ok , i need a lawyer

i know there are due process requirements before a board can assess an owner for fines or damages.

If these processes aren't followed. If my account is assessed a balance because of a false claim that i was given no opportunity to respond to.

If i respond with a letter that outlines that the due process wasn';t followed. Its just a sh** show.

actually, I need a referral to an attorney in houston. HOA ..

Im not trying to sue anyone. I do however want to make sure that my rights are protected

Do I fall down the Laska hole? 1st off Fines and damages are 2 different things. Fines are PUNITIVE or Corrective actions. Fines are NOT income for the HOA. Most states do not allow for fines to be the basis of liens or foreclosures. However, EACH STATE is different as each HOA. Accounting practices CAN make fines appear as "unpaid dues" by applying dues paid toward the fines. Plus on top of all of that the HOA has to have the RIGHT to fine.

Damages are something that caused actual damage to the HOA. These range from monetary to property. Damages can be if the HOA had to consult an attorney to respond to your inquiries or threats. It also can be NOT correcting a violation and the HOA does it. Example: They tell you to paint your house and you do not. The HOA can paint the house and send you the bill. The HOA can claim that as "damages".

There is also a meeting to discuss fines or damages prior to being charged. It should not be a "surprise".

Mellissa. I was informed that the board that during executove session. The acting property manager submitted to the board accusatuons that i caused damages to the landscape. These accusations were untrue. The board dod not ask for proof or evidence of any damages. They kust accepted what the propert manager claimed. They voted to assess me a sum fordamages that disnt occur and dont exist.

I was given no notification and have not been give. The opportunity to request a hearing to respond.

If proper procedure isnt followed which includes notice and a right to da hearing by a neutral party, what do i need to do to insost the charge is removed from my account. The board voted withoit asking ay questions or bothering to investigate the claims.

This is pure and simple a game to tproperty manager. The board has become a kangaroo court. The few board members that mention the requirement for dur process and notofication and overruled.

I

-- Do either your condo's covenants or rules and regs require notice and a hearing?

-- Even though your condo is under Chapter 81, I believe that a court would say that, at a minimum, the condo must give you notice and a hearing (which are among the most basic due process rights). Texas courts may have already said this for corporations, but it's a lot for me to look up right now.

-- If you answer my questions above, I might be able to help further.

Augustine, there is not specific language regarding notification or hearing requirements in our declaration or rules and regulations regarding assessment for damages to common property.

however. texas property code 209 clearly defines the requirements and due process before fines and assessments..

http://www.trailwoodvillage.org/info.php?pnum=20&preview=1

that linke provides a good summary of 209.

I don't know if 209 applies to condominium associations though..

tuca.82. does give due process rights. but we are under 81.

thanks bill,, will do.. thanks for the clarification.

I looked at the CAI website, the attorneys on that website represent hoa.s.

there has to be some protection for a condo owner that has become the target of an unscrupulous board. Voting them out is not an option when only a small number of owners are targets.

the other owners are completely oblivious to what is going on. over half the owners don't even live here anymore.

Like BillH10 indicated (and I double checked), Chapter 209 does not apply to condominiums.

The fact that your condo's governing docs say nothing about notice or hearing does not matter. As I stated above, I expect a judge, facing a competent attorney representing you, would rule that you were owed notice and a hearing, based on case law.

AUGUSTINE,,I LOVE YOU. THANK YOU

Augustine,

I know i'm in the right here. my question is this.

the property manager(board member who is at the root this campagne agianst me)

here is what happened. I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row.

the property manager board member falsely accused me of damaging a thousand dollars worth of plants.

This is a complete mischaracterization and outright lie.
i am attaching pictures for you to see.

At the board meeting. The property manager called special session, without notifying me (owner) of what was to be discussed.

I was told by a sympathetic board member that jb told the board that i damaged and destroyed common area. He had no proof , no pictures. because it didn't happen.
Jay fabricated costs for the plants that weren't damaged and the board agreed to charge my account.

