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HOA Management Company refusing to disclose basic HOA information?

Started by AdamL1 • 43 replies • 719 views

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AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
So wondering what your input is here. I'm new to the HOA world and trying to understand how it works.

Our HOA has not held a meeting since May of 2019, due to covid. I emailed the management company asking for basic information like Who are the names of the members on the Board, the President, Treasurer, etc. What are the various committees the HOA runs? What is the election schedule and procedure? How are nominations made? How are agenda items added and determined? How is voting performed?

The Admin responded saying that there won't be a meeting "until we are out of COVID," and that they will not provide names, contact information, or details about the board or committees due to concerns of privacy and safety, specifically saying "there might be some nut job that wants to harass a board member"

So I guess my questions are about how this is allowed? How is it secret to know the information of a publicly elected HOA board?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
AdamL1, google for the Idaho Nonprofit Corporation Act. Find the section that addresses inspection of records by members. Make a formal request to the HOA's registered agent for the past two years of Minutes of Board meetings, quoting the pertinent section of the Idaho Nonprofit Corporation Act. You can also request the HOA's tax forms. These often give the name of board members.

Get a copy of the Bylaws and review its requirements.

Please confirm: Is this a community of stand alone homes, or is it a condominium? Built what year?
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
I would imagine that Idaho passed a state law allowing boards to meet by Zoom or other electronic means during the pandemic. Virginia did.

Can't imagine why the names of the board members would be secret, or how they think they could get away with that. Or why they would want to. There must be minutes of the last annual meetings, in which they were elected.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
great response. It's a community of stand alone homes. I've read through the CCR's and have quoted to the management company directly citing sections talking about Auditing the Books, but they are not budging.

Section 4.6. Books, Financial Statements and Audit. The Board of Directors
shall cause to be maintained a full set of books and records showing the financial
condition of the affairs of the Corporation in a manner consistent with generally
accepted accounting principles. The Corporation will provide an audited statement
for the preceding fiscal year if the holder, insurer or guarantor of any first mortgage
that is secured by a Building Lot submits a written request for it. A copy of each
audit shall be delivered to each Member within thirty (30) days after the completion
of such audit. An annual operating statement reflecting income and expenditures of
the Corporation shall be distributed to each Member within ninety (90) days after the
end of each fiscal year, and to first mortgagees who have in writing requested notice
of Corporation proceedings.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
AdamL1, from your response to my response, I am confident that you will need to hire an attorney to write a proper request for the Minutes and to obtain a copy of the Bylaws. The Bylaws will answer many of your questions about elections. Good luck.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Can you help me understand what you mean? Why are standalones different than condos? Why do you think an atty needs to be hired for this (imo straightforward) request?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Your opinion and what things are can be different. Have you read your by laws or CC&RS? Think you need to slow your roll a little bit. It is not for you to educate on what you want but to ask for it. Responses vary and everyone is volunteer but for the MC. Which is not a member of your HOA. They just work for them
Former HOA President
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Adam,
Sounds like your PMC and maybe your board are doing what some local governments are doing and using Covid 19 as a reason for making emergency decisions. Seems odd that they would still be this secretive.

Is this a new Development? How old is your HOA?
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
old development from the 90's. A lot of grumpy uptight old people original homeowners and then a lot of young families like myself moving in when a home changes over.
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
You should have a copy of the Declaration of Covenants and the bylaws in your closing documents, from when you bought the house.
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Sorry, my error, you already have the Covenants.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/06/2021 10:38 AM
So wondering what your input is here. I'm new to the HOA world and trying to understand how it works.

Our HOA has not held a meeting since May of 2019, due to covid. I emailed the management company asking for basic information like Who are the names of the members on the Board, the President, Treasurer, etc. What are the various committees the HOA runs? What is the election schedule and procedure? How are nominations made? How are agenda items added and determined? How is voting performed?

The Admin responded saying that there won't be a meeting "until we are out of COVID," and that they will not provide names, contact information, or details about the board or committees due to concerns of privacy and safety, specifically saying "there might be some nut job that wants to harass a board member"

So I guess my questions are about how this is allowed? How is it secret to know the information of a publicly elected HOA board?

