HOA and Military Member

I am the Military Member

I am away on military leave and the HOA wants to break into my place and leave it unsecured to install a water meter. Obviously, legal services on post are unhelpful meaning that there is a huge wait list. They basically want us to start paying for water. I return home two weeks after the planned date of install. I really do not want them to break into my home, have strangers there, and leave my place unsecured while I am away. In addition, to fining me everyday for them breaking into my place and having it unsecured.

No, this was not a long time coming, they voted in April and started the installing meter in May. I was gone at the time as well. What direction can I go. I do plan on writing a letter explaining I am away on active-duty orders and that I will be returning 15 days after the install date. I am trying to read up on the SCRA but I don’t think that applies to me.

As I am reading up on the CC&R’s this is what I have found:

5.32 Vacating Unit; Costs. [Civ. Code § 4775] The Association shall have the power to temporarily remove any Condominium resident for such periods and at such times as may be necessary in connection with any maintenance or repair work performed by the Association, including without limitation tenting for termites and utility repair and/or installation. The Owner shall provide the Association access as needed for maintenance or repair work by the Association. The costs of any temporary relocation, including loss of rental income and costs of temporary housing and living costs, during such maintenance or repair work shall be paid by the Condominium Owner affected unless another Owner is responsible for the damages. If another Owner is responsible for the damages, the responsible Owner shall pay the relocation costs. Except in case of emergency, the Association shall give notice of the need to temporarily vacate a Condominium to the Owners and occupants not less than fifteen (15) days or more than thirty (30) days prior to the date of the temporary relocation. The notice shall state the reason for the relocation, the date and time of the beginning of work, the anticipated date and time of termination of work and that the occupants will be responsible for all necessary accommodations during the relocation.

6.5 Failure to Maintain. If an Owner fails to maintain the areas described herein pursuant to the standards set by the Board, the Board may notify the Owner of the work required and request that the same be done within thirty (30) days from the giving of such notice. If the Owner fails to complete maintenance within said time period, the Board may, following a Notice and Hearing, cause such work to be done and the cost thereof shall immediately be paid by such Owner to the Association and until paid shall bear interest at the rate of twelve percent (12%) per annum or the maximum rate authorized by Applicable Law. The Association shall have an easement over the Units and Exclusive Use Common Area for the purpose of performing the work described herein.

Tom, are you on Leave, which is more or less approved absence from duty for some period of time virtually identical to vacation in the civilian world or are you deployed or otherwise serving away from your permanent duty station under orders assigning you to another duty station for a temporary period which were known as TDY orders in my day in the military?

My military service was many years ago however, when on Leave I was free to travel where and when I wished (with some exceptions given the Vietnam War was in progress). That being the case, if you are on Leave, there is no reason why you cannot return to your home to oversee installation of the water meter.

If you are Deployed (using the present day term) or otherwise away from home on duty orders (not Leave, which may also be documented under orders in some circumstances) then I recommend you seek emergency advice from the JAG or whatever the legal officers are called in your branch of the military.

If you are on Leave, I suggest you consider contacting a local attorney or even a local branch of a veterans organization such as the American Legion or VFW for a referral or assistance.

Do you have a neighbor or friend who can oversee the water meter installation in your absence?

And, no, I agree with you, if you are on leave I do not believe the SRCA (FKA SSRA) applies in your case.

Sorry, I am currently activated on military orders and away from my home. I am so used to saying military leave when the Army decides they want to ship me 3,000 miles away from home. I did leave a message with legal services. I hope they get back with me.

Having a sub-meter in place make the payment of water by unit owner more equitable. Under the current plan, a family of six will pay the same as a single person.

Water meters have to be placed on the outside so the meter is accessible and can be read. If any work must be done inside, it can wait until you return.

Because Melissa couldn't say it, THANK YOU FOR YOU SERVICE!

I would have made arrangements, because he serves my country, no ifs, ands or buts.

Bill,

I apologize for the confusion, I work both on the civilian and uniform side of the government. As a civilian I am classified as being on military leave. That is how they put it on your SF-50 and account for pay and what leave you can use. There are 3 types of leave one can use, Sick, Annual, and Military leave. I am an Army reservist and been on orders for the past two months. I am 3,000 miles away from home. I am not annual training. I hope that clears up some of the confusion.

I just so happen to receive a threatening phone call today about my place being one of the nine units that have not had the meter installed yet. I have not reached out to my command yet and there is no one I can reach here at the schoolhouse. Taking leave is not authorized especially during the duty week. That would be cause for removal from the class.