I was not notified, nor was the announcement of the action taken during the executive session announced once the board came out of executive session(as required)

My question is,Do i even bring up the executive session stuff.?? .. What recourse do I have against JB for this continued harassment . I know the fines will be removed. What I want to ensure is that owners can be harassed like this in the future. If the board is giong to ignore the due process requirements and the accounting company is going to allow it to happen. This is maliscious intent on JB part. and willful ignorance on the rest of the board members who voted to assess my account 770 without independent investigation of whether it was true or not.

I received a letter today stating the following.

We are hereby requesting payment in the amount of $770 now being charged to the account for the removal and destruction of plants,shrubs and damage to the sprinkler pipe.

If you continue such activities, additional charges will be levied to the account and may be turned over to an attorney for further action. This action could result in a suite being filed in a court of Law. You will be liable for payment of all assessmentments. legal fees and court costs incurred should legal action become necessary. Pleat note that attorney fees and court costs incurred are seldom less than 1000 if continued pursuit is necessary, those fees could be a great deal more.

Truly Yours

JB..

augustine,, what i did do. was move plants that i purchased two years ago for the common areas, because the board still had not done any restoration of the common ground after harvey.
What i did do was progate some coleus plants to make babies and then planted them in this small area in an effort to have some beauty until the board properly addressed the need for proper professional landscaping and drainage correction.

I am well aware that the rules say that owners are not to plant plants without board approval, the board may remove them. However, when the board fails to properly address the landscaping at all for 3 years. When I finally was disgusted and spent my own money to do some kind of improvement. JB false distorted what occured and claimed damage when there was none. You can't damage dirt!

If the board willfully ignores the statute and does not remove the charge on my account. If I go to court to get it removed. Will I also be entitled to my legal expenses. Can I go to small claims court to have it removed? so basicly asking for an injunction for removal

Any time you sue your HOA your suing yourself and your neighbors. That is a FACT. So yes you may have to eat your legal expense. You may even have to eat the HOA's legal expenses if the court does not believe your case has merit. It is the court that can/will decide who pays legal expenses. Plus your ONLY entitled to the amount your out. Which is to make you "whole". You can't say the HOA is making you pay "1000 dollars" and sue for 5000. It does not work that way. Your only entitled at most your legal expenses and the 1000 dollars.

So making the court have the HOA reimburse you any money you have to PROVE you paid out the money and deserve it back. It can't just be a "bill" you refuse to pay. You have to prove damages. Which would be paying money you did not have to pay out. Otherwise, it's just a bill.

melissa

I think you must have missed the context.

I was notified that my account was assessed $$$$ for damages to the common areas of the property.

However, there is no damage, there was never any damage, this is completely fabricated by JB, in retaliation for my refusal to follow his orders if they are not within his authority to order.

as augustine stated.. the Tuca,, sections relevant to the ability of the hoa to assess an owner for damages or fines requires specific due process steps.

None of those steps were followed. Which of course. makes sense, since there was no damage. and If i had been given a notice and then a right to present my defense before the board would have been easily proven with dated photos and witness statements that refute what JB is claiming.

I would disregard the advice Melissa or whatever her name is gives.

LaskaS,

-- Sorry; before I posted earlier today, I missed your post that included the above statements.

-- In your communications with the COA Board, I think the only thing on which you should focus is the assessment for the alleged damage. Forget about the executive session violations. Forget about the annual meeting violations. Focus only on the improper assessment.

-- Respectfully, I disagree with rationalizing when one breaks a rule or covenant. Particularly when a HOA/COA member is on a board's radar, the HOA/COA should strive to follow all rules and covenants. Else one's (your) troubles are likely to escalate. I sense you are on this board's radar. You likely are in the right on many important issues. But I think what you are missing is that, for most-to-all-issues, you do not have the power to make significant change. All that stuff about right and wrong with which many people were raised: It's not the real world. Right and wrong has a huge role in one's personal world of family, very close neighbors, short interactions with strangers, and maybe interactions in, say, retail America (grocery stores and such). I think the real world is quite crooked. Justice is not all that common. People cheat and lie a lot.

