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TaraR (Arizona)
Posts: 24
Posted:
Question: there’s a master and sub association. My home is in the sub and I occupy a spot on the sub board. There is an opening on the master’s board. The master is telling me that a homeowner that sits on the sub association is not allowed to sit on the master board at the same time. I’ve looked through both sets of documents, there’s no mention of only allowing serving on one board at a time – only verbiage is serving 1 year terms. To me, if I pay two sets of dues, I should be able to volunteer for both boards as long as my schedule does not conflict. If I have a voting right in the sub, then a voting right in the master, I should be able to place myself on the ballot. Anyone ever have this type of conflict?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Tara,
Whoever told you that you cannot serve on the Master Board is all wet.
We have 3 sub Associations and a Master Association. All 3 of the Sub. Presidents are required to serve on the Master Board plus 2 other officers make up the 5 member board.

Sub association members represent their sub assoc. so that the Master gets a fair and equal representation of what is going on from them in each area. You have checked your docs and see nothing other than term limits so with that in mind, knowing that you have carefully read your documents, I would present a statement, quoting what you have found nothing banning your interest in joining the Master Board.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
TaraR - I live in a community with an HOA and COA Board. All single-family households and townhouses pay to the HOA, all townhouses pay to the COA. Those COA households can join the HOA and or the COA Boards. However, while nothing may specifically prohibits you from being a member of both Boards at the same time, you must admit there is a concentration of power in doing so. Gobbling up two Board seats by one person is exactly that. What Boards need are different people to join the front of the table. You may be excluding the opportunity for someone to do that. Fine if no one will step up and the vacancy needs someone. Morally I think you shouldn't do it. IMHO, join one or the other.
Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495
Posted:
Tara, review your douments again - and if your first assessment remains correct; that you can sit on both bodies, then do so. I would also recommend that send a letter to both legal counsels (if you have them for the bodies) and ask the same question.

My community has a "sub" board which I do not sit on, and avoided doing so - not because it would have been an issue of impropriety, but that as President of the larger board (HOA), it would have been too much for one person to understake (especially when both bodies are representing transitioning communities, developer to owner control).

I believe a previous poster noted that there are reserved seats on the Master for those of the sub and I believe that is an EXCELLENT idea. It ensures that the true "demographic" (type of body or unit groups) are fully vested in the overal governance of the community.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Joe,
The way that Master and sub associations are set up here in Florida ,is that the concentration of power as you suggest, is nill. The Master Board has a totally different set of responsibility from the sub associations. Our "sub" has it's own set of CC&Rs, rules and regs and different common property as we are a gated communities. Each section has self enforcement but we cannot weaken or contradict the Master by our own set of documents.

What our Master Board does is to monitor all 3 sub associations, to ensure that we are all following the Master CC&Rs. All 3 subs have different rules and regs because each community has different amenities and areas to control. Therefore, to have a representative from all 3 areas insures that all 3 know what is happening in the Master plan and to keep some similarity to the entire developement. There is also a large Master common area which leads in and out of the developement, which is where our Master dues go. That is why all 3 areas are required to be part of the Master plan. There is absolutely no one person who has more control or any situatuion over the others so having 2 Board positions is never an issue.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 11/10/2007 6:09 AM

Joe,
The way that Master and sub associations are set up here in Florida ,is that the concentration of power as you suggest, is nill. The Master Board has a totally different set of responsibility from the sub associations. Our "sub" has it's own set of CC&Rs, rules and regs and different common property as we are a gated communities. Each section has self enforcement but we cannot weaken or contradict the Master by our own set of documents.

What our Master Board does is to monitor all 3 sub associations, to ensure that we are all following the Master CC&Rs. All 3 subs have different rules and regs because each community has different amenities and areas to control. Therefore, to have a representative from all 3 areas insures that all 3 know what is happening in the Master plan and to keep some similarity to the entire developement. There is also a large Master common area which leads in and out of the developement, which is where our Master dues go. That is why all 3 areas are required to be part of the Master plan. There is absolutely no one person who has more control or any situatuion over the others so having 2 Board positions is never an issue.

DonnaS - I disagree that a concentration of power is nill. Because what I mean by that is one mind cannot think better than or differently than two minds.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Joe,
Sometimes some of the posters think that a H.O.A. is like having the power to start wars, to change the world and to make a difference to the entire mankind. It's isn't. Board members are just that--Board members

I said that the concentration of power is nill, having dual positions on a Master and a sub association. These people in position of leadership are not judges and kings and absolute rulers. They are just homeowners like you and me, who try to read and interpret documents which we all agreed to follow. Sometimes a few get sidetracked and develope big egos with having a position of leadership and some are just simply useless but in the end it is our Documents that show us the way. Power has nothing to do with it. Yes, if some one board member gets too much for a membership to handle, then it is up to them, the members, to rid themselves of the headache or monster.

Yes, two minds are better than one but it is so difficult to get people to get involved if there is just a bit of extra work involved. My post states that all 3 of our subs are required to be members of the Master. They are the representatives, the liaisons from each community who keep things in equal proportion so that 1 sub association does not feel less important than the other 2. All pay dues to the Master, therefore, all deserve representation. And who else has better knowledge of their sub assoc. that it's President.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
DonnaS - Agreed, some believe they can create their own little fifedoms by volunteering for a Board. If those that joined Boards were like me there wouldn't be the kinds of problems that are rampant nationwide. I don't interpret by-laws, I don't fund for items using association funds unless my fiduciary obligation is satisfied first, I don't hold grudges, I don't amend unless there is a compelling reason to do so or a percentage of the owners requests, I post minutes and agendas according to the laws, etc.

The hierarchy (subs required to be members of the Master) is a structure that limits the Board seats from being occupied by the membership at large. It's the way you are structured so I understand and respect that. However, owner apathy is not always a function of owner disinterest.

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