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JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
We have 144 side by side condos. Some are slabs and others are crawlspaces. We have never paid for any type of pest control services other than termite treatment. Recently a resident has asked that the HOA come out and remove an unknown 'animal' in her crawl space and then provide sanitization services for the crawl space. She was told that we don't provide this service and stated that we are required to. Below is a section of our master deed. Based on the wording would you agree with her? If it matters, each condo has side walls so it is not one continuous crawl space.

By the Association: The Association shall provide maintenance of the common elements and exterior maintenance upon each residence as follows: stain (or paint as the case may be), repair, replace and care for roofs, exterior building surfaces, stoops and outside steps, patios, decks, screened porches, crawl spaces, foundations, sidewalks, walkways, driveways, gutters and downspouts, chimney and chimney cap, pipes, valves, wires and ducts that service more than one Unit. The Association shall maintain the structural integrity of the areas outside of the Residence/Unit; however, the utility costs associated with certain repairs to specific Residences/Units are the individual responsibility of the Residence Owner. The Association shall paint exterior window trim, dwelling entry doors and garage doors. In the event that the Board of Directors shall determine that the need for maintenance or repairs by the Association as provided for in this paragraph is caused through the willful or negligent act of a residence owner, his lessee or their family, guests or invitees and not covered or paid for by insurance, the costs of such maintenance or repairs shall be added to and become a part of the assessment to which such residence owner is subject. Maintenance of a residence shall otherwise be the responsibility of the residence owner.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Yes siree Bob.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Not enough info yet.

Do your CC&Rs define the crawl spaces as part of the unit or common elements? Where is the dividing line between unit and crawl space? For example, does the unit include the floor/subfloor but the concrete footers and soil are common elements? I'm assuming your community isn't landominiums (attached homes but owners own the ground beneath their homes).

One thing to consider is whether "maintain, repair, and replace" includes anything beyond that such as cleanup. I view removing a critter from a space to be very different from repairing physical damage or painting, but I can see how others wouldn't agree.

Another item to consider is liability. You do have to be concerned about any products being used in the crawlspace area and the possibility of fumes, etc. coming into the home. Ditto making sure that the "critter gitter" is licensed, bonded, insured and properly trained.

Life would be a whole lot easier if this were the owner's problem...

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 03/05/2021 9:29 AM
By the Association:

It would be helpful to know which particular document this comes from.
Declaration?
Bylaws?
Rules & Regs?
Or it it referenced in multiple documents?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Cathy

I interpret this no differently than if any exterior surface of the structure were affected by an infestation, be it wasps, bees, or squirrels. Maintenance includes the removal of pests and other noxious critters. Since the crawl space is specifically listed, it is an exterior surface of the structure.

I understand your question, and possible frustration, regarding where is "the line". We have clients operating under 1980s documents which were based on 1969s or 1970s documents. Most state the unit owner is responsible for the window. That's fine, but where does the window stop? The framing material surrounding the glass pane? The entire window structure which was inserted into the cut-out in the framing?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
As others have said, it would be considered maintenance.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With Cathy, I'd like to know too how the crawl space is defined. Common area? Exclusive use common area, what?

Still, the HOA is supposed to maintain, repair & replace the crawl spaces. Assuming the critter got in through a broken or flimsy, etc.,hatch opening to the crawl space, it seems the HOA is obligated to removed the animal.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/06/2021 12:41 PM
With Cathy, I'd like to know too how the crawl space is defined. Common area? Exclusive use common area, what?

Still, the HOA is supposed to maintain, repair & replace the crawl spaces. Assuming the critter got in through a broken or flimsy, etc.,hatch opening to the crawl space, it seems the HOA is obligated to removed the animal.

I am not yet convinced that what was posted said the HOA is supposed to maintain, repair & replace the crawl spaces nor obligated to remove the animal.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 03/06/2021 12:41 PM
With Cathy, I'd like to know too how the crawl space is defined. Common area? Exclusive use common area, what?

Still, the HOA is supposed to maintain, repair & replace the crawl spaces. Assuming the critter got in through a broken or flimsy, etc.,hatch opening to the crawl space, it seems the HOA is obligated to removed the animal.

