event you can change the CC&r's to anything you want as long as you don't violate state statute or change something that is described as permanent in your documents. The only thing I know in condo documents are apportionments and even they can be changed with 100% vote.
Basicly everything can be changed with the correct requirements as stated in the CC&R's and if items are not addressed, you can add them, all with the correct vote of members. You will probably find some things in your CC&r's that make no sense at all, just try to make all your changes at once. Change what you want, run it by a good lawyer to cover your butt, and register them with your original document at the court house. Don't fall into the trap that you are looking at laws when you read the CC&R's.

AngelaS5 (Colorado)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Sorry I wasn't more descriptive Our CC&Rs currently read: No vehicle, whether operational or not shall remain parked in front of any residence for more than three calendar days. Vehicles to be parked for more than 3 days or to be stored for indefinite periods of time will be concealed from view by a 6 ft high privacy fence surrounding the rear yard area. For purposes of this section, a vehicle is defined as an automobile, truck, trailer, camper, boat, motorcyle, or any other motorized vehicle.

In 2003 there was a clarification that moving and/or re-parking the vehicle in question, will not restart the three calendar days once the vehicle is first parked. It goes on to state that no vehicle, as defined by the Declaration, may be parked in front of or beside a residence or garage or in any other street or off-street location, for more than three calendar days. As the CC&R is written (the way I'm reading it), a regular car or truck cannot be parked in the street or driveway...it has never been intended to be that restrictive. Furthermore, past Boards have interpreted the CC&R parking rule only to mean campers, trailers, boat, etc..

My concern is someday a homeowner that is being asked to move his boat, will counter that his neighbor has his car out front...why aren't they being asked to move their car. Both are "vehicles" as defined in the CC&Rs. Am I reading too much into it?

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated!
AngelaS5 (Colorado)
Posts: 10
Posted:
RobertR1...

Am I correct in saying to CHANGE the CC&Rs would require a vote and approval of 67% of homeowners? While clarifying the CC&R would just need the Board's approval? We are a voluntary HOA, which has roughly 24 CC&Rs and of that 24, probably half only applied when the subdivision was still being developed. I guess I'm trying to find the path of least resistance with this "clarification". Thanks for your time...
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Angela,

To change the CC&R's you do need a vote from the homeowners. The board cannot make the decision themselves.

We have a similar rule to what you want to change yours to. It does not specify cars.

Consider this; a homeowner had an accident with his car. He parked it in his driveway for 5 months with no tag. It was an eyesore. There were 3 flat tires and a few broken windows. We sent letters and fined to no avail. We could not tow the car because our docs do not allow it. The city would not tow because it was parked on private property and it was the homeowners legally. When the bank finally foreclosed they paid to have it removed.

When you change your doc's keep the future in mind. You never know what will happen. The language can be cleaned up but the essence of the rule is good.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
AngelaS5,

As Nancy said, you need normally a 2/3 vote to Amend any document in CC&R's.

You amend the Documents to keep the association out of trouble, to make in the asssociation better, because you have an obvious clause that just doesn't do the job, etc. Now, that is decided and agreed upon.

To clairify the amendedments you need the above. Now that is agreed.

To interpret the documents you need thee wisdom of Soloman, and the patience of Gandi. The board does have the power to interpret, usually under the clause of a business decision or some broad section in the documents that lets them make braod decisions for the good of the association.

Now, knowing all this and understanding that your association is having trouble with the documents and not pointing fingers, you could be well served if your board would appoint a Documents committee to go over the documents, present changes to the Board and decide what you want to change and do this at an Annual Meeting. It has to be done at a special meeting but just open a short meeting prior to annual meeting to do the changes, and have all your proxies there to met the 67%. Then close the meeting and open the annual meeting.
Think about having a standing covenant/rules Committee and let them suggest changes as appropriate.

Now there is a thing called by some associations as Rules and Conduct.
The Board can make rules and conduct changes, can write new ones and are enforceable. Howeve they cannot violate the CC&R's. Again you get into interpretation. Maybe you all could make a rule to do what you want to do and incorporate it into the documents later. I would believe the Board has this authority. But DO NOT FORGET, you elected the Board, if they don't abide by the associations desires, they can be replaced. Only the association can judge the Board, certainly not I. I will give my opinion but I have no vote there, but I sure have a vote in my association.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
AngelaS5: In my mind, your CC&Rs as stated now, are 'lumping' ALL vehicles the same. A basic car is certainly not the same as a recreational vehicle such as motorcycle, trailer, camper, boat, neither is its registration with the state.

I am reading your post as follows. At present, you have the CC&Rs defined acceptance of 'vehicles' which CAN be parked for 3 days--but AFTER 3 days must be stored/concealed from view by a 6 ft. high privacy fence surrounding the rear yard area.

If this is the correct CC&R interpretation, then it is unreasonable to assume that a resident would have to move his 'car' after being parked 3 days to a stored and concealed location in the rear yard. It is possible that a
resident could be ill or could be on vacation and that is why the car is not being used.

IMHO, you need to address the CC&Rs as a community and reword to a clearer meaning--even to review text on day-to-day parking for residents, parking for guests, etc. Further, what about the actual "area/s to the rear of the yard/s which will require a 6' privacy fence". Is this practical and doable and who will pay for it?

This is one of those "unreasonable rules" in which "someone" did not think beyond his nose.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
I think everyone has missed Angela's comment that "We are a voluntary HOA..." That changes the scope immensely. She doesn't mention how those CC&Rs can be enforced. Without the power to enforce, they are meaningless unless the member "volunteers" to comply. Harold
AngelaS5 (Colorado)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Actually the DUES are voluntary...the rules are not. I believe (certainly could be wrong) that's how it is with all "voluntary" HOAS. My point being I think we may be a little more laid back than other HOAs that have mandatory dues and fines assesed for non-compliance (we do not).

AngelaS5 (Colorado)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I completely agree that's its "unreasonable" to say a homeowner's car or truck can't be parked outside their home. Past Boards have never followed a strict interperation of the rule...just applied it to boats, trailers, etc. Do we (as newer Board members) follow status quo or revise the rule to correctly state how its been applied all these years? My concern is a homeowner with a trailer or boat can say we're NOT applying the rule consistently (as written) and that we're "picking" on him...

Am I heading off a potential problem for the HOA or making too much of it since there's never been a problem with past Baords applying the rule as they see fit?
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
So there you go. With no fines, and voluntary dues, do you have enough funds to go to court to enforce your rules? Harold
AngelaS5 (Colorado)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Fortunately we haven't had to resort going to court to enforce the rules...overall the community is pretty compliant with the CC&Rs. A letter or two usually is all it takes.

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