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LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
Several unit owners wish to have the condo complex’s VERY old jacuzzi removed since it is never used and costs a lot to maintain/repair. Would removal of this amenity require the majority vote of unit owners or simply the decision of the Board? Our CC&R’s do not address removal of an amenity.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LauraG8 on 06/16/2021 10:23 PM
Several unit owners wish to have the condo complex’s VERY old jacuzzi removed since it is never used and costs a lot to maintain/repair. Would removal of this amenity require the majority vote of unit owners or simply the decision of the Board? Our CC&R’s do not address removal of an amenity.

It would need majority vote of the owners.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LauraG8 on 06/16/2021 10:23 PM
Several unit owners wish to have the condo complex’s VERY old jacuzzi removed since it is never used and costs a lot to maintain/repair. Would removal of this amenity require the majority vote of unit owners or simply the decision of the Board? Our CC&R’s do not address removal of an amenity.
Is the jacuzzi listed in the CC&Rs as a common element? If so, I say the best way to get rid of the jacuzzi is to amend your CC&Rs to eliminate the jacuzzi as a common element. Use the procedure given in the CC&Rs for amending, and attempt the amendment in consultation with an attorney.

Then again this site suggests the Board could do it: https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Eliminating-HOA-Amenities

If you and others want to propose this at a Board meeting, during the open forum section of the meeting, then I would speak of both possibilities and how the COA/HOA attorney should be consulted.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
As others have said it may depend e on your documents. When our board pushed for getting rid of our pool, we interpreted the documents as saying this would require 70% of homeowners to approve because that's what we need to amend theCCRs.

for the 18 months, we published ballots in the newsletter and mailed them (twice) to encourage people to vote. The board also prepared a fact sheet explaining the issues with the pool, how much it would cost to fix (it had been closed for two years because of budget issues - due to delinquencies) and the usage rate (only 5% of 156 units). That helped us get the approvals we needed.

After all that our attorney reviewed our documents and said we DIDN'T require homeowner approval. Apparently, our documents allow the board to dump the amenities in the documents listed, which basically consisted of the pool and clubhouse. Again, I don't remember the exact verbiage, but he added we were smart to run this By the homeowners and get their approval instead of simply going ahead with dumping it.

So be sure to run the pros and cons of keeping the Jacuzzi, including cost, so people will make an informed decision. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I suspect Max is correct, and our CC&Rs near the very end (no time to look up now) have something about Owners voting to remove common area elements or components. It might say 67% needed.

Even if yours are silent, Laura, Sheila is right to suggest you informally poll owners anyway.

Also see Augustin's citation. I don't think it's common, though, to have every amenity listed in the CC&Rs.

Here's a question: as an item listed in the reserve study, may reserve funds be used to remove this component and replace it with something else? I think so based on CA Civil Code. Check with your reserve analyst, Laura. Are you on the Board?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 06/17/2021 2:31 AM
Posted By LauraG8 on 06/16/2021 10:23 PM
Several unit owners wish to have the condo complex’s VERY old jacuzzi removed since it is never used and costs a lot to maintain/repair. Would removal of this amenity require the majority vote of unit owners or simply the decision of the Board? Our CC&R’s do not address removal of an amenity.
Is the jacuzzi listed in the CC&Rs as a common element? If so, I say the best way to get rid of the jacuzzi is to amend your CC&Rs to eliminate the jacuzzi as a common element. Use the procedure given in the CC&Rs for amending, and attempt the amendment in consultation with an attorney.

Then again this site suggests the Board could do it: https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Eliminating-HOA-Amenities

If you and others want to propose this at a Board meeting, during the open forum section of the meeting, then I would speak of both possibilities and how the COA/HOA attorney should be consulted.

