I don’t want to be that owner, but I think I am going to have to be.

First off, ARC applications are not a Board meeting item that needs to be put on the agenda and voted on. ARC applications go to the ad-hoc committee for your HOA. 99.999% of the time they are rubber stamped approved. They almost come back with conditional approval..

No, I would not jump the gun and have it installed. If you have a well known PV installer they won't install the panels unless you have your "permission slip"

Personally, I don't know how or why you are paying on PV panels that are not yet installed. I had a PV system installed the first week of May and I did not get my net meter from NVE until the second week of June when I was able to energize my solar system. I still have not seen a bill.

Just wait it out, Call the PM office in the morning and put a pretty please, I'm antsy to get my solar installed to the PM you just might get it that day.

Red flag on play. A company claiming to work with HOAs. I call BS on. There is no way they have worked with a HOA. That did not happen. Unless a HOA hired them directly. Otherwise they mispoke and meant they worked with people who belong to an HOA. Plus how do they know your HOA process? Read your documents?

Wait before you leap in further. You could be sunk over this. Finding that company does not care.

Not Necessarily Melissa. I had my PV system from Sunrun and they vow to do everything. My PV sales rep asked who the HOA management company was so they can pull the ARC. My sales rep said for those less inclined homeowners, she goes door to door for neighbors to sign off on the ARC.

That is likely what the OP's PV company meant when they work with HOA's.

Tom, rooftop PV systems are a God given right to own and have on your house, just like satellite dishes are. They have Federal laws like PRB-1 & PRB-2 pertain to satellite dishes.

If you submitted your ARC in April, I would say the 45 day window for approval has come and gone. Call your HOA PM ASAP and tell them you need to proceed immediately with your install.

I wouldn't fret too much about saving money yet on your PV system rehung the AC. You bank the bulk of your net metering credits in the winter months so you can crank that AC in the summer next year, and the years to come.

TomP11, one reason I think you should wait is that there is case law saying that, even if a HOA member has the ACC's approval (explicitly or implicitly via the deadline having passed?), courts have disallowed architectural changes (or aspects of an architectural change) that clearly violated the architectural covenants. For California, and as interested, see https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Case-Law/Woodridge-v-Nielsen .

Also, per the covenants or rules the ARC/Board has 45 days. For you to complain that your application has not been approved, when 45 days have not even passed, is not playing fair and IMO is downright snotty. Your recourse for getting ARC applications approved more quickly is to step up and get on the ARC or the HOA Board. Are you willing to do so? I am betting not. I urge you to be nice until at least August 12. Also, be an advocate for following the rules.

When 45 days have passed, then you can start deriding the HOA and from where I am sitting, have it mean something.

To clarify: Unless you are quite sure your application violates no covenants, I would not proceed until I had the approval.

[shaking head, smiling] I understand around 85% of this country now has a smart phone. Also I would be surprised if you had not attended a meeting by Zoom or Google Meet in the last year. So just sayin': I think you need a better excuse than the above, neighbor. It's okay to say, "I don't want to do all the work" and then have a touch of empathy for those folks who are stuck enforcing covenants, without compensation, helping ensure your property values stay high.

I am 100% pro-solar and hope you get your system up and running soon.

I read the new CA statue when it became effective (jan. '18? ) that CA HOAs must permit owners to install solar on their roofs even if the roof is common area. But certainly an HOA would need it's own ARC guidelines for this, whether or not the roof is common area. Does you HOA have such guidelines?

I do assume your specialized installation firm is completely familiar with this CA statute?

Are your roofs common area? Are there solar panels installed on other homes in your HOA?

Sorry, I don't think you should risk installing this even you don't have a response within 45 days.

Ah, yes. I do not recall they "wanted to kick in everyone's door."

I hate to be the one to tell you, but it is possible the Board is so P'O'd about the previous water meter thing, that they aren't being as responsive as they might be. I wouldn't stick my finger in their eye.

With LetA, I was surprised too that ARC apps are reviewed in open board meetings in you HOA.

Update: I guess I am that owner.

I received a response back from the property management company and before they even forward the Architectural Application, they are requiring an environmental impact study, structural report, and power bills for the past 12 months. Minus the power bills, this will cause a huge delay and increase cost to my solar project. It is rooftop solar. None of this was mentioned on the solar Architectural Application.

I forward to email to my solar company, and they said none of that is needed and it seems that they are trying to prevent me for getting solar. They are going to have their attorney write a letter to my HOA about it.

The hardest part should have been getting the permit from the city and power company not the HOA.

MelissaP1,

But what would a structure report do? I have asked around and no one has heard of a structure report for solar. The city and power do not require it. Plus an environmental impact study. That takes years and cost more than solar system? If a roof cannot support solar, it wouldn't be able to support a garage door.

The company is really big in CA and has nothing but positive reviews.

Actually, some of these guys know how a HOA works better than the directors themselves. I served with a couple on CAI Educational Committees.

TomP, unless I am missing something, I don't see what is wrong with you moving to have your solar panels installed the day after the default approval kicks in. At that point, your project is approved.

