Questions about the HOA disputes

Started by RoyaA • 21 replies • 385 views

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RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Anyone here who has or had a dispute with their HOA, or is a professional HOA manager, a vendor who works with HOAs, the president or other officers of an HOA, or an employee who works for an HOA management company? We are researching about HOA disputes and need your insights into the industry.

We are Legal Rebels. Our mission is to enable people to resolve minor monetary disputes respectfully and encourage positive behaviors.

We want to interview you (only 15 minutes of your time), to better understand the HOA disputes and learn how we can assist HOAs and their members to resolve monetary disputes in the most expedient and just manner.

Here are sample questions:
1) How do you initiate a dispute with HOA?
2) What is the amount of your dispute?
3) What is your biggest challenge when it comes to a dispute with HOAs?
4) How do you solve that challenge?

If interested please let me know.

Thank you so much!

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 9:34 AM

We are Legal Rebels. Our mission is to enable people to resolve minor monetary disputes respectfully and encourage positive behaviors.

We want to interview you (only 15 minutes of your time), to better understand the HOA disputes and learn how we can assist HOAs and their members to resolve monetary disputes in the most expedient and just manner.

RoyaA,

-- Does your organization intend to charge money for this assistance?

-- Does your organization intend to limit its operations to California? I ask because statutory and covenant requirements for dispute resolution vary a good deal from one state to another.

HenryS6 (Arizona)
Posts: 111

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 9:34 AM
Anyone here who has or had a dispute with their HOA, or is a professional HOA manager, a vendor who works with HOAs, the president or other officers of an HOA, or an employee who works for an HOA management company? We are researching about HOA disputes and need your insights into the industry.

We are Legal Rebels. Our mission is to enable people to resolve minor monetary disputes respectfully and encourage positive behaviors.

We want to interview you (only 15 minutes of your time), to better understand the HOA disputes and learn how we can assist HOAs and their members to resolve monetary disputes in the most expedient and just manner.

Here are sample questions:
1) How do you initiate a dispute with HOA?
2) What is the amount of your dispute?
3) What is your biggest challenge when it comes to a dispute with HOAs?
4) How do you solve that challenge?

If interested please let me know.

Thank you so much!

For what it is worth, my understanding is that few HOAs access monetary penalties on homeowners because homeowners don't pay them anyway. They may often threaten to levy a fine but rarely do in practice. In probably nearly every HOA, accessing a monetary fine is not a first plan of action (usually levied only after one or more warnings were issued). I don't see how getting a third party would help anything. The board is made up of neighbors of the homeowner being fined with the third party company is not.

RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

We want to help resolve any monetary dispute between two parties. It can be member to member or member to HOA and HOA to member. We have seen use case such as water leak from one unit to another unit. Or use cases such as parking violations. We want to help anyone with any monetary dispute.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 10:01 AM
We want to help resolve any monetary dispute between two parties. It can be member to member or member to HOA and HOA to member. We have seen use case such as water leak from one unit to another unit. Or use cases such as parking violations. We want to help anyone with any monetary dispute.

How come you did not answer my questions?

If your organization is charging money, then its conduct likely will constitute the unauthorized practice of law. In California, this is a "misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in a county jail or by a fine of up to one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, the person shall be confined in a county jail for not less than 90 days, except in an unusual case where the interests of justice would be served by imposition of a lesser sentence or a fine. If the court imposes only a fine or a sentence of less than 90 days for a second or subsequent conviction under this subdivision, the court shall state the reasons for its sentencing choice on the record."

RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Writing #1.
Yes. Our plan is to charge for the assistance later. Today, we want to validate the challenges and how we can provide best tools to help people resolve their own disputes.

Writing #2.
Our platform is borderless since we are building a legal framework that deals with facts and evidence and we only deal with small monetary disputes.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 10:09 AM
Writing #1.
Yes. Our plan is to charge for the assistance later. Today, we want to validate the challenges and how we can provide best tools to help people resolve their own disputes.

Writing #2.
Our platform is borderless since we are building a legal framework that deals with facts and evidence and we only deal with small monetary disputes.

-- Thank you for answering my questions.

-- Is your organization a law firm? If not, what are the credentials of your proposed staff? Paralegals? Amateurs? Ministers of a certain religion?

-- Use of obfuscating words like "platform" and "framework" separate the professionals from the amateurs?

RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

All we are doing right now is research and nothing else to solve the monetary dispute problem for HOAs and their members.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 10:23 AM
All we are doing right now is research and nothing else to solve the monetary dispute problem for HOAs and their members.

Great. As long as your proposed organization does not charge money for this proposed service, or solicit donations as, say, a non-profit charitable organization, then the organization will be fine.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Roya

Augie thinks he is a lawyer on this forum, which he ain't.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

OK, I'll play. What is your definition of a "minor monetary dispute"?

California already has avenues for internal dispute resolution (see https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Internal-Dispute-Resolution). This helps resolve issues before they blow up and involve lawyers.

And the board/association has no discretion when it comes to assessments - these are spelled out in the CC&Rs, they form part of the contract on one's home, and may not be put aside except maybe in extraordinary circumstances (ie, ones involving lawyers).

Which leaves you with the penny ante stuff. What value to you want to add to the process?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Roya,

Typically disputes are not monetary.

They are usually covenant violations that often get blown way out of proportion.

The most violated covenant (in my experience) is failing to obtain prior approval for an exterior change.

RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Thank you so much for responding.

Here are issue that we have so far seen. Unit B water leaking into unit B which the HOA got involved over the dispute of who pays for the damages.

The value we want to drive is help people resolve their disputes on their own without going to court or lawyers. We want to give people toolkits to help them settle their dispute.

RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Do these violations end up in court? If not how do they get resolved? How much time is spent on both side?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 1:55 PM
Thank you so much for responding.

Here are issue that we have so far seen. Unit B water leaking into unit B which the HOA got involved over the dispute of who pays for the damages.

The value we want to drive is help people resolve their disputes on their own without going to court or lawyers. We want to give people toolkits to help them settle their dispute.

Roya,

I'm in an townhome HOA, not a condominium. I know that condominium issues are far different then HOA issues.

That said, had that issue gotten posted to this site, I would have recommended the following:

1) Turn the issue into insurance companies to get the damage repaired and then let the insurance companies identify who was at fault.

2) The HOA should identify any damage to areas/pipes they are responsible for and turn that into their insurance company - again, letting the insurance companies identify who was at fault.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

In that case it's likely the insurers will settle this and decide who pays for what. It will depend on the terms of the insurance policies of the persons involved - any negotiating will be done by the insurers' lawyers.

The thing about HOA disputes, the procedures for handling and resolving them will be spelled out either in the governing documents or in state law. All parties are bound by these - in fact, the one way to "win" a dispute on, for example, something like fines is to demonstrate that the HOA did not follow the stated procedures. Going outside these will not be legally binding, and will likely invite further dispute.

Another thing that homeowners need to be aware of is that if lawyers are/will be involved in the dispute, disclosing information to a third party will probably void attorney-client privilege - which means that the association will be entitled to this information during discovery, which can hurt the homeowner's chance of winning his case. The third party does not help, it actively makes things worse. This should be disclosed to any potential clients.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 1:55 PM
The value we want to drive is help people resolve their disputes on their own without going to court or lawyers. We want to give people toolkits to help them settle their dispute.

Can you give some examples of the tools you think might go in this "toolkit," with said tools not involving what is technically "legal advice" for which you are, of course, being paid?

RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Thank you for great information. This is very helpful.

RoyaA (California)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Interesting that people will go through their insurance for this case.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Poor example. This is for insurance companies to subrogate. It is not an internal dispute.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RoyaA on 08/27/2021 2:31 PM
Interesting that people will go through their insurance for this case.

Interesting that you think they wouldn't.

Here's another example that actually happened.

A common area tree fell onto private property (a member) during a storm and broke a fence.

Since this was storm damage, HOA insurance would pay to address the tree from the stump to the property line. The members insurance would pay to address the damage from the property line inward.

The member insisted that the HOA pay for the fence.
We informed them to check with their insurance company.
They did, the insurance company agreed.
The problem was the member had a $ 1,000 deductible and simply didn't want to pay it.

Issue resolved in accordance with your goals - without going through the courts or having attorneys involved.

Sometimes, it is simply a matter of providing knowledge of how things work.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

The tools needed to resolve most disputes already exist. It's just that people aren't aware of them, something that comes up in this forum repeatedly.

If somebody could come up with a Vulcan Mind Meld sort of thing that would instantly give HOA/COA members the understanding of what they bought and the personal "mojo" to avoid or work their ways through difficulties, that person would have a valuable item indeed.

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