-- I am observing two individuals, one where I live and another who is long distance, in significant legal disputes with their HOAs/COAs. For years now these two have been engaged in lawsuits. They may be in the right, but at what cost? I do not support spending one's life principally engaged in disputes with a HOA/COA. I think both these acquaintances of mine are not realizing that they are up against a corporation with a lot more resources. The corporations are fine letting disputes drag on in courts for years. The HOA/COA members who are parties in the lawsuit are not. I think these two acquaintances of mine will not enjoy a victory, even if the court finds in their favor. Why? Because they have given years of their lives, and a lot of money, to scheming how to be vindicated. Except in the movies, I think vindication is rare.



-- I think I'd send it to the board and cc the condo attorney.

-- I want to encourage you not to seek (1) revenge per se; (2) another's humiliation per se; (3) harassment per se of another; or (4) increasing your adversary's attorney fees without a good reason. In my experience, a mindset of revenge is harmful to one's self. I think it also exhausts a lot of innocent bystanders and turns people off. The facts of the Board denying you a hearing speak loudly all by themselves. Don't clutter up the message with, for one, your ego.

-- From afar, one stranger to another, I am concerned this condo stuff is taking over your life. You have a sh-tty board and probably a jerk (or worse) for a manager. And I think such boards and managers are pretty common. You have suffered through the effects of a hurricane and serious damage. Are you enjoying the richness of life?

-- I am amending the letter I proposed to you as follows: Delete the sentence at the end that says "If you fail to remove this charge within 10 business days, I will have no choice but to take legal action." The latter is a little too provocative yada. Send the letter without this sentence, and see what the Board does.

CathyA3, your observations make sense and are wise, afaic.

My only concern is that I am seeing some HOAs/COAs imposing fines with impunity. They ignore statutory and covenant obligations alike for notice and a hearing. Fines are made up numbers. Folks are paying, just because these folks know the cost of fighting the fine exceeds the value of their time and sanity. Who can afford an attorney, even if the fine is as high as $2000? Hiring an attorney will likely cost at least as much as the fine.

I think calling this thuggery in some cases is appropriate. Some hero or saint maybe will say no and fight the good fight over a few years. (As I have mentioned in the recent past, I am watching a federal government agency as we speak develop what I hope is a position of, "Nope. Nooooo. Keep doing this, and your HOA will pay mightily, HOA Board. You really need to get some second opinions from other attorneys, specialized in this law... " Signs continue to be good for same. I continue to think it's just going to be many more months before this dispute concludes.)

Still, you advised DennisG7 in the other thread to weigh paying the amount the HOA claims he owes (for alleged back assessments) against fighting the alleged debt. I think there is a lot to be said for just paying the amount the HOA claims one owes. And then moving.

Laska

Did you not do some plantings without asking for permission?
Yes or No only. No explanations.

Did the BOD have to pay to get those illegal plantings removed?
Yes or No only. No explanations.

the question on the first is.
1. yes
with the caveat, that, I received a letter after the fact telling me that the association employes landscapers and doesn't allow owners to do the work and tells me to not do it anymore.
once i received that letter, I didn't plant anything else.

2. the board has not removed any of the plantings I have done. I'm attaching pictures to the area in a question.

this is purely a vindictive attempt by the property manager to "show me".. it's not going to hold up to any scrutiny.

please see the attached pictures.. the area in question..

top photo was the condition of the common area and is not in keeping with the requirements for upkeep and maintenance by the association.
Several requests for maintenance and restoration of the common area landscaping has been submitted to the board.

the bottom picture is what it looks like today,,,

Wait did YOU make the changes and add the additional plantings? Hate to say it but if you did, the HOA may have the right to do it. Makes no sense to you I am sure. However, if this is common area you as an individual can't take action without the Board's permission/knowledge.

