HOA sent letter threatening to trespass and steal

Quick rundown:
- I have several bee hives in my backyard. They are compliant with City code.
- CCR's state: "No animals, birds, insects, pigeons, poultry or livestock shall be kept on the Property unless the presence of such creatures does not constitute a nuisance"
- CCR's define nuisance in general as sights and smells.
- HOA sent me a letter (anonymously) saying that if I did not remove them within 6 days, they would enter the property and dispose of them themselves and then bill us for the service.

So much to unpack here....

So the HOA sent an anonymous letter "From the Board" giving incredibly short time notice, threatening to trespass and seize property without consent.

CCR and State code all lay out the process for solving grievances. Anyway you shake it, this doesn't align with CCR's and Code.

Any advice for navigating this issue with a king-complex HOA board?

"The course of action I'd suggest is a course of action I can't suggest.”

@BarbaraT1
agreed, if the HOA wants to be more restrictive. However, my position is that the current CCR's do not restrict the activity. I agree, if the HOA board wants to amend the CCR's to restrict, then let's have that discussion, meeting, and vote.

And your board's position is that the current CCRs do restrict, and I'd agree. It says "insects". It says they can't be kept if they are a nuisance. Nuisance is a subjective determination and guess who gets to make that determination - the board!

If you want these people to do something for you, you would be better served dropping this antagonistic stance. Of all people, you should know that you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

@BarbaraT1 and @JohnC46.

Curious why you think it is a clear violation? Do definitions and CCR's not matter, only subjective opinion? Nuisance is defined clearly both in CCR's and code. I strongly disagree that the Board can just make up rules based on how they feel, rather than what explicitly written.

The CCR's define an [animals] are not allowed unless they are not a nuisance.
The CCR's define nuisance as sights and smells.
The City defines nuisance likewise.

While I appreciate your opinions and advice, Can you help me understand how you are justifying your conclusion?

More conversation:

Everyone seems to be responding similarly, that people can be harmed by bees, people have allergies, and there is a subjective opinion of nuisance.

Curious about your response to this:
The definition of "Nuisance" is not subjective, nor are there provisions to innovate a “nuisance" beyond the definitions in the CCR and City Code. And the CCRs do not empower the Board to determine what is a nuisance (otherwise, the Founders would have conveyed that authority to the Board).

If someone has an insect venom allergy, what should the HOA do about the numerous hornets and wasps? (in fact, there is a wasp nest thriving in the HOA President's mailbox currently) How does the HOA police the neighborhood to ensure no stinging insects get in? There is numerous case studies that the bee sting issues need to be determined to come from the source hive. Can a homeowner accurately know that the bee flying around their tomato plants came from my backyard?

Can we consider this thought experiment: if my child has a dog or cat allergy, does that mean all dogs and cats in the “immediate vicinity” should be branded a “nuisance” and banned from the neighborhood. And don’t you dare walk your dog on my street in front of my house either, as my anaphylactic child plays in the front yard: this becomes a no dog walk street.

What about Peanut Allergies? Should we have an inspection gate at the entrance to ensure no dangerous peanuts get into the neighborhood that might kill me?

I know, this are extreme 'what abouts' .... but I am genuinely curious how you can square this with a subjective nuisance opinion about bees?

-- From my reading in the case law, "nuisance" is a legal term of art, with no rigid definition.

-- I would argue that first, the CC&Rs do give the Board some discretion in identifying what is and is not a nuisance. Second, the case law is clear that, where the CC&Rs give discretion to a board, the Board must act reasonably.

-- Is it reasonable for the board to declare your bee hives a nuisance? Maybe. Could the HOA attorney persuade a judge that your bee hives are a nuisance? Maybe.

-- I disagree that home bee hives are necessarily beneficial. Much science on the net says otherwise.

-- I think what should be most important to your decision-making is how much time and money you want to put towards fighting this. I think that neither of the two sides (the Board and you) have what looks like a slam dunk when it comes to going to battle in court, I expect that, if this lands in court, this will be an expensive fight for both sides. The two sides (the Board and you) can play a game of chicken, facing off and seeing if one side caves first. But be ready for the HOA to assess fines (if the governing docs allow fines), and be mindful that those fines won't go away without a legal battle.

I am not a fan of CC&Rs that are open to broad interpretation. It seems to me that if your bees are a nuisance, the board should be able to articulate how they are a nuisance.

In some states, ambiguous CC&Rs are essentially not enforceable. I suggest checking to see what the law is in Idaho. It is likely found in court precedents as opposed to statutes so you probably need to consult with an attorney.

