As a board member, how much do you spend out of your pocket?

Are you self managed?

The short and simple answer is, if we do, we are reimbursed. But, there are controls--

As a property manager, it is our intention board members, and others, will be reimbursed by the Association for approved out of pocket expenses. We do not expect a board member, committee chair, or anyone else should not be reimbursed for approved out of pocket expenditures made on behalf of the Association.

As a PM, we have one-three reimbursement submissions each month in which we have expended funds on behalf of a client. Examples include light bulbs for illuminated address boards, insulated hose bib covers for use in cold weather months, replacement exterior faucet handles, securing a downspout which has come loose from the strap which holds it to the building, etc. All those things one would purchase at a local big-box home improvement store for a few dollars and which would cost $150 or more if a plumber, electrician, or handyperson were called. We charge for the hardware and a minimum hourly labor charge, billed in 15 minute increments. Our contracts stipulate twice monthly client property reviews, we address such matters on a review day so as not to charge round trip mileage.

Over the last three years, we have reimbursed board members or others in our client associations for out of pocket expenditures perhaps five times, most of which were not necessary and could have been paid through the normal invoice process.

My wife and I have both served on the Board of the association in which we reside (not at the same time). As board members, we recall approving one or two reimbursements annually over the last ten years, all of which were related to an Association meeting or sponsored social activity held on association common area, such as National Night Out.

Generally, the governing documents of the properties we manage state out of pocket expenses will be reimbursed. We insist on the following simple rules:

1. Expenditure must be approved in advance, even if only through a telephone call to the Board president or our office. We realize there may be an emergency situation in which we as the PM must make an expenditure without advanced authorization. We have an agreement with our clients we can do so should circumstances warrant. We recently had a board member contract for a plumber for an emergency repair to a common area water supply pipe during the record Texas cold in February. She did so without advance authorization but no one is quibbling as obtaining the services of a plumber that Thursday had worse odds than winning the lottery.

2. Receipts must be submitted--NO exceptions

3. Absolutely no petty cash funds or Association credit/debit cards. We will not manage an association which has either.

Then I assume you do all the accounting and the financials and pay the bills, right.

I can't remember anyone saying that you can't be reimbursed for legitimate HOA expenses.

The issue is that many HOAs and COAs are chronically underfunded, so in practice what happens is that while some expense may be justified, it is lower priority than other things and gets bumped. We also spent money as if we had to justify each expense to the homeowners. So we got creative and hard nosed about non-essentials.

I personally drew the reimbursement line at around $50, give or take. I actually ended up out of pocket many hundreds of dollars during my five years on my current community's board because I simply forgot to turn in the receipts or the amount wasn't worth my time because I had more urgent things on my plate.

Printing out documents for meetings is usually an essential expense. You can probably use electronic versions, but many people read and comprehend better using paper, and you want the board to understand what they're looking at. It's not just a convenience thing, it's helping to get better decision-making. I'd say if you can make a business case for the expense, you're OK.

The first paragraph may be your takeaway from the responses to the couple of topics you posted on this; however, it's not the only advice you've been given.

There is likely verbiage in your docs that authorizes the board to spend money on things that it deems necessary for running the association. As such, your Board is certainly within its rights/power to authorize reimbursement to you for the sorts of expenses you are claiming as necessary.

The important part though is that you have to get your Board to agree that things you plan to do and money you plan to spend are necessary for running the association so that when you spend the money, the Board will subsequently authorize reimbursement to you because the expenses were approved and all were aware ahead of time what the expenses would be.

You don't get to be the one who individually decides that things are necessary to purchase, then go out and purchase them, and then expect the HOA to reimburse you for whatever you spend . . . even if there is a budget for the types of items you are purchasing.

So you have a few options:
1) Do what's needed to convince the rest of your Board that what you are doing is necessary for running the association. Seek their prior approval on your purchases and then seek their approval on having the HOA reimburse you for those purchases. (It works in your favor that you already have a budget for these things, and in the grand scheme, your expenses are trivial compared to what the HOA spends on other stuff. Use that in your argument. Also, it's clear that you want to do a good job for the HOA. In my opinion, I would be completely in agreement with spending a little bit on these things if it would make you happy, more efficient, and more likely to commit your time and effort to successfully running the HOA.)
2) Learn to work with what you already have and do not print things or make business cards. We all have our own way of doing things. Some folks like printed materials and stuff to hold. Personally I detest paperwork and will do everything electronically.
3) Pay for things yourself.

What Bill said. During my 10 years on my HOA board, I was also newsletter editor and had to spend money to get them printed (this was before we started a website), but never had trouble getting reimbursed. That's because I told the board how many copies were being printed (and it was listed on the receipt).

