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JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
It seems we have one, then multiple side ones for different common elements such as pool, laundry, etc that don't match the main one, and no real tracking of when these rules are issued to the members.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I don't understand what "one" means. One document, or one rule & reg?

I don't know what you're saying here: there's "...no real tracking of when these rules are issued to the members." do you mean when a violation latter is is issued to an owners? Or do you mean when the rule itself was created and how it was disseminated to all owners??
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
There is no set number of rules any community should or shouldn't have. It's a matter of whats essential to protect the comments n areas and make life fairly sane for the people who live and n the community. You can't always legislate everything, nor should you. Some things should be a matter of common sense and courtesy. Then again, some people behave as if rules apply to everyone else but them.

You also have to consider the amount of time and trouble it takes to enforce all this stuff. You've seen that insurance commercial with the lady from the HOA nitpicking over literature in a new neighbor's yard (Progressive, I think). That sort of potluck by gets on everyone's nerves. Rules aren't worth much if they're niyptvenforced, but some people seem to think everything needs a ruke.

So if you think your community has "too many rules", you could suggest a committee be established to look at the process and make recommendations to the. Maybe there are some rules that can be dropped, others revised to reflect the community as it is today, etc.

I've noticed several of your posts and don't know if you're a new board member or new to HOA living, but it does seem you don't know anything about how your community is run. Instead of jumping from topic to topic and making yourself crazy, why not pick an area you want to learn more about and focus on that? If you're a new board nember, a workshop or two (maybe three) would do you some good.

Check out the CAI website's educational materials. There are books and webinars and your here might be a local chapter in your area that offers classes. By learning best practices for associations, you can see what could be adapted to your community. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Sheila, Janine.

For example, Rules and Regulations are usually all in one place-- a handbook or a few pages of a document. In our and I believe most HOAs Rules & Regs ARE governing documents.

What do your CC&Rs say about them? In the front of the CC&Rs is often sort of a Glossary or dictionary that defines terms for you. Read it.
JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
I would also think that Rules and Regulations are all in one place.

Our Management company has so many random >documents< that need to be pieced together. There is not one document for the members.

I'm not concerned about "how many" rules there are, just how our MC is maintaining these documents,

------

Our Governing documnets say:

"Books and Records. The Association shall maintain current copies
of this Master Deed, the Charter, the Bylaws, and all rules and regulations concerning the
Condominium, as well as its own books, records, and financial statements, all of which
shall be available for inspection by Unit Owners or by holders, insurers, and guarantors of
first mortgages that are secured by one or more Units."
JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
Sheila

I have appreciated your responses so far and they have been helpful.

But your speculation of why I ask questions on an HOA FORUM are not correct.

I have been part of HOA living for 18 years. There is just ONE HOA that I am a member of that has particular specific issues that I haven't seen before and am asking input from my peers, I thought, on this forum.

See an example here https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/298549/view/topic/Default.aspx

Being told to go educate myself is not helpful.

I hope I can continue to ask specific questions without being given a virtual eye-roll.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Answering the question of how many resolutions there should be - the answer is as many as is needed by the Association.

Regarding publishing to the membership - every resolution should be published.
After awhile, they should be bound into a book of governing documents (covenants, articles of incorporation, bylaws and all resolutions). These should be provided or offered to the membership.

I've attached a list of policies every board should have before they need them.
I'm sure it should be expanded.
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📝122791959971.doc(21 KB)
JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
Thanks Tim
The question was how many Rules and Regulation documents there should be, as it says in the subject of the post. But the question seems to have been misread as how many rules should there be.

Other HOAs that I have been in or are in have always had just one document that list all the Rules and Regulations.

This trouble maker HOA that I ask many questions about (mostly because of the management company) have multiple different copies of Rules and Regulations, and just pull from they want. They also don't post them when they change a rule.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Who is the "they" who changes the rules, Janine? Aren't the rules changes at meetings so that the changes appear in the minutes?

If I were on the board of your HOA, I'd ask the Board to vote to instruct the PM to compile all the rules in one binder or notebook or whatever and post on your website how Owrs may read them. If there are rules that conflict with one another or with your CC&Rs or Byawls, get them on an agenda and modify or delete them.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
It takes an organized association to keep track/post R&R's and few are that organized. One reason being is they can easily be changed by the BOD and the BOD alone so not all about them.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
How many DOCUMENTS? Starting the top are the State statutes, then the Declarations establishing the condos, then the Bylaws for the Association, then Rules and Regulations.

I belong to two different HOA's. For one all those documents are about 15 pages for the other all those documents are close to 200 pages.
JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
Thanks Mike

The question is: How many "Rules and Regulations documents" should there be?
I've always assumed one. Organized all in one place.
But our PM has multiple versions, and plucks from them, and doesn't have them posted to our portal or any other place.

To be honest, I am most defiantly looking for the answer "one"

But before investing time into a back and forth with the PM, I am reaching out in case there are examples in other HOA's where there are multiple "Rules and Regulations documents"
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sooooo, Janine, I did reply "one" and gave advice. In my HOA & I think many, the Rules & Regulations are listed as a governing document. what do you CC&Rs say? There's often a dictionary or glossary in the front which might define them for you.
JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
Agree.
JanineR (Tennessee)
Posts: 259
Posted:
Kerry, I was satisfied with the advice given, and appreciate it.

I was asked another question on this thread, so I answered it.
That is why it is showing up again as active in the forum.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
There should be only ONE set of Rules and Regulations per individual association. Unfortunately, over time, change of management and change of Boards documents such as the R&R get misplaced. This also happens with amendments to the CCRs, Articles and Bylaws. Some are recorded and can be found at the County level, IF you know what you're looking for. Some boards will operate using a Book of Board Resolutions but those don't get handled properly.

Bottomline, IF the Association doesn't have a good policy on record keeping, things will fall through the bottomless pit.
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanineR on 03/07/2021 11:01 AM
Thanks Mike

The question is: How many "Rules and Regulations documents" should there be?
I've always assumed one. Organized all in one place.
But our PM has multiple versions, and plucks from them, and doesn't have them posted to our portal or any other place.

To be honest, I am most defiantly looking for the answer "one"

But before investing time into a back and forth with the PM, I am reaching out in case there are examples in other HOA's where there are multiple "Rules and Regulations documents"

The answer is . . . it depends on the association. There could be one document or there could be several/many documents. There ya go! I think the responses here so far have relayed the same message. There's no set rule.

While a single "rules and regulations" document sounds nice, the trouble is that individual rules are created, revised, and/or removed as time goes on and depends a lot on the Board that exists at that time. Each Board has a different approach to rule creation and rules enforcement.

I've seen both methods in each of my two HOAs, and each seem to make sense for that HOA. In my prior HOA, the "rules" were a compilation of many different individual rules added over time and they are collectively called the "rules and regulations". This makes sense because whenever it's decided that a rule needs to be created, it's a single document/resolution that is generated and approved, and then that document gets added to all other individual rules as part of the R&Rs. But it does take organization over time from the Board and MC (both of which also change through time) to ensure all are tracked and rules are added, revised, and removed as needed.

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