Your questions are perfectly reasonable. But if the management company isn't cooperative that statement is worth about as much as a jug of air.

If your association is incorporated (which it probably is) the names of the officers of the corporation should be on some state database. In Texas, it's the Secretary of State's office. You can also read your own governing documents to see how often the board is supposed to meet, and how elections are supposed to take place. I say supposed to because who knows if that's what they are actually doing. If you don't have a copy of your governing documents those too should be on file with some government database, most likely the county clerk.

Go back to the manager with a cheery attitude of "I'm a new owner and just trying to understand how all this works. I'm not asking for emails or phone numbers, just basic information about how all this works. When was the last board meeting? Are there minutes? Are there any meetings coming up? I just want to be a good member of the association!"

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Adam,
Barbara makes some great suggestions. When dealing with any new situation you should assume they will be helpful and willing to assist you with your questions or concerns.

If you come in HOT and seem demanding you will usually get the Cold responses. It may be too late to make a good first impression now. It never hurt to try again.

How large is your HOA? Do you guys have any Amenities? How much are your dues monthly or annually? If you live in a small community the PMC may be only give very limited support to the board and answering a million questions rapid fire may make you what some (including me have referred to here as a Ankle biter) to management. You are asking questions that deserve answers in my opinion. Be patient and persistent.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Good points and advice. "I'm a new owner and just trying to understand how all this works." is nearly verbatim how I approached and asked, including something like "I am wanting to be a responsible and educated member of our HOA". That's why its surprising how they responded.

your other questions:
146 homes, $620/yr dues. no amenities. They have hired a local management company, whom I am emailing with.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Adam,
I am not a Property Manager and we have several on this site. It sounds like your HOA is what they call a Portfolio account. That means the PMC divides the amount of time they provide to your HOA with several other HOAs in your area. You still deserve answers but they may take longer than you may expect.

AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Yep, it seems like the PMC has a dozen different HOA's in the area. I agree, response might be slow and that's ok; however, I got a fast response saying its all secret and then subtly referring to me as a nutjob that will harass the board members, and that there are no plans for an annual meeting and that we'll just have to wait until covid is over.

Just all seems a bit fishy.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/06/2021 11:59 AM
Can you help me understand what you mean? Why are standalones different than condos? Why do you think an atty needs to be hired for this (imo straightforward) request?
-- re stand alone homes vs. condo associations: Many states have one statute dedicated to condominiums, and another statute dedicated to non-condo HOAs. Furthermore, and as Barbara pointed out, most likely your HOA is a nonprofit corporation, and so Idaho's nonprofit corporation act applies.

-- I think you have to hire an attorney because the records you are attempting to request are not the records listed in the nonprofit corporation act. You appear to have blown off looking up the nonprofit corporation act to see what you need to provide when requesting Board Meeting Minutes. I mean seriously: Did you google as I directed for this statute, and then locate the section about record inspections by members? Do you even understand the point of this?

-- What you quoted from your covenants is nice but not altogether relevant.

-- Barbara is correct that the Idaho Secretary of State office has a web site where one may look up corporations. It likely lists yours. Some of the answers to your questions might be found by obtaining documents through the Idaho Secretary of State.

-- You show no signs of attempting to answer your questions by googling for, say, the nonprofit corporation act.

-- When a person new here does not "know answer when told," then from a lot of experience, I realize the chances are high he or she is not going to be able to understand a good deal of the information folks here share. He or she is stuck hiring an attorney.

-- Especially if the manager and board show signs of not wanting to part with records and basic information, even sophisticated HOA/COA members are stuck hiring an attorney to get these records. Having volunteers serve as directors of a corporation is a lousy system of government.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/06/2021 2:21 PM
Many states have [a] statute dedicated to condominiums,
Idaho is one of them. For the archives, google on:

Idaho’s Condominium Property Act, I.C. §55-1501 et. seq.

Idaho does not have a HOA statute.

Hence my query if AdamL1's community is a condominium or not.

Overwhelmed yet?