It's defined as a Limited Common Element. Sorry for the delay in not responding earlier. I'm visiting family and probably should have waited to post this after I get back. I'm not for or against providing pest control but if we are going to do it we obviously need to budget for it and spell out what it covers and when. Our condos are 60 years old and interior maintenance is an issue. For example, when I bought my condo and had the bathroom gutted the floor was rotten due to the wax seal for the toilet not being replaced. If mice or other rodents get in because of the owners neglect do we pay for pest control? If it's ants who decides when its bad enough to warrant treatment? The bottom line is I can see this issue being a real pain the .... Here's the verbiage in the master deed.

N. “Limited common elements” means and includes those common elements which are designated on the plot plan and are reserved for the use of a certain number of units to the exclusion of the other units. Also included as Limited Common Elements are decks and balconies, screened porches, driveways, walkways, front door landing/steps, patios, crawl spaces and slabs.

V. “Unit” shall mean “condominium” or “residence” and shall also mean and comprise the separate numerically identified residences which are designated in Exhibit “B” in this Declaration, excluding, however, all spaces and improvements lying beneath undecorated and/or unfinished inner surfaces of the perimeter walls and floors, and above the undecorated and/or unfinished inner surfaces on the ceiling of each Unit, and further excluding all spaces and improvements lying beneath the undecorated and/or unfinished inner surfaces of all interior bearing walls and/or partitions, and further excluding all pipes, ducts, wires, conduits, and other facilities running through any interior wall or partition for the furnishing of utility services, to the residences, common areas, limited common areas and facilities, except:

V.1. All wallboard, plasterboard, plaster, paneling, tiles, wallpaper, finished flooring and any other materials constituting any part of the unfinished surfaces thereof are part of the unit, and all other portions of the walls, floors, or ceilings and all structural elements of the buildings are part of the common elements;

V.2. If any chute, flue, duct, wire, conduit, bearing wall, bearing column, or any other fixture lies partially within and partially outside the designated boundaries of a unit, any portion thereof serving only that unit is a limited common element allocated solely to that unit, and any portion thereof serving more than one unit or any portion of the common elements is a part of the common elements;

V.3. Subject to the provision of paragraph (2), all spaces, interior partitions, and other fixtures and improvements within the boundaries of a unit are part of the unit;

V.4. Any doorsteps, stoops, porches, balconies, patios, and walled-in areas appurtenant to a unit and all exterior doors and windows or other fixtures designed to serve a single unit, but located outside the unit’s boundaries, are limited common elements allocated exclusively to that unit (See Article VII on maintenance of limited common elements).

V.5. A garage is part of a unit. Garage doors, hinges, locks and any apparatus for opening and closing garage doors are limited common elements allocated exclusively to the unit.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The Association shall provide maintenance as follows: "...repair, replace and care for...crawl spaces..." looks pretty clear to me, JohnC. And, unless the crawl space is entered from the interior of the Unit, the entrance also is the respsobility of the HOA to maintain, repair & replace. So it seems to me, assuming that entrance is broken, warped or otherwise not maintained, so that a sizable animals could get in, the HOA is respsoble for fixing the entry and correcting the issues that it caused.

We're a condo building, too, and the HOA is not responsible for the ants, silver fish, cockroaches, mosquitos that we may find in our units as these areas are not the HOA's responsibility. Such pests enter with our cartons and bags that we bring home. Many units here don't even have screens.... (not me!).

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The Association shall provide maintenance as follows: "...repair, replace and care for...crawl spaces..." looks pretty clear to me, JohnC. And, unless the crawl space is entered from the interior of the Unit, the entrance also is the respsobility of the HOA to maintain, repair & replace. So it seems to me, assuming that entrance is broken, warped or otherwise not maintained, so that a sizable animals could get in, the HOA is respsoble for fixing the entry and correcting the issues that it caused.

We're a condo building, too, and the HOA is not responsible for the ants, silver fish, cockroaches, mosquitos that we may find in our units as these areas are not the HOA's responsibility. Such pests enter with our cartons and bags that we bring home. Many units here don't even have screens.... (not me!) and fling their windows & balcony doors wide open.

All our condos have at least 2 bathrooms. Often the unit is occupied by one person, or a part-timer or the 2nd bath is simply rarely used. Tiny flies then breed in the drain lines and we'll occasionally see them in our guest bathtub. Sure, came for the common area drain, but in my unit, which I can prevent.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I see the word crawl spaces in the covenant you cited. Looks like your HOA is indeed responsible.

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