Little free libraries

Someone donated a little free library (Google it if you haven't heard of it) to one of our community parks. It's cute and a fun concept, but I want the thing gone. I worry about people leaving inappropriate materials in there for little kids to discover and then parents would be upset at us. It's also not very well made and doesn't look too pretty.

But if you know anything about little free libraries, you know that a vocal minority love them up one side and down the other if we indeed dispose of it. We try to avoid upsetting our homeowners whenever possible.

Has anyone here experienced a little free library in a community park, and do you think that I'm overreacting?

I thought you were burned out and stepping back?

Anyway... you aren't the sole arbiter of what happens in the neighborhood, no matter what office you hold or how much work you do.

I think you are worrying too much. Someone can always leave inappropriate material anywhere and I don't think any reasonable person would blame the HOA.

As long as someone else maintains it, I can't think of a downside.

In general I don't like "donations" that make work for someone else or require the HOA to spend money to maintain the thing.

If someone put up a structure without HOA permission, that person was out of line, no matter how good the intentions were (he could have put it in his own front yard). But this is pretty small potatoes.

If the donor wants to deal with the upkeep (vandalism, theft, etc.) and the library's presence on common area doesn't result in increased liability for the HOA, then I'd let it go and wait to see what happens. If the site starts to collect garbage or larger structures or turns into an eyesore, then it's time to deal with it.

We have several of those around my city and parks. Some of them even have food available. It's a nice neighborly thing to do. As long as the owner of it agrees to maintain it and it's not causing parking issues, what is the issue?

Seriously why in the world would one's mind go to "leaving inappropriate" items? If that did happen, then I am sure the person who found it would either toss it, complain, or keep it. What do you care unless it's your spouse that put it there?

Some of those are used for the geo caching for those who enjoy doing that.

If not approved, it needs to be removed.

The primary reason for not allowing "little libraries" on common areas is that it entices non-residents to visit your premises. Essentially, you forfeit your privilege to enforce trespassing by accepting amenities that welcome the General Public.

If your HOA serves private homes with private yards, it may be installed on private yards as it entices people to visit the private home. You are not over-reacting.

Wow. Just wow. No one thinks this way...

Our Association has two Little Libraries with a bench for each. They are Board approved and were built and maintained by an owner. Another resident has chosen to be the the curator of both making sure that books are removed that are not be read. Each book is marked so that a person knows if the book has been read. some of the books that have been read are reviewed by a reader in our monthly newsletter. Our number issue is too many books. This solved by taking the extra books to Half-Price books and that money goes for maintenance. For our Association these Little Libraries have been a great success.

It is not the HOA's responsibility to protect the community from weirdos. The Board's responsibility is to maintain the safety and integrity of the playground equipment.

Inappropriate items could always be left anywhere to be found by anyone.

WOW! Now sex offenders have been introduced into a post about Little Free Libraries.

CathyA3 - How often does your MC or your Board review the Sex Offender Registry to determine if one has moved in?

Well, you're the one who referred to "weirdos", and in the context of people hanging around places where little kids gather, that's not an unreasonable leap. Especially since this restriction was added to our CC&Rs at the advice of our attorney to prevent liability issues (who'd-a thunk it, right?).

Sorry to disappoint, but we do refer to the registry regularly *and* the county sheriff will notify people of this. Our PM is also involved whenever a home changes hands, and she monitors our rentals since our rental restriction requires the landlord to provide a copy of the lease. We monitor this anyway since we have to re-certify for FHA approval every three years.

In addition, I personally am enrolled in a data monitoring service (thank you, assorted data breaches) that notifies me when a convicted sexual offender of any type moves into my area. In addition #2, we are located within a couple miles of three schools and adjacent to a day care center, and state law prohibits convicted sexual offenders from living near these things.

We are EXTREMELY well informed about this stuff.

Also by the by, many communities in my area have also sprouted "No Trespassing" signs lately. Apparently no strangers are welcome in these here parts, sir or ma'am, weirdo or not.

I'm not worried about a lawsuit.

I do think our HOA should make the "right" decisions, even if the "right" decisions are not necessarily popular amongst homeowners. A big part of why I joined the board is because I saw the previous board was in a state of decay. Under my leadership, we have refreshed the board, re-energized the board, and have a functional homeowners association again. It's important to me that we take the time to make the right decisions.

My opinion, and of course it needs to be decided amongst the board, is this donated little free library needs to go. We are planning on renovating the park that contains the little free library next year, and I think it will go away at that time. Doesn't meet the architectual standards of the renovated park.

What happens when someone else wants to add something to the common area, like a tarot card stand or a children's play set or Fartlek training course equipment? Now the board gets stuck deciding between members wanting to install other things on the common area. None of which the CC&Rs authorize.

Do you think the right decision should not involve consideration of the law, including consideration of the contractual terms that the covenants are? I believe a competent HOA attorney would advise that adding the little free library is too close to an amendment to the CC&Rs; adds liability concerns; and so on. The law here, and especially the covenants, might be your "out" card here, as far as getting rid of the LFL goes.

While not a common occurrence, over the years we have had people volunteer to donate things like a park bench, picnic table, etc. We have always turned them down as we did not want to assume the expense of maintaining and potential liability.

