Banning people from Amenities

Yesterday we had a false start. The property manager did not communicate well with the pool cleaner, and the cleaner opened the pool. Because of Covid, our pool was last used in October of 2019.

Pent up demand and literately all hell broke loose. A person from a household that is "no stranger" to the community was drinking at the pool and began making unwanted passes at a sub-minor. An argument ensued and the Lord only knows what happened after. Try as I might, I do not see anything in our governing documents that says we can or cannot ban someone from the amenities, There is only a clause that says we cannot deny access to anyones lot. My two fellow board members are 100% completely on board with issuing a lifetime ban to all amenities to the homeowner and their guest.

I get crickets from the property manager.

What can I do, what verbiage could be in our governing documents to support a permanent ban?

Drinking alcohol at the pool may violate other rules as well, so if it's not in your list of things that can get a person removed from the premises, it should be added. Ditto using glass containers. Your insurer may have something helpful to say about this stuff.

I second the comment about the parents of the minor calling the police, but they need to be sure they have some supporting evidence - otherwise Mr. Socially Unacceptable may accuse them of defamation or something. HOAs aren't the police and don't have the authority to take appropriate action with stuff like this.

Withholding amenities is in both our CC&Rs and Bylaws and, in fact, our Board just withheld Visitor Parking from an owner for a rules violation.

I don't think you can withhold if not indoor docs. Ask you HOA attorney -- quick phone call. Agree lifetime ban would be unreasonable.

Is alcohol banned at your pool? Glass containers? Was it glass? Put differently, what rules did the person read?

Do your docs permit fines?

One of our rules is no loud behavior at the pool area or in it.

I am being exacting here, for the archives.

If notice of the amount of the fine was not properly given, with a warning or two in advance depending on what the HOA's rules and Nevada law say, then I would not feel comfortable voting for the fine.

The family or person sounds like a real problem. For best results: Document everything; send notices of violations and warnings of fines in a timely fashion; and conduct hearings properly.

-- I believe warning of the exact amount of the fine that will be incurred if the violation continues is key.

-- On meds and known to have PTSD sounds like a disability to me. AugustinD's claimed wisdom on the topic, not based in case law but in observing interactions with the mentally ill and with the Fair Housing Act's requirement for reasonable accommodation of the disabled: Being exact in communications is particularly vital with the mentally impaired. I am working with someone (for at least five minutes more) where I live who I am pretty sure is Bi-Polar. His communication skills are appalling; then again he has a legally recognized disability. What to do? Dot every i and cross every t when it comes to notice and hearings. (Where I am, the Board did not come close to dotting i's and crossing t's. The end result: Years of litigation. I can't say the HOA is winning, either.) Because of the disability, possibly give one more chance beyond that which someone not disabled would get.

-- Didn't you post about this dude before, around Dec 2018, at https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/257272/view/topic/Default.aspx ? Since you now have a board majority who feels as you do, this sure sounds like progress. Granted costing you a lot of labor. Good job.

-- I hope the HOA attorney is involved in this one.

Has the Board ever fined this guy? Has he paid? Have you fined him repeatedly?

I do think a $1,000 fine for alcohol/glass at the pool is unreasonable, so will be interested to learn what your HOA attorney says,

It seems like you're blaming your PM, but the Board directs her/him. If the PM isn't performing to your contract with the person, get a new one. What odes your contract say re: violations, fines, etc.?

It should be noted that the HOA is NOT the police. There is a difference between rule enforcement and Law breaking. Know the difference between callng the HOA President and calling your local Law enforcement.

Having glass at the pool is a safety issue. Being publicly drunk is a law enforcement issue. It's still can be considered public intoxication. So if the person is drunk at the pool, call the police or friend to escort them out.

Fines are for punitive corrective action of HOA rules. The police are for enforcement of laws.

We had a guy expose himself at the pool to a woman. The woman went home and called the police. That person was also one of our troubled members. He had several incidents of sexual misbehaviors. The best I could do is have the "victim" call the police and then pass the word to NOT allow women to be alone with this man. I would go to the "regulars" at the pool and whisper in their ear to NOT allow women to be alone with him. This helped as we had the ear of the community on him. Nothing we could do law enforcement wise as the police had to handle that side of things.

So, LetA, teethes guy, who's been giving your HOA prelims since at least 2018 has never been called to hearing and fined???? The Board, and you're on it, could find yourselves in trouble for not enforcing rules concerning safety.

The Board MUST instruct the PM to to follow the correct procedures to fine this guy. "You're calling the PM "they." "They" never fine him. But uncharge of all this is you board members. Do let us know what you attorney says today.

I don't think the board has a duty to act if a man makes lewd remarks to a minor. You may not have a rule against it. It's a neighbor-neighbor issue and maybe a police matter.

The residents breaks rules on your HOA's premises, it's on the Board, if the rule-breaking is corroborated by someone other than the combining resident, or pics, etc.

I am sorry about my poor typing, LetA. I've been trying to point out that the Board is responsible for the safety of residents of your HOA, NOT the PM.

Alcohol in a glass container is NOT a neighbor-neighbor issue. I don't get how another board member thinks that it is. If the PM is not following your hearing and fining procedures, then the Board must enforce this rule by instructing the PM with its vote to follow your HOA's written hearing and fining procedures. You do have some, right? NV statues might help?

If a board turns a blind eye to known dangerous behavior or hazards, its member can be liable. Pretty sure I saw this in case law.

It's start.

So, did the Board instruct the PM to call this guy to a hearing?
What are the alleged violations that'll be brought up at the hearing?
Does your HOA have a fining schedule?

What did your HOA attorney advise?

Yes, a group email with the latest act by the homeowner pretty much made that happen. General nuisance violations Max fine $100. Yes there is a fining schedule.
waiting on the GC opinion if we can institute a one calendar year ban from the pool.

No the Group email was between we BOD's an the PM. It was I that witnessed the guy throw the dog in the pool. The violation falls under the general nuisance and causing disturbances covenant and specifically cited having a dog in the pool and in the water.

Yep, They are going to give it a good scrub and an acid wash, and going to ask the HD inspector to reassess. They could have just did a visual and the dirt stains gave the reflection and illusion in the water that they plaster was pitting and chipping., And it could be the way the quartz looks. Crew was there this morn with a floor buffer with the scrub brush and cleaned the deck. Much of the discoloration is from water stains which I find laughable because the pool was completely closed down last year. The deck was resurfaced just before the ordered shutdown. Next on the agenda is to ask the landscapers to run the irrigation system to check for leaks. I am just at a loss for words on how a brand new laid deck can look ten years old when it wasn't used for an entire year.

Going to have to look for a company that has a much better product.