COA record request restrictions

Started by BenR2 • 20 replies • 798 views

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BenR2 (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I'm curious

Our condo association is restricting records inspection to only one person.

Someone recently requested to see some records and wanted someone else to come along to help take pictures and inspect.

But our association told them that only one person was allowed to inspect the documents.

1. Does your association limit record inspections to only one person.

2. Does a board member have to put something in writing to view records within reason?

Dave Bunch
Florida

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Let's think about this... The ONLY person who has the right to view HOA records are MEMBERS ONLY. So this guest is NOT a HOA member and thus can not be party to viewing. Would you want a complete stranger viewing your HOA records. Especially if there is a possibility of personal information being revealed?

Hence the rule is "MEMBERS ONLY" can view the records.

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I think some/many associations require a second person such as a property manager or a board member to be present - it's to prevent a disgruntled owner from damaging records or walking off with some of them. This seems reasonable since the board or its agent the PM is required to protect and maintain records.

I can't see the need to allow an "inspection buddy" unless the person making the request has a disability of some sort that needs to be accommodated. And even in that case, the person is entitled to an accommodation of some sort but not necessarily their preferred option. The accommodation may be something like the person providing a list of items they want to see and the property manager making copies and emailing/snail mailing them.

I believe Florida law requires COAs over a certain size to maintain an association web site. If the site is properly designed with a members-only section requiring logins and passwords, you can easily make available the most frequently requested records which can make everyone's life easier. I can't be the only one who is annoyed that in 2021 condo owners are still forced to go to a physical location to sort through boxes of paper to find information that they're entitled to see.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I missed your second question.

Putting something in writing is perfectly reasonable.

The owner should make the request in writing, and a person such as a board member or PM should acknowledge receipt of the request. Both these things should be dated, because once the request is received, the clock starts ticking on providing the necessary access.

Since this is Florida and things are well regulated there, your state law probably has a list of records that a COA must provide to owners. For anything outside of that, the request can be denied. There is no need to enable a fishing expedition. And double check if there are limits on what can reasonably be charged for copying and mailing records.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

What Cathy and Melissa said. The property manager doesn't have the time to supervise a bunch of people inspected ting re odds- depending on the amount of records to review and the space needed to review them, i see no reason why one person can't do the job. Id make an exception for a handicapped resident.

This would be a good time to establish a formal records policy that can address several issues like records retention, destruction of certain records, protecting owners personal information, and inspecting records. Talk to your association attorney and master insurance carrier about drafting a policy to ensure compliance with the state law and reduce risk to the association

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

I noticed that GeorgeS21 has posted here and several other threads, but his posts get removed.

George, you make very good contributions. Please come back by starting another account with a different user name.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

It could be an issue with maintaining proper distancing for covid.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Good point Tim too. However, I also don't believe non-members need to be involved unless they are there for physical support for a disabled person. Otherwise, non-members don't need to know HOA business.

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 03/07/2021 11:07 AM
It could be an issue with maintaining proper distancing for covid.

When I first read this, I thought you were referring to Jeff's comment about George's missing posts. :-) I think I need a nap....

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/07/2021 11:10 AM
Good point Tim too. However, I also don't believe non-members need to be involved unless they are there for physical support for a disabled person. Otherwise, non-members don't need to know HOA business.

Where did the OP say of the other person was a member or not?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Logic. Follow it. Why would 2 owners come in at the same time? One with equipment to make copies and one without? Doesn't make sense. It makes sense is if the OP is trying to come in with their lawyer or a friend to make copies. Those are NOT members.

What other purpose would multiple owners need to come in at the same time? Especially during Covid times? Or do you want to keep arguing with everything I post at this point?

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/07/2021 12:54 PM
Logic. Follow it. Why would 2 owners come in at the same time? One with equipment to make copies and one without? Doesn't make sense. It makes sense is if the OP is trying to come in with their lawyer or a friend to make copies. Those are NOT members.

What other purpose would multiple owners need to come in at the same time? Especially during Covid times? Or do you want to keep arguing with everything I post at this point?