Hire the attorney.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/06/2021 1:25 PM
Yep, it seems like the PMC has a dozen different HOA's in the area. I agree, response might be slow and that's ok; however, I got a fast response saying its all secret and then subtly referring to me as a nutjob that will harass the board members, and that there are no plans for an annual meeting and that we'll just have to wait until covid is over.

Just all seems a bit fishy.

Well Adam, not gonna lie, the fact that you also started a thread wondering why you got a violation notice and others didn't, something seems a bit fishy to me too! I suspect there's more to your story.

But even if there is - here's the reality. Boards and management companies don't do stuff they are supposed to do all the time. There is no body of oversight for HOAs or management companies. Even in states that have robust legislation dictating what associations can and can't do it's up to members to enforce that legislation through the courts. Even in states like Nevada, that has an HOA ombudsman, you're only getting a sympathetic ear, not a state official with the power to compel your board or manager to do what they are supposed to be doing.

So "are they allowed to do..." is a question of little use, practically speaking. Even if everyone on the internet agrees that you should have received the information you requested, you didn't and that's the reality you have to deal with.

Since you've already tried the "assume best intentions" method of asking, next step is to take it up the chain of command at the management company. The manager who answered your email likely has a director. Pick up the phone, call the main office, ask to speak to that person. Explain that you tried to get basic information about the association from Manager, but met this roadblock and can they please help. Stay calm, stay polite, don't assign motives.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your HOA does seem to be incorporated, Adam. This mean there must be Bylaws that should have been given to you when your escrow closed. It's the Bylaws which state how often board meetings must be, info about elections and when the annual meeting of members (owners) is, etc. There are no names of directors or officers the Bylaws, but there are sections about their duties.

Follow Augstin's advice o go straight to an HOA attorney .
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
@Augustin, Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your response, tone, and assumptions. What answer answer am I not knowing when told?

The point of this post was not to ask about technical procedures of how to ask for records. The point of this post was about asking how to deal w/ an HOA and PMC that is refusing to provide basic information to its members and refusing to hold an annual meeting in 2+ years.

If all you want to do is point to the code when asked about how to deal with a non-compliant HOA, then I guess there's not much conversation here to have.

In general, I asked the PMC for basic information like who the board members are and when the annual meeting will be. Some of the other questions are most conversational like general education of how the voting works, which of course I can learn through the CCR's but I would assume that the company hired to manage the HOA would be able to help a new member. Your response that its my fault that I didn't read the code is not relevant to the post.

Yes, I did google that Title30 code, as well as copied the relevant section of the CCR's talking about records. I'm not sure why you are getting so snippy about this. In general, the records I'm requesting are listed in both places as a requirement to provide. I'm not sure why you seem to think i've 'blown off looking up' this information. I requested this info from the PMC and their response was "go away, its private."

I think you are genuinely trying to help and share information, but it seems your tone and assumptions are a bit off. Anyway, thanks for the help.

Curious if anyone else has dealt with an HOA that is not very responsive to its members?

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/06/2021 3:15 PM
The point of this post was not to ask about technical procedures of how to ask for records.
Okay.
Quote:
The point of this post was about asking how to deal w/ an HOA and PMC that is refusing to provide basic information to its members and refusing to hold an annual meeting in 2+ years.
Okay.
Quote:
If all you want to do is point to the code when asked about how to deal with a non-compliant HOA, then I guess there's not much conversation here to have.
-- I have been snippy. I should apologize, but... never mind. I get that you are displeased and kinda frustrated. All of us have been there.

-- The first step to get some action from the manager and board is to ever-so-politely-and-concisely quote back the law to them and make a request for specific records. But I understand this does not make sense to you. It's okay. Others here will play good cop with an appropriate dose of bad cop and show more patience in teaching you. I appreciate your patience. Good luck.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Adam, as previously noted, you'll learn how elections & nominations work in the Bylaws. This info is NOT in the CC&Rs. If you don't have the Bylaws, write a request to the PMC, return receipt requested asking for a copy.

Your problem is not unusual and I suspect a portfolio PMC does not even know the content of your HOA's Bylaws to answer some of your questions. But your state's nonprofit corporations code shawl have some answers about voting, elections, etc.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
To the PMC members on this thread.