There were four presidents during my tenure and all of them worked with vendors every now and again - without using business cards. It may have been different for us because we also had a property manager, so vendors could always contact the manager who'd pass the information along to the president, and both would update everyone else during board meetings.

If you're choosing to use your own money on HOA business and don't ask for reimbursement, don't complain when it happens. If you can't or refuse to get expenses authorized and present receipts, why complain that you don't get reimbursed? All you really need are some ground rules - start with the protocols Bill suggested, and that should work. And if you have a property manager, let him or her do the job and that can save everyone time (that's what you have a property manager for in the first place)

By "this group" I am referring to the members of HOAtalk, not my own board.

Do the other board members want a printed and bound manager report with bubbles or is that just what you prefer? Because most of my board members just look at a PDF on their ipads or laptops.

If it's simply what you prefer for yourself, I agree that it's a personal expense.

It's what I do to run an efficient meeting. I have sat through the other Presidents who didn't have anything organized and everyone kept digging out their cell phones and trying to look up address on cell phone screens. It was painful and not how I run organized, efficient meetings that make good use of people's time.

I suppose I can run this by the board and if they don't want to pay $7.50 of assocation money for the paper copy of the PM report, they can find a new president who can tell everyone to bring their devices to the meeting and expect people to glue themselves to their devices instead of paying attention to each other.

Around 250-300 homes. We own a lot of community property (5 separate parks!), so we have a lot to deal with above and beyond normal compliance issues. As stated earlier, we rely on our property manager for the few minimum things that we can't handle ourselves, so we as a board have been handling all vendor issues. It requires printing documents, occasional binding of thick documents, and other office expenses to effectively handle the work that we do. Unfortuantely, this group (hoa talk) thinks that I am supposed to pay all of that out of my own pocket instead of getting reimbursed, because there are "better ways of doing things" and I need "get with the times". Sounds a lot like the naysayers in the community who never volunteer but have opinions as to how the board should handle things.

I think you are reading too much into the responses. HOA/COA Bylaws and Declarations do typically have a reimbursement clause for reasonable expenses incurred to satisfy needs of the HOA. I would bet most everyone here would agree you should absolutely be reimbursed for paper and ink, especially if it's adding up to a lot. Never mind wear and tear on one's printer.

The reason I do not like the idea of handing out business cards is because to me, it tends to give a false impression that you alone are calling the shots. But per the law, you are only one director. Maybe the board has delegated certain responsibilities to you, but if so, you are not carrying out those responsibilities because you are "President." You are carrying them out because the Board authorized you to do so.

On the other hand, I think this stuff with the business cards is not worth discussing. If you really feel you need business cards, and if I were on your board, then I would vote for up to $15 for you to purchase said business cards. On the net it appears that this will get you 500 business cards.

I believe every long-time hoatalk member here knows you and the other directors work hard, and for no pay. Five separate parks is a lot to maintain, along with enforcing covenants et cetera. Good luck.

No, actually, he is more than a Director, he is actually the president of the association, which according to many Bylaws state:

The President shall be the Chief Executive Officer of the Association and shall, subject to the control of the Board, have supervision, direction and control of the business and officers of the Association. The President shall preside at all meetings of the Members and at all meetings of the Board. The President shall be, ex-officio, a member of all standing committees, including the executive committee, if any, and shall have the general powers and duties of management usually vested in the office of the President of a California non-profit corporation, and shall have such powers and duties as may be prescribed by the Board or by these Bylaws.

I'll second that.

I do not think anyone here is saying that a President or board member can not be reimbursed. It is that IF you want to be reimbursed it has to be agreed upon by the board that is appropriate. Like the HOA doesn't buy the Secretary a Printer exclusive for HOA work. They can agree to reimburse the Secretary for paper and ink.

Business cards is more of a "helpful" tool to do your job as President. However, it's not a HOA expense that the entire membership should pay for. The job is Volunteer. Volunteering comes with it's own expenses that you just have to suck up.

Taking minutes, preparing agendas, running meetings, preparing budgets, signing checks, contacting vendors, walking the property, communicating with homeowners, responding to complaints, creating newsletters, reviewing the financials... in my market anyway, management companies are doing most or all of that.

Which is really a bad idea, because this industry has high turnover and burnout. That professional manager in whom boards are placing so much trust may have just started two weeks ago, and prior to that had been managing apartments or commercial buildings.

But I suppose if you're the management company, keeping a board entirely dependent on you is a great way to prevent them from firing you.