My point is you are making another baseless assumption which you frequently do. In many cases you end up being dead wrong but you still keep doing it. In this case you may be right but you might also be wrong.

Also, I have another question for you. Suppose you are right and this evil doer wants the lawyer to see these documents. He is told that the lawyer can't come. Don't you think that he will make copies of everything he's entitled to and then give them to the lawyer once he leaves?

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

Florida law says

"The official records of the association are open to inspection by any association member or the authorized representative of such member at all reasonable times. The right to inspect the records includes the right to make or obtain copies, at the reasonable expense, if any, of the member or authorized representative of such member....The association may adopt reasonable rules regarding the frequency, time, location, notice, and manner of record inspections and copying. "

So someone other than an owner may inspect if authorized by the owner.

The association may limit it to one person at at time, which is reasonable during the pandemic.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Good reply, Jeff. This was getting kind coo-coo.

I miss George and Geno of FL!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Yep that is your opinion so I must live up to it all times right or wrong...

Seems the FACTS are that ONLY owners are allowed to view the records OR if they assign someone to represent them. That is still 1 person. There are NO such thing as multiple owners unless your an LLC. Which the OP did not state they were.

Plus with the pandemic limiting viewing to one is reasonable. Also if they do have a lawyer, then they will get the information from a member NOT directly from the HOA. The MEMBER is the one paying the lawyer NOT the HOA. Anything the HOA would present would be during "discovery" with their own lawyer.

So far as many others here have posted and even quoted laws of, 1 person that is the owner can view. Any others have to be approved by the owner. However, the number still equals 1 person.

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/07/2021 2:18 PM
Yep that is your opinion so I must live up to it all times right or wrong...

Seems the FACTS are that ONLY owners are allowed to view the records OR if they assign someone to represent them. That is still 1 person. There are NO such thing as multiple owners unless your an LLC. Which the OP did not state they were.

Plus with the pandemic limiting viewing to one is reasonable. Also if they do have a lawyer, then they will get the information from a member NOT directly from the HOA. The MEMBER is the one paying the lawyer NOT the HOA. Anything the HOA would present would be during "discovery" with their own lawyer.

So far as many others here have posted and even quoted laws of, 1 person that is the owner can view. Any others have to be approved by the owner. However, the number still equals 1 person.

Perfect example! Read Jeff's reply and then what you said earlier and stated as a fact:

"Let's think about this... The ONLY person who has the right to view HOA records are MEMBERS ONLY. So this guest is NOT a HOA member and thus can not be party to viewing. Would you want a complete stranger viewing your HOA records. Especially if there is a possibility of personal information being revealed?

Hence the rule is "MEMBERS ONLY" can view the records."

Hence, you were wrong again and my concern is you are going to mislead someone and send them in the wrong direction.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Worry away. It is FREE advice. Get over it. It is NOT directed towards you. The end.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I worry too about some, especially new lurkers, being led astray. If corrected, posters should just admit it and let it go. They should not repeat their same ol' tired argument every time a version of "records inspection" comes up.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

BenR2 (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I did not say that the other person was not a member.
It actually would be another association member.
And Yes there will be a CAM or Admin watching the person.

One of the reasons was to help look at some recall ballots and compare them to signatures.

Another reason is the President and CAM are not very cooperative and we'd like to have two people go in.
To keep them from saying we did something to the ballots.

I don't know why COVID is used as an excuse now a days. We are a safe community and wear masks when and where needed.
The two people that work in the office don't wear a mask and they sit right next to each other.
The LCAM comes to our board meetings with no complaints that has about 30 people in a room and we all wear masks.

So I don't see why having two people look at some records is an issue.

Was Just wanting to see what other associations allowed.

According to the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation for Condo Associations I can have someone go in my place.
A friend, relative, business associate etc.
Shouldn't really matter if it's a member. As long as I put them down on the initial request as person that I'd like to review the records.
They just have to show there Driver's license to prove that it is the right person.

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