Have any of you guys or ladies heard about other HOAs going into (Emergency State Mode) and decide not to not hold Elections till Covid 19 is over? What does Over actually mean anyway. I doubt it will ever be gone and forgotten. I am just curious what PMCs have done. I my HOA we went virtual and had a Hybrid election that was not without some minor issues but we did follow the long standing rules in the CC&Rs.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 07/06/2021 3:51 PM

-- The first step to get some action from the manager and board is to ever-so-politely-and-concisely quote back the law to them and make a request for specific records.
And if this does not work, then you are stuck hiring an attorney, whose own first step will be to write a more polished version of the letter you should write.

A failure of an association to provide records that the law requires the association to provide is a leading complaint among HOA/COA members. Keep reading here, and you will see that you are not at all alone in this quest for records. (And it should not be a quest.)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 07/06/2021 5:28 PM
To the PMC members on this thread.

Have any of you guys or ladies heard about other HOAs going into (Emergency State Mode) and decide not to not hold Elections till Covid 19 is over? What does Over actually mean anyway. I doubt it will ever be gone and forgotten. I am just curious what PMCs have done. I my HOA we went virtual and had a Hybrid election that was not without some minor issues but we did follow the long standing rules in the CC&Rs.

We delayed our 2020 (April 2020) Annual Meeting due to Covid concerns. We told people the present BOD would stay in place . There would have been 2 of 5 positions open for election. Not one owner objected to the way we handled the situation. We have recently decided to have an Annual Meeting in November 2021. At that time, all 5 BOD Positions will be open.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 07/06/2021 5:28 PM
To the PMC members on this thread.

Have any of you guys or ladies heard about other HOAs going into (Emergency State Mode) and decide not to not hold Elections till Covid 19 is over? What does Over actually mean anyway. I doubt it will ever be gone and forgotten. I am just curious what PMCs have done. I my HOA we went virtual and had a Hybrid election that was not without some minor issues but we did follow the long standing rules in the CC&Rs.

We had an election scheduled in March; it was postponed. We ended up having it in July. No venues nearby were renting space though so we just had it outside, at the pool. State restrictions are a factor here. As you know, Texas barely had any.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
here's the response I just got back in writing:

"
Thank you for your email & interest in the HOA. The fiscal year is Jan thru Dec. Due to Covid, there hasn't been an Annual Meeting since 2019. At the Annual Meeting, is typically when the financials are distributed to & discussed with the homeowners. As the management company, we are your first line of communication regarding any questions, issues, concerns, etc. Emailing is the preferred form of communication, so there is written record of the correspondence. For the safety & privacy of the Board Members, we do not give out their names. You will have a chance to meet them when we're able to have the Annual Meeting. Once we're out of stage four and can find a place to host the Annual Meeting, letters will be sent to all the homeowners informing them of the time & place.
"

wow.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/07/2021 7:50 AM
here's the response I just got back in writing:

"
Thank you for your email & interest in the HOA. The fiscal year is Jan thru Dec. Due to Covid, there hasn't been an Annual Meeting since 2019. At the Annual Meeting, is typically when the financials are distributed to & discussed with the homeowners. As the management company, we are your first line of communication regarding any questions, issues, concerns, etc. Emailing is the preferred form of communication, so there is written record of the correspondence. For the safety & privacy of the Board Members, we do not give out their names. You will have a chance to meet them when we're able to have the Annual Meeting. Once we're out of stage four and can find a place to host the Annual Meeting, letters will be sent to all the homeowners informing them of the time & place.
"

wow.

The not giving out names thing is... bonkers.

I don't know what HOAs are required to disclose in your state - you'll have to google that. If there are things they have to provide you, ask for them citing the appropriate code.

My response to this email would be:

"Thank you so much for the information! What was the date of that last meeting in 2019? Please send me the financial reports that were distributed at that time and any other information that was handed out. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to give out emails and phone numbers of board members without their permission, but I have to admit, I'm a little concerned for my own safety in this neighborhood if board members are so in fear for their lives that no one can know their names! At the annual meeting, do they introduce themselves or do they go by an alias? How are we able to meet them at an annual meeting if their identities must be kept secret?"

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 07/07/2021 8:11 AM
At the annual meeting, do they introduce themselves or do they go by an alias?
lol. Very funny.