Yes, I understand that they are two different things. However he's saying the law gives them 45 days or the project is granted automatic approval. He's saying he's moving forward on the 46th day--after it's automatically approved. This is to avoid the homeowner from being held hostage by a slow ARC Committee. How long realistically should his application remain open with no action taken?

Anna

Care to read about two such:

Columbia SC

NEIGHBORS COMPEL MAN TO RAZE GARAGE
PUBLICATION: State, The (Columbia, SC)
DATE: September 14, 2011
Page: 1

David Matthews, a Columbia optometrist, has agreed to tear down his garage to settle a lawsuit brought against him by his neighbors.

The settlement, reached last week in the middle of a trial in front of Judge Joseph Strickland, brings to a close a year of tense litigation that turned neighbors into spies and increased homeowners’ association dues so much that it threatened the sale of one home.

And it will cost homeowners thousands of dollars in attorneys fees.
"The sad part is nobody wins," said association president Lanier Jones. "But I would say that the homeowners are victorious in doing what they set out to do. There are nine of us on that street. It’s just been a wonderful little street of dreams. This (lawsuit) has just caved a lot of that."
Cameron Court, whose nine homes are squeezed on one acre of land just off Devine Street near Kilbourne Road, is one of hundreds of homeowners associations in Richland County. To live there, buyers must sign a contract that governs what they can and cannot do with their property. In Cameron Court, the homeowner owns the home, while the association owns the yard. Homeowners pay dues to the association, which pays for things like landscaping and sprinkler systems.

In Cameron Court, Mat-thews built a 20- by 12.5-foot brick garage at the end of his driveway. According to the rules, Mat-thews had to give construction plans to the association’s board for approval. If the board does not respond in 60 days, the request is automatically approved.

Matthews said he submitted the plans and the board did not respond. The board denies this.
Attempts to reach Matthews were unsuccessful.

According to the settlement, Matthews has two weeks to remove the garage at his own expense. And he must restore the property to its original condition before he started construction. The association agreed to deed Matthews his back yard. While Matthews will own the property, he still must abide by the association’s contract before building anything.

The association, meanwhile, is stuck with an enormous legal bill. It’s unclear how much the work will cost. Earlier this year, the association increased its annual dues to $8,100 from $1,320 to help pay for the attorneys fees, which were estimated at $50,000.

One homeowner, Polly Osborn, told The State newspaper that homeowners would have to pay an extra $15,000 each. Jones disputes that, saying the legal fees are still being tallied.
"Litigation is expensive. Taking a case to trial is very expensive," said Tina Cundari, the association’s attorney. "We were fully prepared to try the case. It would be a three-day trial. We had a lot of depositions in this case, and it was a pretty contentious fight up until the end."
The outcome of the case might be a bit extreme. But that kind of fight, it turns out, isn’t all that rare.

Homeowners associations increased significantly during the housing boom of the past decade, according to Ryan McCabe, an attorney with Columbia’s Rogers, Town-send and Thomas law firm, which represents 285 homeowners associations.

"During the real estate boom, especially from ’04 to ’08, you started seeing the average lot size shrink as developers were trying to put more and more lots in less space," McCabe said. "You got a lot more of these townhomes and patio communities, things of that nature. People who live closer together are just bound to have more friction."

McCabe said his firm averages two homeowners association lawsuits a month, but said it was rare for a homeowner to have to tear down an existing structure. But it’s not unprecedented.

NASCAR driver Todd Bodine built a 14-by 42-foot pool house and tiki hut at his home in Mooresville, N.C. The Harris Village Property Owners Association sued, because it had only given Bodine permission to build a 10-by-14-foot pool house and tiki hut.

The case did not end until four years later, when the North Carolina Supreme Court ruled Bodine had to tear the structure down.

NOTE: The quoted attorney Ryan McCabe is my associations attorney.

My PV ARC was approved the same day, not because I am a board member. I submitted it early am, by early afternoon I received the confirmation email. We just have a really cool PM.

What violation of the Fair Housing Act are you alleging here?

And "both guns"? Are you suggesting there is a difference between a HUD complaint and an FHA complaint?

Why would you not get it installed on August 13? According to state law it is approved effective August 12. The board can consider it or not after that date but their decision is moot.

Maybe I am in the wrong, but I know many of you are on HOA boards and maybe they are doing the right thing.

I keep on getting pushback on the Structural Report and the Environmental Impact Report. My solar company did one when they sent it to the city of a permit. It was the require basic one just saying that the roof is in good enough condition and the total weight of the system. The HOA keeps saying that is no good and I must go get this $2,500 report. May I add that the total cost of the system is a little of $11k and $8k after the tax rebate. Most companies are honest and will not do it because that know it isn’t necessary. I am guessing those companies are cheaper and it isn’t worth their time.