As far as going on your property to correct the problem, they may be able to legally do that if your CC&Rs specifically give them the authority. Our CC&Rs allow the HOA to do so to clean up trash and debris but our attorney advises against it as the authority is dubious (although his main reason for the advice was to avoid being shot).

I have a slightly jaded point of view because I too am allergic to bee stings. I grew up in the intercity where the guy behind us and one house over had multiple hives. I was stung several times each summer. The city didn't do a darn thing about it. You are trying to parse words between insects and nuisance while ignoring the other elephant in the room, safety and welfare. If someone were to be stung, you are setting yourself up for some serious liability. Since you HOA specifically prohibits the keeping of such insects, you signed a legal binding agreement to refrain from such acts when you bought your property. The HOA has every legal right to enter your property and remove the nuisance if you fail to so so, this will also fall under the safety and welfare clause in your governing documents.

Based on what I have researched and with speaking to a couple of friends in Idaho, I say your HOA can pound sand, and then pound it some more.

I'm not allergic to insect stings of any kind, but definitely do NOT like being stung by bees. I am afraid of them, a fear I share with many. To me, they are a potential hazard.

My thoughts about peanuts are neutral. I am not afraid of the presence of peanuts.

Max, how about sharing your "research" into this or a similar topic in ID remembering to cite your sources. Thanks.

If you think facts are important, then please explain to me why what I quoted above (posted by you) is not a lie compared to the following facts, from your HOA's covenants and your city's ordinances?



You need an attorney.

@AugustinD:
I'm honestly not sure what you are getting at here. What Lie are you accusing me of saying? As said many times before, our city code and CCR clearly defines a nuisance.

I believe you are now pivoting and trying to hang on "detrimental to the health or safety of persons or the property of others." As I've stated several times already, there is established case law and precendence that beehives in peoples backyards that are compliant with code are not detrimental to health and safety, as well as there needs to be a positive confirmation that whatever insect stung you came from the defendant's beehives. In addition, (as stated before), The City Code Compliance officer also states (in writing) that if a beehive is in compliance with City Code (# of hives, spacing, flyway barriers, etc), then there is no nuisance violation.

So again, I'd like to circle back to my fundamental question here. Is your opinion that 'nuisance' is subjective? Do we not need to follow the CCR and can we just make up what ever rule we feel like? Does your fear supercede facts and definitions? If so, can I demand that the HOA evict any dogs/cats/peanuts from the community because of my allergies?

AdamL1, I think speculating like this (accusing me of pivoting yada) makes you look foolish.

As I have posted, if push came to shove, I do not know that the HOA would prevail in a lawsuit against you. If push comes to shove, and this dispute lands in court, I do feel that both the HOA and you will likely spend a lot of money, with no guarantee as to the outcome.

You feel confident of the outcome. So go ahead, I dare you: Threaten the HOA with a lawsuit and as needed, file the lawsuit.

Agreed, Rights vs Abilities...but can you tell me that bees did not exist in your yard before me? Can you tell me that my bees went to your house 1 mile away from my hive? Bees are around you right now, with or without a beekeeper housing them in a yard, not to mention the plethora of other insects and wild animals.

And to specifically address "right to jeopardize their free enjoyment of their property." there is numerous case law and precedence that beekeeping does not impinge on another person's backyard enjoyment. As an example, I listed the analogy of peanut allergy, but you quickly dismissed that. Why? Again, replace 'bee' with 'peanut'..."You have the ability to eat peanuts on your property, but you don't necessarily have the right to do so. Based on your logic, people with peanut allergies should not go in their backyard and enjoy their property. ... blah blah blah."

Do you not recognize the hypocrisy? Please help me understand why my peanut allergy should not restrict you. Your reason will also apply to beehives (as supported by numerous case law and precedence).

Finally, can you help me understand if your position is "I can subjectively define what is a nuisance." See previous posts. HOA rules say "...insects are not allowed unless they are not a nuisance" and Nuisance is defined in both the CCR and City Code, and in fact City Code includes rules for how to keep bees such that they are not a nuisance. By definition, beekeeping is not a nuisance. Are you saying you disagree? I just want to understand your point of view.

Boise city code: 11-06-07.4.B
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/boiseid/latest/boise_id/0-0-0-32640

2012 Planning meeting:
http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201201241510598660#:~:text=Beekeeping%20Ordinance%20(Repeal%20and%20Replace%20Existing%20Ordinance)&text=Individuals%20are%20currently%20allowed%20to,apiaries%20when%20land%20area%20allows.

The City Code Compliance Officer stated over phone and in writing that if anyone files a complaint against somebody about this, they then come out and inspect, check to see if everything is up to code. If there are no code violations, then there is nothing to cite a 'nuisance' against.