A serious 1.5 cents of AugustinD input though: I discourage snark; cuteness; and exclamation points in any communications with HOA/COA management or the board.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
@Barbara...I agree, bonkers. It is suspicious and draws more attention about them refusing to provide basic information.
@Augustin. Agreed too. I'm trying to keep it matter-of-fact, and wanting to learn the rules and lay of the land.

Did you see that they are refusing to provide financials?

Did you see that they have no plans to hold the next meeting, even though Idaho Stage4 COVID restrictions allow large gatherings and is basically the final release stage from COVID? Also, there's this thing called zoom...

So what do? Its clear the HOA Board and the PMC are trying to play some strategy, whatever it might be, and are not following the CCR's and State Code. Why would the HOA Board be acting this way? Are they really wanting to remain in power that bad?
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/07/2021 9:32 AM
I'm trying to keep it matter-of-fact, and wanting to learn the rules and lay of the land.

Did you see that they are refusing to provide financials?
Respectfully, I continue to maintain that you need to send a more formal request, citing exactly which financials you want and citing the statute and covenant sections that back this up. It is a first step, with a lot of legal weight behind it.

I mean, you aren't thinking there are, I dunno, some mafia goons that will help you shake the information out of these folks, are you?

Again, this is a very common problem with HOAs/COAs, much complained about here and elsewhere. As a matter of law, it's an area where many boards and managers are at their greatest vulnerability. In other words, there's typiecally very little of a defense a HOA/COA Board has to argue that a member should not have certain records. With just a few caveats, the courts do not put up with withholding corporate records to which members/shareholders are entitled.

Of course, the wily-er HOAs/COAs implement the following strategy to harass members: In states where it is possible (like Idaho I believe), delay providing the records, and delay some more. It is an extremely effective tool of harassment, and it is hard to fight. AdamL1, you may be getting a dose of this.

Good job sticking with the matter-of-fact, cool-as-a-cucumber approach. If you want, draft up your (utterly emotion-less) next request, and I will edit it here.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/07/2021 9:32 AM
@Barbara...I agree, bonkers. It is suspicious and draws more attention about them refusing to provide basic information.
@Augustin. Agreed too. I'm trying to keep it matter-of-fact, and wanting to learn the rules and lay of the land.

Did you see that they are refusing to provide financials?

Did you see that they have no plans to hold the next meeting, even though Idaho Stage4 COVID restrictions allow large gatherings and is basically the final release stage from COVID? Also, there's this thing called zoom...

So what do? Its clear the HOA Board and the PMC are trying to play some strategy, whatever it might be, and are not following the CCR's and State Code. Why would the HOA Board be acting this way? Are they really wanting to remain in power that bad?

None of us could possibly know what they are thinking. I mean, we can speculate. Maybe all the board members died and the management company is covering it up. Maybe the board never existed and the manager is controlling everything in a Wizard of Oz scenario.

Yes, I'm being snarky but come now - why are you asking us something we cannot possibly know?

I have worked with lots of boards who don't like telling homeowners anything because explaining things to homeowners can be a pain in the butt. I can't tell you how many times a routine board meeting spawned crazy rumors and community panic because a homeowner didn't understand what they heard. To paraphrase Men in Black, "A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky animals."

That said, I am always on the side of transparency because nothing makes people more curious about something than being told they can't know about it. Publish the monthly financials and people will stop asking "what do are dues pay for anyway!", publish meeting minutes and people will lose interest in attending one. If this manager had just said "the board members are Bob Smith, Bob Jones and Bob Miller" you'd probably have gone about your business with perhaps a minute of reflection on the coincidence that they are all named Bob.

If you just want to know the names, check the corporate filings with the secretary of state. If you want to know why they are being so cagey... that will require more effort.

How about talking to your neighbors?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We are modifying our contract with our PM. Several BOD Members (especially the President) are upset members are contacting them directly. I for one am not upset especially if contacted via Email. We have always use an Email address for owners to contact the BOD. All Email sent to the address, automatically gets distributed to each BOD Member. They want the MC to handle all and any issues. They believe they should not have to have any direct contact with members except at meetings. I for one believe some owners will always want to deal with a BOD Member and there is no way to stop them.