Just about every company I called for an Environmental Impact study said no and it is ridiculous to get one for root top solar. There was one company, but they want to charge $15k. I sent this information to the HOA and Property Management company and they basically said oh well.
Now I feel like they are just being petty. Licenses that the solar company has they are saying that they are incorrect. Even though the solar company gave information on the licenses and what they are allowed to do. They are now requiring an electrician and not the solar company to wire up the solar. Other petty things, I sent photocopies of everything so I can keep the originals. They said no because they want the wet signatures. They want to change the colors of the solar stickers and want the stickers. The solar company said that they have to be the red and yellow color. Now, they don’t want the stickers on the electrical panel.

The solar company has their own filing system and they called my place an apartment they want it changed to condo which has nothing to do with anything. They want to see the math work for the wire calculations.

Moving on to insurance. With the new CC&Rs we are now required of the outside of the building and common areas. Basically painting and termite damage. However, we are still required to have an HO6 policy. So my policy did not mention the square footage of my place and it that the internal wall materials listed. Because it is an HO6 policy The HOA is mad because it is showing the internal walls and are requiring me to change it. The insurance company is pushing back saying that it is not part of a HO6 policy and basically telling the HOA no.

All of this is for roof top solar. Maybe I am in the wrong. Please let me know. Because every time correct what they say, they add some more new rules.

First, there should be no reason for the PM to holding up the process unless they are gathering the right information for the Architectural Committee. I would be asking for the written guidelines they have on file for gaining their approval. It may be them flying by the seat of their pants.

Second, you mention that you need a HO-6 policy, meaning your HOA has a master policy in place. You also mentioned the roofs are your responsibility. I am assuming your HOA had a re-write of their CCRs and changed some of the responsibilities from HOA to homeowner. I think someone might have screwed up. You can't just shift over thr responsibility of roof from one entity to another. There are reserves studies and reserve monies covering the roofs, there are insurance requirements and liability issues. A HO=6 policy is a condo policy.

They could be dragging their feet for very good reasons, mainly because they might not have their sh$t together.

Actually, Texas now is the king of rolling blackouts and shutdowns.

-- From an earlier thread, a California judge approved re-stated CC&Rs. For one thing, the re-stated CC&Rs transferred the maintenance responsibility for each unit's roof from the HOA to each unit's owner. From what TomP11 indicated in the earlier thread, the HOA ran out of money and considered itself stuck with seeking a court order to re-state the CC&Rs.

-- It makes sense to me that the HOA is requiring TomP11 to get more than HO-6 insurance before he proceeds with putting solar panels on the roof.

Tom

Tom

A basic question. What type/style is your home? is a standalone home,
townhouse/multi plex meaning side by side units, or an apartment style
meaning units above and below your unit.

What I am searching for is the roof yours alone as it would being a standalone home
or is it a roof sharing as it would be in the other style units?

Does the HOA maintain the outside of your building including the roofs? If so, I would not allow one to install solar panels on what is technically, not your property but that of the HOA.

Do your amended CC&Rs say that the roofs are now part of the unit (meaning you own the roof above your head) or are they limited common elements (means the association essentially owns them but unit owners are responsible for maintenance)?

It's a meaningful distinction in condominiums and could be a legitimate source of problems here.

Also, does CA's law apply to COAs as well as HOAs (where people typically own their roofs) or is there any kind of exception to the law for condominiums?

For what it's worth, not that it helps you solve this problem, but I think that amending the CC&Rs was a strange and maybe short-sighted way to deal with a financial problem. The definitions of unit, common elements and limited common elements, and the associated maintenance responsibilities, are tied to the physical structure of the buildings. They make sense. Financial problems don't change that fact, and I can understand the kind of confusion that's arising now since the whole shebang may not logically hang together. I understand how associations can feel as though they've been backed into a corner with no good options, but the board should probably anticipate similar issues down the pike. And maybe they do, which is why it's taking so long - they may have discovered that they've backed themselves into a different corner. Or maybe they're just being jerks... :-)

Hold on, Tom. Only owners may vote to amend the CC&Rs and usually a supermajority is required to approve change. This means that apparently a big majority of you owners voted to change the CC&Rs to give yourselves a lot more maintenance and repair responsibility. And apparently, this was fairly recent. Yournew restated CC&Rs have a recorders stamp on a page near the end, right?

I'm also confused when you write that your EXterior is "drywall," which so far as I know only is used on interiors. I think another name for it is sheet rock. Maybe your exterior is stucco? Or?

What do you mean, Tom, when you write that the PM ordered you to do this or that? The PM has no authority over you, only the Board does. Do the latest new written demands say they were approved by the Board? Or is the letter from the PM "on behalf of the Board?" How could this be if the Board makes ARC decisions in open meetings?

You are correct that in CA, owners may install solar even on common area roofs. We have, for example, about 10 of our 200+ condo units that are street Level have their "own" roofs, i.e., no one is above them. Each could theoretically install solar on their roofs and there are lots of guidelines, etc., to do this and also the owner must take complete responsibility for repairing their roof or returning it to its original (non solar) condition if desired or needed. Since no one in my HOA has asked yet for this ARC change, which would indeed be very expensive, I haven't learned much about it.