Yes, the site mentioned does say that based on a New Hampshire court case a California HOA Board might be able to close down an amenity on their own. What the opinion left out which is mighty important is the Board and outside community jumped through hoops to get a consensus. I don't think the cae would have been reversed if they had not gone through those measures.
AugustinD
Posts: 3,698
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 06/17/2021 10:08 AM

Yes, the site mentioned does say that based on a New Hampshire court case a California HOA Board might be able to close down an amenity on their own. What the opinion left out which is mighty important is the Board and outside community jumped through hoops to get a consensus. I don't think the cae would have been reversed if they had not gone through those measures.
Just saying: I think what the davis-stirling.com site should have mentioned, but instead left out, the fact that, in the New Hampshire appeals court decision, the HOA had successfully amended the covenants (by direction of the trial court) to allow it to close amenities with approval of a council of sub-association like entities. From http://home.sandiego.edu/~jminan/landuse/Schaefer%20v%20Eastman%20CommunityAssociation.pdf:

ECA amended article VII of the declaration to include the following provision: “The Board shall have authority to ... (g) close any amenity with **755 the approval of two-thirds of the Council. In reaching this judgement the Board may take into account, among other factors, the cost of preserving, maintaining, and/or improving the amenity *190 and the extent of Owner usage it receives.” The amendments became effective on January 20, 2001. On March 23, 2001, the board, following the process established by the amendment, requested the council's approval of the board's decision to close Snow Hill ski area. On April 14, 2001, the council, also following the process established by the amendment, voted forty-five to nine to approve the closing of Snow Hill ski area.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I would not want to remove an amenity without owner approval. I say at least 51% agreeing, if not 67%. Just makes it less sticky if owners agree.
LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
Yes, Kerry, I am on the Board.

In review of our CC&Rs, (written in 1980j, I find the following wording which *may suggest that the decision would rest with the members of the Association. I find no other wording governing common area amenities or any such thing.

“Association shall mean an incorporated association, consisting of all owners of units in the project, which entity shall have the duty of maintaining, operating and managing the Common Area of the project in the manner and to the extent provided for herein. Each owner shall become a member of the XXX Owner's Association, Inc., a California non-profit mutual benefit corporation, contemporaneously with the
acquisition of his unit, without further documentation of any kind or nature.”

“Control of Common Area:
The Common Area shall be controlled by the owners in common through their membership in the Association. The Association shall have the responsibility to manage and maintain, or cause to be managed and maintained, all of the Common Area, in a state of high quality and in good repair, so as to keep the whole project in a first class condition.”

Let me know what you think.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
What does the doc say about board duties and responsiblities?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
You Quoted:

“Control of Common Area:
The Common Area shall be controlled by the owners in common through their membership in the Association. The Association shall have the responsibility to manage and maintain, or cause to be managed and maintained, all of the Common Area, in a state of high quality and in good repair, so as to keep the whole project in a first class condition.”


I say this says "a majority" of the owners have the responsibility to manage/maintain and to change the common area.
LauraG8 (California)
Posts: 56
Posted:
Thank you! I’m now thinking the same thing.

I also came across this language, for what it’s worth:
“The Board of Directors, or its duly appointed manager or agent, if any, shall have the exclusive right to paint, decorate, repair, maintain and alter or modify the exterior walls, balconies, railings, exterior door surfaces, roofs and all installations and improvements on the Common Area, and no owner of a unit shall be permitted to do or have done anv such work.”
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Do people not use it because of it's current condition? How healthy are your reserves? You can use reserve funds to totally replace the jacuzzi.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
My HOA's CC&Rs do not say owner must vote to make changes to the common area. They also give the Board control over decisions about the common area. I may have missed something, though. Yours seem to as well, Laura.

I really think you should get your HOA attorney's advice on a vote. If it must be formal with ballots sent out, etc., I hope your election Rules are up to date. and this will cost some $$. If your attorney says it's OK to send out an advisory survey via blast or even take an advisory vote at an open board meeting, that's much faster & costs less.

As others have mentioned, it's makes for a happier assn. if you check with owners whether required or not.

Again, do check with your reserve analyst to see if you can use reserves to remove the hot tub. I think you can IF, of course, it's listed as a component indoor study.

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