We are awaiting the proposal from our MC but my initial reaction is this will not stop some people from directly contacting BOD Members so it could be a waste of money. We shall see.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Augustine: "Respectfully, I continue to maintain that you need to send a more formal request, citing exactly which financials you want and citing the statute and covenant sections that back this up. It is a first step, with a lot of legal weight behind it."

You need to do this, Adam. Especially specify WHICH "financials." My HOA has maybe 70 pages of financials a month. In Ca, owners must be specific with their requests, and may not receive financials further back than 2 years plus the current year. Owners also may not ask their PM to compile records. Let's say you want to know the average amount of fines against owners over the past year. The PM need NOT look at even month and make a little chart for you.

Haven't you started talking with your neighbors, yet, as Barbara suggests?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Augustine: "Respectfully, I continue to maintain that you need to send a more formal request, citing exactly which financials you want and citing the statute and covenant sections that back this up. It is a first step, with a lot of legal weight behind it."

You need to do this, Adam. Especially specify WHICH "financials." My HOA has maybe 70 pages of financials a month. In Ca, owners must be specific with their requests, and may not receive financials further back than 2 years plus the current year. Owners also may not ask their PM to compile records. Let's say you want to know the average amount of fines against owners over the past year. The PM need NOT look at even month and make a little chart for you.

Haven't you started talking with your neighbors, yet, as Barbara suggests?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I am traveling from California to Michigan to spend two months. While on the I-40 outside of Oklahoma City, I received a request from a homeowner for the insurance declaration page for their HOA so they could do a refinance. My passenger, my wife was able to pull the document from the cloud and attach it to the email and send from my phone.

I lived in an HOA where some of the same tactics were applied. I would ask for minutes, reserve studies, you name it, to the point where they put a stop to it and directed all inquiries to the association's legal counsel without telling the Board.

I got into this business because I felt there was a lack of transparency and customer service. If releasing the names of the board is a privacy issue, get off the board, it ain't for you. You represent the association and its members.

You happen to live in a state where they don't regulate much, it's pretty fending for yourselves. I prefer handling things via email, you have a written record, I can store it and respond at any time, even while traveling this country.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 07/07/2021 9:53 AM

... snip...

I have worked with lots of boards who don't like telling homeowners anything because explaining things to homeowners can be a pain in the butt. I can't tell you how many times a routine board meeting spawned crazy rumors and community panic because a homeowner didn't understand what they heard.

... snip...


This is exactly why our attorneys cautioned board members against answering anything outside of proper channels (for example, on social media). They also said individual board members shouldn't respond to questions, other than to direct the homeowner to the correct source such as a website. A single board member does not speak for the board, but the homeowner will almost certainly hear it as "the board says..." even if the board member says that it's a personal opinion only. And it can look like favoritism if an owner appears to get special attention.

To paraphrase one of my favorite authors, a lie will travel around the world (or the HOA) faster than the truth can put its boots on.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/07/2021 12:29 PM
Augustine: "Respectfully, I continue to maintain that you need to send a more formal request, citing exactly which financials you want and citing the statute and covenant sections that back this up. It is a first step, with a lot of legal weight behind it."

You need to do this, Adam. Especially specify WHICH "financials." My HOA has maybe 70 pages of financials a month. In Ca, owners must be specific with their requests, and may not receive financials further back than 2 years plus the current year. Owners also may not ask their PM to compile records. Let's say you want to know the average amount of fines against owners over the past year. The PM need NOT look at even month and make a little chart for you.

...

I agree with Augustin and Kerry - if for no other reason that you want a paper trail proving that you have made a lawful request. In some states (Florida?) this also starts a ticking clock, and the HOA or COA must provide the information within a specific time frame.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
All 50 HOA's I manage have their own web portal available free of charge to any homeowner within their respective community. I have up to six years worth of information for any homeowner to view, download or print. They are all in labeled folders, agendas, minutes, financials, insurance, reserve studies.