When the community is under development all tasks are delegated to the management company (with rare exceptions). Developers do not care about the day to day. When the association transitions to homeowner control, board members may or may not take on some of the work. It depends. Do they know the are supposed to? Do they think they even can? Does the manager know what they are and are not supposed to be doing? Are they assertive enough to insist that board officers do their jobs? Do they have a director pressuring them to do whatever it takes to keep the account? Sometimes you have no one willing to serve on the board at all unless you assure them they won't have to do anything.

I remember meeting a new board once and having one of the members say "who makes sure you're doing your job and not stealing from us." When I said "You do." he was stunned. (Same guy also called me up in a rage because I hadn't informed the community that a car wash was being built in a commercial lot adjacent to the community and he also thought it was my job to keep track of new construction in the city.)

In my area, the bigger PM companies offer a menu of services that boards can pick and choose from. My community's by-laws enumerate all of the tasks that the board must perform, and state that some or all of these tasks may be delegated to others.

I think that part of the problem is that the way things are now, PMs are relied on to provide skills that board members lack or to handle things that board members don't have time for. I don't know how we get around it until we change the job requirements of board members which, frankly, will eliminate many homeowners from eligibility.

I'm not surprised PMs burn out - it's a tough and demanding job. Board members burn out too (the good ones, anyway). Not only do they perform many of the same tasks as the PM -- they do them in their spare time, often after working full time at their real jobs, for no pay, with little to no training, and they have to live in the same community as the occasional abusive homeowner who is often limited to nasty phone calls or emails when they contact the PM. And the board gets crucified when they get it wrong (which is too often, unfortunately).

The current setup needs to change, but as long as The People In Control benefit from forcing every possible square foot of residential real estate into community associations, I have no expectation that it will.

...end-of-rant...

Jack,

When I was on my board, we would approve paying for one black ink cartridge per year for those who needed it (typically, the secretary and treasurer).

I probably spend $50 per year on BOD business and I have never asked for reimbursement.

I will pick up light bulbs when the signage lighting burns out (and forget to seek reimbursement).

I've never really added up ink costs because I keep things as digital as possible.

Over the years, I have volunteered for many different organizations. None of which I have had to provide $ to except for maybe gas (animal transport)and time. All of them have recognized my efforts by providing recognition or trinkets.

HOA's are different. They do not thank you. Volunteering for an HOA zaps you 24/7/365 of your energy. While volunteering in an HOA may help to preserve your own property values, it is a thankless job. HOA's don't even provide a T-shirt unless it's approved.

Our MC just can't get info out to the owner's on a personal basis like the Board can. A request to purchase a hose to water community flowers is unknown to them. One year the Board sent out the notices for the annual meeting just to make it happen or cancel the meeting. We shortly fired them and moved on.

If it costs 1% of our yearly budget to provide volunteers with printer ink, paper, stamps, extra grass seed, hoses to water community property, plants to enhance the community property, we make it happen. The the Board has a debit petty cash account to cover those expenses. The debit card is limited and expenses are reviewed by the Board.

As the Board President for over 6 years, I have had many expenses,that I don't turn in. A notary here, a purchase there. I once put $3,000 worth of outside step railings on my credit card to reduce the HOA's liability after a retaining wall job just to get it done. Going through the MC could have taken weeks!

Every HOA needs to look their own circumstances. As President, I have project managed the replacement of 20 roofs at a cost of over $190,000 without MC involvement. MC would have charged 10% to manage. We have spent over $200,000 on new building railings without MC involvement, again saving 10% in MC fees.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that if you get the right people on the Board, either through election or appointment, they will get the job done and can even save the HOA thousands of dollars in the process.

Many bylaws may state this but is it is the norm? Most of what I've read for best practices of an HOA state that the president presides over meetings and acts as the spokesperson. Otherwise, she or he is just another director with no more authority than any other director.

I get reimbursed for everything but gas and printers.

We are self managed. I am president and property manager. Do you realize how much printing goes into a new buyers package? It weighs over a pound and they must receive it before closing so the sellers, if thy still have it, can't be used.

Everyone gets monthly statements. Every dollar spent that month is listed.

Budget time is lots of paper. Annual meeting is lots of paper. Meeting notices and agenda is lots of paper.

Postage is a major expense. Some things must be sent certified by law. The postage for annual meeting is expensive. The stamped return envelopes add up. Electronic voting has only been legal here for a few years and has only been used about 4 times and never twice by the same owner.

Many emails must be copied. All estimates must be copied for board members. The newsletter takes a fair amount of paper.

So how much ink do you think I use?

I don't have business cards but have been asked for them by vendors and contractors.

I do an average of 15 escrow packages per month and the total paper and ink has been zero over the past 6 years.