Paver Installation Issue

Started by JoseO • 8 replies • 1851 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JoseO (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

I purchased a house in Amberly Villas in 2020. I was made aware that Paver installation required HOA approval.
After the first "DENIAL", I resubmitted with paver installation 1 foot away from the house to allow for drainage which was the cause for the denial. I submitted all documentation from contractor along with marked photos and site survey. It was clear the new submission would address the drainage issues, but I was still denied. I am now considering the pavers be installed with a drainage line which should put to reset the drainage issue.

There are two types of villas, Zaphire and Ruby. In both designs, all access to the linais, on the outside, from the front of the house is thru a very unstable grass which makes walking difficult from the outside. The paver walkway would solve this problem. I feel that the HOA members reviewing the recommendations only want to follow the "RULES" even when a proper solution is presented. The pavers will not distract from the rest of the layout as the grey color matches existing concrete color. Is there anything else that I can try to get this request approved?

HOA RESPONSE

Status Note
Apr 06, 2021 11:09 am by Community Manager

Pavers impede drainage easement. Per section 15.9-(Any such drainage easement shall not contain permanent improvements, including but not limited to sidewalks, driveways, impervious surfaces, patios, decks, pools, air conditioners, structures, utility sheds, poles, fences, irrigation systems, trees, shrubs, hedges or landscaping plants other than grass, except for (i) improvements installed by the Declarant..)

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Jose-O, in my experience with city land use departments, drainage is a big legal deal in general. If Section 15.9 is a covenant, then I think the HOA not only is permitted to refuse your application; it is also obliged to do so.

It might be that the Board is thinking that approving enough applications like yours will have a huge impact on drainage.

You can lobby for an amendment to whatever document contains Section 15.9, but even with enough people supporting an amendment, your city's land use department might have to get involved and may decree: Not allowed.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JoseO on 04/18/2021 7:14 AM
Any such drainage easement shall not contain permanent improvements, including but not limited to sidewalks, driveways, impervious surfaces, patios, decks, pools, air conditioners, structures, utility sheds, poles, fences, irrigation systems, trees, shrubs, hedges or landscaping plants other than grass, except for (i) improvements installed by the Declarant..

I see the above language, word for word, in some boilerplate Florida covenants. The language is part of a much longer paragraph that clearly indicates the city/county's involvement in approving the drainage system of the community. The paragraph even mentions "SWMS," which stands for "Surface Water Management System," earlier defined in the covenants as a certain Florida statute-regulated system involving, of course, government permits.

I believe the OP's board did the right thing

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Jose, has your HOA or City planning commission offered any resolutions to get you in compliance so you can proceed with your project? Perhaps another General Contractor can be of advice. Sounds like you need to install a gutter system of some sort to prevent rain water damage and pooling.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am not sure a paver installation is what you need. Those rise and fall causing an even more uneven surface to walk on. You may want to talk to the board about options can do. Which someone suggested gutters. May need a french drain system installed.

You may want pavers but doesn't mean there isn't other options. I have a concrete mold that makes stepping stones. Works similar as pavers but installs a little different.

Having experience drainage issues, you may shop around or get more ideas than your own.

Former HOA President

JoseO (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Thank you all for the rapid responses.
These villas are approaching the 2nd phase so all these houses are new and have gutters.
All these units have a 1 foot soil clearance where the gutters can drain into.
I have proposed that the walkway or path be constructed 1 foot away so this would not pose a drainage issue, yet the HOA will not accept.
My next approach would be the use of stepping stones. This in no way should impose a drainage problem.

AugustinD
Posts: 3,698

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JoseO on 04/18/2021 2:57 PM
I have proposed that the walkway or path be constructed 1 foot away so this would not pose a drainage issue, yet the HOA will not accept.
My next approach would be the use of stepping stones. This in no way should impose a drainage problem.

Cities retain licensed professional engineers to evaluate the drainage of a property and see that the property meets extensive, legally enforceable, drainage requirements. Said engineers have graduated from an accredited bachelor's degree engineering program; passed a preliminary one-day long exam; worked for five years under supervision of other PEs; and then passed another one-day exam; all to qualify, via review of hundreds of pages of plans and site visits, with other professionals necessarily in tow, to assess whether a property has proper drainage. It is not trivial. It is darned expensive to get approval.

The courts say that the covenants are contractual terms. The covenants are also a promise to the city that the HOA will only do to the drainage what the covenants permit. Here, the covenants do not permit the pavers.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Jose,

Perhaps you are attempting to install the pavers in a swale (a shallow indentation to direct storm water).

Swales, and other storm water management devices, are often required by the city/county and are approved in the design phase of the development.

You might want to contact the local authorities to identify options that you can explore and then present to the developer (with the blessing of the water resource management office).

See: https://floridadep.gov/Water

JesseE (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JoseO on 04/18/2021 7:14 AM
I purchased a house in Amberly Villas in 2020. I was made aware that Paver installation required HOA approval.
After the first "DENIAL", I resubmitted with paver installation 1 foot away from the house to allow for drainage which was the cause for the denial. I submitted all documentation from contractor along with marked photos and site survey. It was clear the new submission would address the drainage issues, but I was still denied. I am now considering the pavers be installed with a drainage line which should put to reset the drainage issue.

There are two types of villas, Zaphire and Ruby. In both designs, all access to the linais, on the outside, from the front of the house is thru a very unstable grass which makes walking difficult from the outside. The paver walkway would solve this problem. I feel that the HOA members reviewing the recommendations only want to follow the "RULES" even when a proper solution is presented. The pavers will not distract from the rest of the layout as the grey color matches existing concrete color. Is there anything else that I can try to get this request approved?

HOA RESPONSE

Status Note
Apr 06, 2021 11:09 am by Community Manager

Pavers impede drainage easement. Per section 15.9-(Any such drainage easement shall not contain permanent improvements, including but not limited to sidewalks, driveways, impervious surfaces, patios, decks, pools, air conditioners, structures, utility sheds, poles, fences, irrigation systems, trees, shrubs, hedges or landscaping plants other than grass, except for (i) improvements installed by the Declarant..)

I live in a different county in a townhouse development built by the same builder. I agree with some of the comments here. We have had a similar issue, but with our driveways which are very narrow. You might be interfering with a swale or it might be a fact of reducing the impervious surface (the grass) that will absorb the water. I would contact your county for help on your situation.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here