If you dealing with a MC, their software should include this service. IF, for some reason a board doesn't want this information disclosed, I would respectively ask the client to look for another MC that would abide by this wishes. I did have to turn away two for that reason, but it makes the job so much easier. Transparency solves so many stupid issues.
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
so its been a week of more back and forth emails and now we're at the point of total breakdown and frustration.

- the PMC is refusing to give any information, claiming all requests must be approved by the board. (asking for details of who's on the board, committees, asking for financials and budgets, asking for plan for when annual meeting will be scheduled, etc).
- the HOA president tells me that any questions I have should be directed to the Management company and that she will not disclose information about board members, cannot/will not share any financial history, and will not schedule any meeting until COVID is over. She also stated that she cannot schedule a zoom meeting because there are old people that might not be able to use zoom.
- The HOA president told me that only 1 board seat is up for re-election. (CCR's state minimum 3 board members with 1 year terms and all board can/must be revoted at any annual meeting or special meeting).
- The PMC tells me there is no Secretary and has not been a secretary for a long time.
- The PMC tells me they cannot share any financial information because they just signed on as the PMC in January 2020 and thus have no previous records.
- the PMC told me "you've only been here 6 months, what do you know? these board members have been here 20 years." and "good luck" when I asked him when a meeting will take place.

This has gone back and forth several times now with both the PMC and the President, with me calmly and firmly reminding them of the CCR's and Idaho State Law. However, they both continue to claim they are abiding by all.

So what do now? Start gathering signatures and petition and force a Special Meeting? Get a County Court order forcing a meeting? Its clear this HOA board is not acting in the interest of its members.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamL1 on 07/12/2021 3:57 PM
so its been a week of more back and forth emails and now we're at the point of total breakdown and frustration.

- the PMC is refusing to give any information, claiming all requests must be approved by the board. (asking for details of who's on the board, committees, asking for financials and budgets, asking for plan for when annual meeting will be scheduled, etc).
- the HOA president tells me that any questions I have should be directed to the Management company and that she will not disclose information about board members, cannot/will not share any financial history, and will not schedule any meeting until COVID is over. She also stated that she cannot schedule a zoom meeting because there are old people that might not be able to use zoom.
- The HOA president told me that only 1 board seat is up for re-election. (CCR's state minimum 3 board members with 1 year terms and all board can/must be revoted at any annual meeting or special meeting).
- The PMC tells me there is no Secretary and has not been a secretary for a long time.
- The PMC tells me they cannot share any financial information because they just signed on as the PMC in January 2020 and thus have no previous records.
- the PMC told me "you've only been here 6 months, what do you know? these board members have been here 20 years." and "good luck" when I asked him when a meeting will take place.

This has gone back and forth several times now with both the PMC and the President, with me calmly and firmly reminding them of the CCR's and Idaho State Law. However, they both continue to claim they are abiding by all.

So what do now? Start gathering signatures and petition and force a Special Meeting? Get a County Court order forcing a meeting? Its clear this HOA board is not acting in the interest of its members.

You've made some progress - you've spoken to the board president. Presumably you now know her name too.

Have you talked to any of your neighbors yet?
AdamL1 (UnitedStates)
Posts: 559
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 07/12/2021 5:53 PM

You've made some progress - you've spoken to the board president. Presumably you now know her name too.

Have you talked to any of your neighbors yet?

a few. many ppl are 'disgruntled' with the leadership, the several CCR-nazis, and the lack of transparency. I haven't really gone door to door, just friends/neighbors I know.

next steps? Both the PMC and the Prez are simply stonewalling us. Time to force a meeting?
JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
AdamL1, your issues have been very similar to mine.
I'm in a different state, so this may not apply in Idaho.
I looked up our HOA on the Secretary of State website to get our control number.
Then rang the secretary of state to ask how to get copies of the annual reports. I had to fill out a form and pay $20 and they sent all of the years annual reports to me.
Those annual reports listed directors for each year.
Some states you can do this entirely on line.

https://sosbiz.idaho.gov/search/business

I called the Register of Deeds to get copies of our Master Deed, Bylaws, Amendments, etc.
They didn't charge me anything, they just emailed them to me. About six years ago I did the same thing by physically visiting the Register of Deeds, and paid a few dollars to get copies.

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