Paint denial letter

No. I expect you should have gotten permission which you did not. 2-3-6 months later does not matter. It appears to be a violation.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=cMVMPZdI&id=200A7685CD41E2958298AD61885A4AF3127C2ACD&thid=OIP.cMVMPZdIwvv1fM0rkZNEiQHaE8&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.loveremodeled.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F10%2FPure-White-vs.-Alabaster.png%3Fx55617&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR70c54c3d9748c2fbf57ccd2b91934489%3Frik%3DzSp8EvNKWohhrQ%26pid%3DImgRaw&exph=400&expw=600&q=alabaster+versus+white&simid=608020060439665024&ck=69F0C57F277673094F18274171EBF677&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=0&sim=11

A guy was approved for Snow Bound paint. It is brighter than mine.

Thanks for the reply. I showed all the board and their lawyer pictures of white homes in the neighborhood. They didn't even know about them. They also didn't know they were approved from last fall.

The property manager told others no Alabaster was allowed. My denial letter only states No White body paint is approved nor painted brick. We don't have an approved color list.

HIA bringing a lawyer to my appeals meeting that I called is not a Good Faith meeting as the covenants state I have the right to have. Lawyer showed bias and aggression as if I was already guilty.

-- I realize you are repeating (for clarity et cetera). Giving help across the internet has its challenges. Patience is key, and I appreciate yours in repeating things.

-- The net says alabaster is a type of white. I would not use the argument that 'alabaster is not a white color.' I think doing so hurts your credibility.I agree the lack of an approved color list works in your favor. But I would keep in mind that the HOA and HOA manager may be annoyed you violated the procedures in the first place, by not getting advance permission. The latter is a big deal. A HOA member adds to the Board's and HOA manager's work by not following the rules. I say this so as to be mindful of the reality here. You have not behaved perfectly yourself. I think, as you try to resolve this in your faovr, as needed in your communications with the HOA you have to swallow some pride and own this.

In my experience, when you assert this is not a 'good faith meeting' by the board, because the HOA attorney will be present, you are way ahead of yourself. Nationwide, and even in the courts, the consensus is that the due process that corporations, universities and the like administer should meet certain basic requirements. The courts yada are not wild about everyone lawyering up early on. But nor is it generally considered illegal to bring an attorney to a low level hearing such as the HOA's.

Which brings us to: You have your own right to bring your own attorney. Unfortunately, the financial burden of hiring an attorney is much greater on you than it is on the Board. The Board of course is using the membership's money to have the attorney present. Furthermore, the HOA attorney is legally obliged to advocate 'in the best interests of his/her client, the HOA.' The latter is open to some interpretation. The HOA attorney may be doing what the board wants, regardless of whether the HOA attorney truly thinks this is in the best interests of the HOA. Or the HOA attorney might be one of the wiser ones; hear you out; possibly recognize that selective enforcement is going on and this is a no-no; and maybe take your side. Granted this might be after the hearing. You just gotta go to the hearing, present your arguments in just-the-facts style, calmly and without emotion, and see what happens.

At this point I think the best thing you can do is ask people here at hoatalk what arguments they suggest you make at this hearing so you can keep your white-painted (yeah yeah; alabaster-painted; whatever) home.

I think you need to be contrite about not getting advance permission. Keep in mind that the HOA has much more resources (money) than you, and so it has much more power. If justice in the HOA world comes at all, it often only comes at great expense and after many months. I think you have to decide how far you want to push this.

own, not won. typos....

SteveR11, the only things I agree with are that --

-- You have to make your case at the hearing, using arguments that are compelling. From where I am sitting, some of what you are presenting is compelling. Some is not compelling.

-- Putting forth your arguments in the style you are doing here at HOATalk ('I'm right. The Board is wrong.') is not the way I would present the arguments at the hearing.

-- What the board decides after the hearing is what the board decides.

Okay. Good luck.

Am I missing something here? HOA has an attorney involved but homeowner doesn't?

HOA files ARC violation, has hearing and then determines fines. Homeowner files appeal citing other homes with "white doors". Alabaster is a shade of white.

At this point it may have been wise for the HOA to consult their attorney for an enforceable remedy since the HOA failed to supply an acceptable color scheme and allowed other "white doors". But, why is the HOA attorney attending the hearings and appeals?

Wouldn't the expense fall on the owner to provide their own attorney to argue the variations of accepted colors in the first place? Then as necessary, get the HOA attorney involved in response to receiving a letter from the owner's attorney.

Perhaps ARC requests for white doors were approved by previous Boards. Doesn't mean that the current Board has to follow the path of those Boards. Although it may permit those other white doors to remain until another ARC request is received to change the color.

Approval first, then paint.

Each HOA has in their CCRs a section labeled Architectural Control Committee. This is a standing committee, meaning it is a must have. Most HOA's I have dealt with delegate this to the HOA Board, not even attempting to have members within the community sit on the committee. The problem arises that there are usually no written guidelines or standards for committee members to act upon.

I have dealt with over a hundred HOA's in 13 years and I can count on one hand the number of communities that actually had written guidelines. So inconsistence decisions are based on the whims of one board or another. In the beginning, there may have been a set of written guidelines, but over the years they seem to have disappeared. That's why I like websites. Get all the information scanned and loaded onto the cloud. Full transparency. Although with the financial health of a community, a perspective buyer should look to see if there are written guidelines when making changes to your property. Floor coverings in multi story condos is a big area of concern.

Sorry about the door reference. Don't know what I was thinking. It's very obvious that your are splitting hairs on the definition of "white". Which Alabaster is classified as a form of.

Looked at the paint chips at Lowe's lately? Do any of them just say "white"? Is "Icy Glacier" white? How about "Cloud Formations"?

You've gotten many to respond to your dilemma here with good incite.

If you haven't already painted, pick a color that the ARC will approve and move on. Be sure to keep your approval letter. No sense in all the homeowner's absorbing attorney's fees paid by the HOA to fight your battle.

You want to fight it then hire your own attorney to fight the denial. Or better yet. Volunteer to be a Board member at the next election and make a change.

HOA life isn't for everyone.

Its ok...I appreciate the feedback. Has nothing to do with the color....my denial says no white paint is approved. But there are whote houses that were approved. They then said my color white isn't approved. The 4-corner law states a jidge can only look at the 4 corners of a document. In my document it says No White paint. However, I have proven there is are whote houses approved. Can't treat one better than another.

Ive proven my case.

Oh dear. And following such wise counsel from CathyA3. C'est la vie.