I am not sure why they want or need to install it inside of my garage I am guessing they want to replace the shut off valve as well. They would still have the cut off the water from the main valve as well at that point they could just install it on the other side of the wall. There is no one above or below me, they are more like townhomes as in we share a wall. There are 4 units to my one building and there are many buildings on the property.
To enter my home they would have to cause damage. They would either have to force open the garage door or kick in the pedestrian door. The door is locked to the frame. Plus they would somehow have to move my cars.

Of course you still need to see what California may say about this, but in general a condo association has the right to enter a unit when the owner is absent to perform necessary maintenance.

You can argue about whether or not this particular maintenance task is "necessary" or if it could wait. If the new sub-metering system won't work if one or more units is offline, then I think that may be considered necessary.

In addition, many condo associations have rules or even provisions in the CC&Rs stating that an owner who is absent for more than a few days needs to leave contact info of another person who would be able to provide access to the unit. It doesn't matter why the owner is absent. It is in the owner's best interest to do this - if there were a true emergency like a fire, the fire department will simply break down your door to get in and they won't pay for damages.

Condos, especially ones in large buildings with many units, are different from HOAs - and the owners have more responsibilities toward their neighbors than would be the case in a single family home community since what happens inside directly affects condo neighbors.

Find somebody you trust who can provide access when necessary. It's smart and it may even be required.

One reason it does not apply is because the SCRA only protects service members from being sued. You are not being sued.

From TomP11's COA's CC&Rs:
TomP11, do you understand that the above is part of a contract which is binding on each unit owner? Do you understand that, by refusing to give the Association access, you are violating the contract? Do you understand that military enlisted and officers still may be bound by a contract, with consequences the same as if you were a full-time civilian?

And I hope you do not. Speaking as a former officer in the reserves, if I were the CO, I would be asking anyone in your shoes why he/she is trying to shirk off his/her personal, non-military related responsibilities on the taxpayer.

Maybe not your smell test, but it appears proper notice was given pursuant to the covenants.
I would like to hear what the COA says to this. Right now, I think the COA should take the strong and hard position.

I kind of doubt the COA will carry through with its threat to break in and leave the door open. I think this is a bluff to try to get cooperation.

I would support the COA billing soldier/sailor/officer TomP11 extra for any delays he causes but he refuses to agree he has a contractual obligation here.

I do not see any lack of planning on the COA's part. I do see a lack of planning on TomP11's part. It was on TomP11 to provide an alternative means of access while he is away, pursuant to the covenants' requirement. It's foolish of him not to have done so, and I think you know this, BillH10.

CathyA3,

Thank you for your response. It is an HOA and not a COA. We do not have a management office just a property management company that collects dues and sits in on HOA meetings to make sure they are following the rules.

There are no rules even provisions in the CC&Rs stating that an owner who is absent for more than a few days needs to leave contact info of another person who would be able to provide access to the unit. They do send out a contact information sheet that we are asked to fill out every year, but it is not required. We also have the address book on the website. I do inform the HOA when I am away on leave and provide them with a forwarding address.

It is frustrating getting a phone call from their contractor and not the HOA that they are going to kick in my door. Especially when I called them in May asking when they will start on my building and trying to arrange a time have someone there.

AugustinD,

They will not start charging us until January due how the wording is on dues package they send us every year. It clearly says that it covers water, trash, and sewage.

We do not have a manager’s office. Our property management company is not located in our city. Before I moved in, I made sure that I did not have to provide a key and that the HOA cannot enter anytime they want to. That was one of the few things I requested when selecting a home.

I am not trying to be difficult. I actually called the property management company when I first heard about their plans in May. They gave me a phone number to the contactor so I can arrange a time so someone could be there. My response from the contractor was we don’t know. I am more frustrated that I got a phone call claiming that they are going to force their way in and fine me $25 a day because my door would no longer be secure.

So because you did NOT leave the COA a key they are being forced entry into your condo. That kind of makes sense. Sorry to sound "mean" but by not providing the key you set yourself up for this scenerio. Which by providing the key would have avoided. Plus is the reason they need to have a copy of a key for emergency or maintenance items such as this.

Thanks for serving our country but it really doesn't have any bearing on the HOA needing to enter your property or not. You did not provide a way of entry. This is the price.

Actually in 2013, I owned a sub metering company, so your comment is false! You would have no way to read the meter if located inside.

Mr. MaxB4, many sub-metering companies today install sub-meters that use wireless technology to read meters. Indeed, even many cities today have installed wireless systems to read meters.

MelissaP1,

I cannot leave a key for the HOA. They do not accept keys probably for liability issues and there is no management office. I did request a date where I could have someone there but they ignored that request.

I appreciate your service, it since you're in the military, you had to know that a time may come when something in your home may need service that can't wait - what would you do in that situation? Same thing applies here.