I personally wasn't thinking about dirty books. I was considering the fact that the LFL may attract people to the area who otherwise would not come there, which may include people from outside of the community.

Jack mentioned that the LFL was near a play area where kids come and go unsupervised, which is an obvious concern. We've also discussed similar liability concerns when an HOA considered opening up parts of the common area to outside traffic (eg. hosting tennis leagues or a homeowner who creates a business that brings customers into the community). There is a reason that these kinds can be problematic.

The LFL is no different. Just because it's "a nice thing to do" doesn't change anything. And others have mentioned that this is a slippery slope, since other homeowners with their pet "nice things to do" will expect the HOA to host their things on common areas. The board needs to consider where they want to go with this stuff - and it is the board's decision.

Best practices, yes, learn to delegate and stop micromanaging.

Ooops, the post above wasn't formatted right and I can't edit it.

I'm also on the learn-to-delegate bandwagon, otherwise you'll drive yourself nuts and will have to resign to preserve your mental health. And nobody benefits from that.

I think we all get it. Most/all of the regular posters here are "get it done" folks who pride themselves on doing a good job. But whenever we talk to homeowners who post about their frustrations with their HOAs, we always tell them: "in order to fix this, you need allies."

There are just so many hours in the day, and our brains have just so much bandwidth. Sometimes you have to step away. And frankly, if everything goes to pot, maybe that's the wake-up call the rest of your neighbors need - ownership in an HOA is not a spectator sport.

I have exceptional time management skills.

I don't think I've complained specifically about me being overworked and underpaid, moreso the industry overworking and underpaying managers on the whole. When I was in portfolio there was a huge amount of work, certainly. My salary is good, for my market.

I have absolutely been giving Jack a hard time. First, because I think he's in that category of posters who comes here for validation, not advice, and abuses the goodwill of well meaning posters who take the time to craft thoughtful responses. And second because he reminds me of a board president I worked for at the beginning of my career who was incredibly controlling. I couldn't email the members anything but required meeting notices. If I received an email from any homeowner, I was not supposed to answer it before forwarding it to him for review - even something as simple as 'what is my account balance'. Every month I had to submit a report of every phone call we'd taken from their property and summarize the discussion. And he would demand to know why people had to call us - he felt that if I was doing my job, nobody would ever need to call me for anything. Although I'm not sure what "my job" was supposed to be. I wasn't allowed to speak at meetings unless spoken to first. I wasn't allowed to contact the other board members at all nor did he allow them to contact me. If I suggested maintenance projects to him, he would get angry, and suggest I was accusing him of not noticing the problem himself. If he told me about a maintenance issue, he was angry that I hadn't brought it up to him myself. He refused to accept that the city had any authority over what he wanted to do and spent tens of thousands of dollars filling in a detention pond even though I told him repeatedly that the city wouldn't allow it. When it go to the point that, on the way to a board meeting with him, I sincerely considered crashing my car into a pole so I wouldn't have to be in the same room with him, I realized that I had to tell my director to take me off this account.

It is exhausting and demoralizing to try to work with someone who cannot relinquish control of even the tiniest decision and who has decided that you are incompetent and incapable before even giving you a task to perform. That's what I see in this particular poster.

Maybe. Maybe not. But as long as this is your position, then I think it's fair to assume JackJ9 has superb time management skills as well, and all while being paid nothing. Zero.

I think these allegations of micro-managing and failing to delegate are unsupportable. JackJ9's HOA currently lacks an appropriate management structure. He's not micro managing. He's actually likely doing what a manager would do.

Sure JackJ9 could go out to the community and gladhand to get some bodies to do xyz (again, for no pay). But for the greater part, I think trying to "delegate" tasks and projects to volunteers (with all this delegation requiring votes of the board) is an oxymoron. I think JackJ9's time would be better spent lobbying the Board to change the management structure and get something more permanent and lasting in place, and then following through with an assessment increase. Anyone who does not like it can step up and put in the mega-hours JackJ9 is putting in.

I want JackJ9 following the law, especially on open meetings. But change like what is apparently needed does not happen over night.

Nor do you know otherwise.

JackJ9 has posted enough about his HOA that I am persuaded that the HOA needs to at least re-evaluate its paid management needs. That's my opinion. Tough cookies to your inability to tolerate a different opinion.

Sorry, I am semi-retired. My daughter does the day to day chores. I just handle escrows, 10 yesterday and 11 today, remotely I might add. LOVE IT!

How often does Barbara post? Twice a day, MAYBE. I will give her time off for lunch and a couple of 15 minute breaks.

Sorry the pay can be shoddy. I worked for a company having to manage 20 condos for $35K a year. A general manager in a high rise in Los Angeles gets $150K or more, and then as an employee, not the hire of another management company. But, I haven't seen Barbara complain about her pay.

Nor is JackJ9's schedule any of your business.

[shrug] Actually our BarbaraT1 has complained about overwork as well. Does this mean her schedule is fair game?

Neither person's schedule is fair game AFAIC.

But I guess this is the proverbial internet pile-on and another thread to beat the cr-p out of JackJ9, attacking him personally.