property management

Don't you think the Board needs to sit down with the management company; discuss the terms of the contract; and possibly seek a modification to the contract?

According to you this has been going on for a few years and yet you still keep using them. What did you expect?

Hi

I have been pushing to get rid of them for years

what is the recourse for these spontaneous and expensive fees?

What do you mean by recourse? You want your money back? You want them to stop charging them?

Your board has a contract with this company. Read it.

Nobody on the internet can solve your problem for you.

I think the board should have a serious talk with the PM, state that they will pay only for services charged in accordance with the contract, and then do it. And fer Pete's sake look for a new PM. People can only take advantage of you if you allow it. If I were a homeowner in this situation, I'd want to see both the PM and the board gone.

We had a similar situation in my association, and we ran out the term of the contract and then kicked 'em to the curb. I don't recommend trying to terminating for cause unless it's something really egregious - they'll simply tie you up in court until the contract term ends, so may as well save the legal dollars.

I haven't seen anything the OP has stated that fees for "project management" weren't in the contract, only that now they are charging them. A lot of things have changed with the pandemic. I went to dinner last night with my wife and daughter. The price of food had remained pretty much the same, but the margaritas have doubled in price, actually more than the food itself.

obviously not

If I were not on the board, how would I know these inside details?

I am so baffled by this. If the board, which I now know includes you, doesn't have what it takes to the manage the existing PM or get a new one what do you expect people to tell you? How can we possibly solve your problem? You know exactly what the problem is and have for years. I am simply amazed by how many people who post here don't grasp the concept that the PM works for the HOA and it is the board that is responsible for managing them. In situations like this the problem is clearly not the PM. They are simply the byproduct of an ineffective board that made a conscious decision to bury their heads in the sand and do nothing.

I agree that many think the PM "owns the association" and we should do as they say. The BOD works for the association via the BOD. I especially see this if the MC is the same one that was used before turnover to the owners. If the BOD or association is not happy with the MC, then kick their ass to the curb and find a new one.

Have you READ the contract? That's where you should start - it may be there's language that allows the property manager to charge extra fees for certain services.

By the way, "expensive" is relative - what's expensive to you may be reasonable to someone else, especially if the board is asking the property manager to do a lot of extra work. You don't get champagne services for beer money, so once you have a handle on the fees, the board can decide what's really necessary and what could be dropped (that's called renegotiating the contract).

If you can't make a deal, the board will have to do the work in finding another property manager, and that will take time and effort. You'll have to prepare a request for proposal, get bids (at least three) and if you find someone you like, you'll have to talk to the current property manager about a transition plan so the transfer from company 1 to company 2 is as seamless as possible. Usually, people balk when they see how much work is involved, but if you're going to do this, doing it right is mandatory.

The CAI website has a book on selecting and working with property managers - if you're on the board, you may want to purchase a copy (or see if it's in your local library) and read it to get some ideas on best practices. And take a look at old conversations on this website to see how other associations handled this so you'll know what to do (or not) Don't respond to the old conversations - if you have questions, start a new one. And pay attention to Max, Bill, Barbara, and other posters who are also property managers. You may not agree with everything they say, but at least you'll get some insight as to how they work and keep your expectations in check.

TV

Our client contracts stipulate the following activities may result in additional hourly charges:

1. Certain clerical services, project management services, non-legal complex research and document drafting, complex research and document drafting for attorney review and filing as required. The foregoing require negotiations with the Board in advance of incurring billable hours.

There are other billed expense scenarios involving collections activities and mileage reimbursement but you expressed concern about project management services. We expect to be on the property of a client at least twice monthly, which includes 1-2 hours of time while there to meet contractors, owners, etc. We are flexible on the 1-2 hours, we do not set a stopwatch.

However, we make it clear to the client if their desire is we be on the property for hours on end while vendor work is taking place, we expect to be reimbursed for our time.

I suggest your Board first understand the contract services received under the base monthly contract rate and then establish ground rules with the management company regarding incurring charges over and above the monthly base contract rate.

2. Following a discussion on another forum regarding management company incremental expense charges, we reviewed our contracts and price schedules. We found the time and effort to keep track of how many stamps, envelopes, copies, file folders and the like were used each month was not justified in light of the amounts being charged. We made the unilateral decision to simply furnish those items under the basic monthly rate for the client. However, we specialize in small condominium clients with fewer than 25 units, it was silly to bill for three copies, 2 envelopes, and 2 stamps for ordinary business operations (not collections or annual/special association meetings).

If we were managing a 250 home HOA, our decision may have been different. Or, maybe not depending on how the analysis turned out.

Better yet, SELF MANAGE!

What about NpS's suggestions, TV? Or Kelly's? Or Bill's?

Barbara, you and some of the other posters here are truly better people than me for answering cryptic posts like this. TV can only manage to mumble a response with the minimum words possible and has no interest in providing a detailed intelligent response such as what the current PM's contract says and what duties they are contractually responsible to provide as part of the base contract. Without this information everyone here is pissing in the wind when it comes to providing any meaningful help since we are unable to assess what the real situation is.

Thanks and I will now use my 'godlike' abilities to get you to answer questions. Now speak my child. What does the contract say?

As everyone and their sister can see:
No board authorization = the HOA owes nothing for these services

You too!

If the contract says x,y,z services cost extra and the board says “hey manager we need you to do x,y,z” they have given their approval.

Are you for real?

We are not your fellow board members. We can’t bring about whatever resolution you want. Go tell it to the rest of your board if you think you have all the answers.

In my mind, you don’t want to solve problems, you just want to complain.

And this genius observation is based on exactly WHAT?

I have been a Board member and president, have been a PM, and for the past seven years, have owned a management company.

you're also a genius