Bees can easily travel to my home and yard. Peanuts cannot. Bees frighten a large number of people; peanuts only a relative few.

I think the "safety" issue in your city code, as Augustin shows, applies just as it would with other safety issues: slip hazards; loose branches on unhealthy trees; poor exterior lighting. For safety reason, many HOAs ban certain breeds of dogs and they are permitted to.

This line of reasoning stems from my above thought, which Max seems to think I stole from "someone else???" Yet he won't cite his ID source or what it says about this topic.

With Augie, Adam, see an attorney.

AdamL1, I studied this part of the City Code. My conclusion at this point for what it is worth: Good job. If your beekeeping meets the requirements stated in Boise City Code 11-06-07 4. B., then here is the letter I would send to the HOA Board:

Dear Board of Directors,

You have asserted that my beekeeping activities are a nuisance that violate the HOA's covenants. This is not so. Here is why my beekeeping is in fact allowed under the HOA's covenants:

First, the covenants state at Section ____, "No noise or other nuisance, as described in Title 8, Chapter 8 of the Boise City Code, as amended from time to time, shall be permitted to exist or operate upon any portion of the Property so as to be offensive or detrimental to the Property or to its occupants or to other property in the vicinity or to its occupants."

Second, the Boise City Code appears to have changed a bit. Boise City Code Title 4, Chapter 1 now defines nuisance, as follows: "For the purpose of this chapter, the term 'nuisance' is defined to mean any condition or use of property which is detrimental to the health or safety of persons or the property of others, or which is declared to be a nuisance by this chapter, or by any other State or Federal law. Nuisances shall specifically include, but are not limited to, the following:
[and so on]."

Third, Boise City Code explicitly states that beekeeping in this area is allowed, as long as the beekeeping meets the requirements of Section 11-06-07 4. B.

Fourth, my beekeeping activities meet the requirements of Section 11-06-07 4. B.

My beekeeping is clearly not a nuisance under Boise City Code, and so clearly it is also not a violation of the HOA's covenants.

You have threatened to come on my property and remove my bee hives. Respectfully, I believe you have no right to do so. Please stay off my property. Please do not fine me for my beekeeping. Please do nothing further to interfere with my beekeeping. If you do not understand my position, and before you take any other steps, I kindly suggest that you share this letter with the HOA attorney and seek her or his advice.

Thank you for your cooperation,

Adam _____
address
phone number
email addie

Send the letter certified mail, return receipt requested to the HOA's registered agent. The registered agent is usually the HOA manager.

For what its worth, I have sent a letter back to the board that was nearly identical to your draft...explaining the code, etc, and even invited the Board to meet me at my home with a City Code Officer to discuss and demonstrate compliance, but they are still beating the drum of punishment. (even saying "I would have allowed it if you just asked first")

Based on Augustin's most recent finding from a cited (v. anon.) source, sure looks like bees are OK. As often written on these posts, CC&Rs can be stricter, but Adam's are not.

Maybe I missed this earlier, Adam, was permission from the Board required for the bees? Sorry if I've g forgotten.

Besides, Adam had done HIS research, I was just curious, so I did mine. If you want your proof, Google can be your friend.

I just want to echo Max's statements here. From the very beginning, I stated exactly the same thing, multiple times.
1. XYZ is not allowed unless it is not a nuisance.
2. Nuisance is clearly defined in both CCR and City Code
3. XYZ does not meet the definitions of nuisance.

Yet nearly every single person persisted in attacking, not believing my statements, making adhominems, and shifting goal posts. I mean, if you really wanted, I could have posted verbatim city code and CCR's in the OP, but I would think we should discuss the merits of the conversation, not saying that the OP is lying or hiding information.

And still, no one still has addressed my question about how/why you think that the rules are subjective instead of following the literal definition.
anyway...I think we've discussed this ad nauseumnow to just wait and see if the HOA wants to press a losing issue.

Adam

I generally always respond as a management company, as in this case. sometimes, but rarely, I will speak as a former president of a rather large HOA.

If I happen to have a board that decide to sidestep their legal authority, it is very possible they will shortly become former clienst. As a homeowner, board member and property manager, I saw too much of the bad that does on. I deicated my business not to ever go in that direction.

At least when Adam posts, he has the sense to use speel-check. Thank you Adam, as who gives a rats a$$ if your writing is poor. Mine sucks and I drive a 45 foot Foretravel motor coach. Just goes to show, writing ain't everything.

"....and I drive a 45 foot Foretravel motor coach."

And you're so humble too!