Why not talk to the property manager again and see if they can work with your friend's schedule - there's more than one date on The calendar, you know. It's also possible your suggestion didn't work because the installers may have a scheduling conflict.

I know this is difficult being far away, but all of you will have to be flexible. Don't you have more than one friend or a relative who might be able to assist you?

Ya think?

And yet a fortune is typically saved in water bills.

Installing sub-metering is fairly big business, with design modifications typically required well documented. I lived in a COA/HOA where sub-metering was considered for many months, reviewing pitches and literature from many vendors. Plus ya know I am walking around with all this engineering professional licensing in my back pocket. Granted one does not have to be an engineer to hunker down, study, and then talk intelligently about the implications of sub-metering a COA/HOA.

CathyA3,

I don’t know if it is an HOA or COA. All the documents list it as a Homeowners Association. Sorry if I am confusing everyone. They had to go to court to change the CC&Rs back in 2020. We are responsible for things such as the roof, sidings, staircase and landings, painting, basically anything that isn’t a common area like the pool and landscaping.

You and I disagree.

-- Possible related aside: California's statute for common interest communities applies to both condos and non-condos.

-- Unfortunately (due to the confusion) many condominium communities use the phrase "homeowners' association" in their legal corporate name. Then their Articles of Inc and Declaration clarify whether the association is subject to the state's condo act or hoa act or whatever statute.

For the OP, I am at a loss for words that your property manager needs inside the unit access to install this meter. Typically they are installed outside and require little to no maintenance. I would suggest one of two things, send the PM a letter certified mail with return receipt explicitly forbidding access to your unit and respectfully request that the installation be postponed until you return.
I find it highly unlikely that the contractor hired to complete this installation can complete this in a few days. Im going to guess it is going to take about two weeks at best. I believe this is a more than reasonable approach and such a reasonable request that any property manager with an ounce of decency should schedule your installation last.

BTW Max.
I lived in a Mobile home park that switched to remote read sub-meters. They are the greatest thing since sliced bread. After a few years of paying for my share of water and all the water wasters in the community, sub-meters saved me about $30.00 per month in lot rent, and that was after the cost of metered water was added back to my lot rent bill.

How are these meters powered? rechargeable battery? does the battery recharge when water passes through a tiny impeller attached to a dc motor that float charges the battery. Because in the three years I was there following the installation, I never seen any maintenance on them.

It really doesn't matter what you call yourselves, as one good California did was have just one set of rules for condos, pud's and HOA. Our legal description was condo, but we were single family detached homes sitting on one 81.7 acre lot. Instead of dividing us into individual lots, we were divided into units. Because of that, mortgage companies had fits because they were looking for a master policy covering each unit, which we didn't have.

You guys did vote to approve the loan, right?

SheliaH,

Thank you. They are not entering my living space; they are entering the garage. My HOA does not provide any maintenance service for inside the condo. We do not have a fire system and there is no one above or below my unit. I am trying to paint a picture, basically if you drive by you would think it is a two story condo that shares a wall. The two car garage in in front and connect one level up is the living space. There is nothing above the garage. If a pipe leaks that is my responsibility, the HOA would not come in and fix it. If the main water line was to leak, which it has, it is on me to fix it.

I did contact the property management company back in May when they sent the emails saying that they will start the project sometime during May and ending in June. The property management company gave me the contact information for the contractor. I contacted the contractor explaining the situation when they would get to my condo. They could not give me an answer because they didn’t know how long it was going to take or the order of buildings. What is upsetting is the phone call and email I received from the contractor saying that they are going to break into my garage and fine me for doing so. I contacted the property management company and they basically said oh well.

For me is more like I am paying to live here at $500 for HOA dues a month. You are a contractor and the property manager and that is how you are going to treat the owners of the place. I have a temporary code for the garage door and a camera in the garage.

More details. They want the sub-meter installed next to the hot water heater. Maybe so they do not have to search for it. Mine is located inside the garage probably for looks. I am on an end unit. The two neighbors two neighbors who are in between the end unites have their hot water heaters on the outside on their deck. The owners who live in the two story buildings have it behind their garage. I just don’t understand why can’t just install the meters on the other side of the garage where all the utilities enter the unit and where we have the A/C. If it is for looks.

A further thought... presumably the OP's association thinks installing sub-meters is money well spent, which suggests that they will save money in the long run. Reduced usage? Subsidies from the state to install them since California is in a drought? Subsidies from the companies doing the work? Some or all of these?

We actually looked into installing sub-meters in my community, and it was pretty pricey. However, if the cost of water hereabouts were to shoot up and installing sub-meters would allow us to move water out of our monthly assessments and directly to owners or at least reduce costs overall, we'd do it in a heartbeat.