You don't know if the area was that way for a reason. Like let's say the lawncare keeps cutting down the ground cover. The board got tired of them doing it and don't want ground cover/plants there. What if there was a planned maintenance project for that area? What if they were wanting to remove those trees? Plus you added a liability to them by doing your own landscaping. It's one thing to "garden" your yard. It is another to "garden" someone else's.

Let me be clear. i now realize that there is in fact a rule against planting plants without prior approval.

I was not aware of it before.

I did not seek reimbursement for the money i spent .

If the association is responsible for maintenance and upkeep and they have continued to fail to do so, despite 2 years of documented requests for action.

And an owner finally attempts to make some contribution to the common areas.. which is a NET POSITIVE.

Once i received the letter of the actual rule. I didn't do anything else.

Mellisa, you are correct, the area could have been that way for a reason,, Luckily, i know there was not valid reason . Other than JB failing to prioritize upkeep and maintenance of the common grounds of the association.

The upkeep and maintenance of the common areas is a legal obligation according to the declaration.

If the board is going to take action against an owner, there are requirements that must be followed. THESE WERE NOT FOLLOWED. end of story.

I'm not trying to justify what I did. I now realize there is a written rule against it. However, a board must be reasonable and fair in their enforcement of the community guidelines. Taking action against me, without any proof of actual damage, without giving me notice of the potential damage assesssment that the board was considering adding to my account, without giving me notice that I have a right to appeal and present informatin in front of the board. ALL OF THOSE THINGS INVALIDATE the charges assessed to my account.

If the board wants to start over. they can. but part and parcel to the process is actual inquiry into whether what JB is claiming as damage is actually true.

But, see, Laska, it doesn't matter that the area "shoulda" been handled. You broke a tule or covenant. You certainly can get fined for that and also for whatever it const your HOA to removed the plants you put in. I agree that the Board's use of the language of "damage" is overkill.

An owner here had on the agenda Tuesday night that we accept his donation of some new accent pillows for a sofa & settee & 5 seat cushions to place on 20 y.o. furniture in one of our lounges (party room). It's very drab and dreary. The board wants to spend no money of decor since we'll be rehabbing it in about year. So the owner wanted to donate.

The board majority voted no with the reason that with this precedent, too many of the owners might want to donate various items and we'll have to decide each offer to avoid things looking worse. If he had donated without asking and we knew who it was, we'd probably just have removed the items. I don't think we'd have called him to hearing and fined him ($50) for placing items in the common area without permission.

But, your Board has even so far, the you were a director, as banning you form even visiting the PM's office. Clearly, they're trying to rein you in. I suspect that's why the penalty seems so stiff.

I would have written, "The Fair Housing Act is not the problem. It is the solution to certain types of discrimination in housing."

No federal agencies. It appears you saw some proposals by members of the Texas legislature, as reported at https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/303985/view/topic/Default.aspx. I doubt these will go anywhere.

I like what Arizona has in place, with the Az Department of Real Estate overseeing adjudication of many disputes between HOA/COA members and boards. The Department reports, in summary form, the outcome.

Florida turns out some wild-a-- stories of HOA/COA dispute arbitration via its own state agency. (Where is GenoS?) Like the arbitrators don't know much. Worse, it seems Florida HOA/COA arbitrator decisions are being held out as precedent?

You know I read a lot of case law. There is a logic to it. The appeals courts really do try to make decisions that are consistent. Hence I profane many of the reports GenoS has made about arbitration decisions in Florida.

I remain with you regarding the HOA's statutory due process obligations. I expect the reputable hoatalk veterans agree you were owed notice and a hearing.

I hope you keep in mind CathyA3's counsel. You have thugs on your board and for a manager. And they have a lot of money they can use on hired guns (attorneys) to attack you.

ben,, augustine wasn't saying 209 was applying to condos.

he was saying the portions of tuca texas uniform condominium act 82 that deals with due process

also applies to texas condominiums governed by act 81.

Augustine,

Can I ask, are you an attorney or were you ever an attorney? or do you just like reading case law.

I enjoy reading case law too. Obviously for the last 3years i've been reading mostly about hoa lawsuits and contractor fraud and what remedies are available or not.