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KatieH3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7
Posted:
We purchased a vacant piece of land with the intentions on building a house. The land was listed with an agent as a “residential building lot.” We purchased with an agent through the same real estate company to which the land was being sold. We did a title search, had a survey, and did a perc test, all as contingency’s for purchasing. All went well and we bought the land. The owner never disclosed it was part of an HOA or that there were restrictions/covenants in place. He in fact checked NO to those questions on the disclosure form. Never once was an HOA mentioned to us before or during closing. That was in 2018. Fast forward to This past October, ready to close on our construction loan and the title company for it, found a non-building clause on our land. At that time, we had to do an amendment to the plat and have the new plat re recorded as a building lot with the county. We were successful with doing so as the reason it was non buildable was because it wasn’t perc tested. Which we did in 2018. Now, closing on our new construction loan this Wednesday, and a neighbor (with in the HOA we are believed to be apart of) is perusing suing us to keep us from building there. HELP!!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:

If there are deed restrictions (covenants) and you have written proof you were not informed of them, this is what title insurance is for.

You can report the realtor to the licensing bureau for improper disclosure.
If you can find them, you can bring legal action against the previous owner to void the sale for improper disclosure.

It's likely that the best you can do is void the sale.

I would suggest contacting a real estate attorney to see what your legal options are.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
KatieH3, as TimB4, indicated, you should certainly set up a meeting with a real estate attorney. In preparation for this meeting:

-- Obtain a copy of any covenants/restrictions recorded with the county for your land. Be aware that courts generally rule that covenants/restrictions recorded with the county are considered proper notice of said covenants/restrictions.

-- Find exactly where in the covenants/restrictions a HOA is required. If you can, quote the sections here or attach a link to the documents, with identifying information redacted. This forum does not allow identification of actual HOAs.

-- Look up the HOA at the Pennsylvania Secretary of State site, corporations section. If possible, obtain a copy of the Articles of incorporation. I would love to hear back from you about whether an incorporated HOA actually has some kind of control over your land.

-- To be clear, as I am not quite sure where you are with your research: Keep in mind that the existence of a HOA is different from the existence of covenants and restrictions. Covenants and restrictions can exist without a HOA being present. Neighbors can enforce covenants and restrictions, regardless of whether a HOA exists.

-- Did the amendment of the plat require review by municipal or county authorities? I am betting it did. I think this is in your favor.

-- The Pennsylvania Uniform Planned Community Act may or may not be relevant here. See https://www.parealtors.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/UniformPlannedCommunityAct.pdf , especially section 5402 and 5407. Or at least ask the attorney about these.
KatieH3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you both for your reply. I did reach out to a real estate attorney. They discovered that we did our part by making it a building lot by going through sewage planning back in 2018 (we already obtained a sewage permit). He is also who directed us to go back to surveyor and amend the plat to remove non building clause-by doing that we needed to have planning at the county vote on it. Then, record with recorder of deeds. Which we’ve done.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
-- Great, re the attorney's counsel. May I ask: How much did the attorney cost you?

-- I think there is a strong argument for doing nothing with the neighbor until his/her attorney starts sending demand letters. I do mean not responding in any way, shape or form. If the neighbor hires an attorney, then you all should turn over any demand letters to your attorney and see what your attorney says to the claims in the demand letters.
KatieH3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Not a significant amount of money but my fear is the neighbor will send demands and I’ll have to keep paying an attorney to fight this battle that I don’t even understand I should be fighting. Based off attorney and surveyors, we’re in the clear to build. We’ve done everything right. But for some reason, neighbor doesn’t agree. Their attorney contacted ours last week to see our status. (Because neighbor has seen activity on our property because we marked the house location and driveway and so on). Our attorney only explained that our piece of land was described as non buildable on the plat initially because it was never perc’d. Their attorney say I’ll look into that and I’ll probably be filing something... I just worry they will try to drain us in attorney fees so we can’t afford to build anymore.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I agree with Tim that you should contact an attorney. There are just too many questions that need to be answered by a professional.

I respectfully disagree with delaying. It is possible that all the legal fees your neighbor is accumulating will someday be yours if a judge rules against you. Also, there's probably a time limit on seeking a remedy from your title company.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieH3 on 02/15/2021 8:19 AM
Their attorney contacted ours last week to see our status. (Because neighbor has seen activity on our property because we marked the house location and driveway and so on). Our attorney only explained that our piece of land was described as non buildable on the plat initially because it was never perc’d. Their attorney say I’ll look into that and I’ll probably be filing something...
If I were the neighbor's attorney, and I checked on what your attorney claims and found it without merit, then I think I'd be filing for an injunction to stop construction (a "stay order") until this is settled. Then if I were you all, every day that went by where no court filing is made would give me hope.

I'd be keeping in mind that the neighbor does not want to spend thousands on an attorney, either.

FWIW, it sounds like you all are on the best track possible; have dotted i's and crossed t's to the best of your ability; and with a competent attorney.

Thanks for sharing. Others will learn from this.

1.5 cents
KatieH3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Their attorney has not filed this “stay order” you mentioned, yet. Our attorney advised us that in order for them to file an injunction, each member of HOA would need to pay double the cost to build at 10%. That means each family (there are 6-7) would need to put up $150k. From what it seems, only one neighbor really cares about us building there, and of course he is the president of the HOA and the MOUTHPIECE. I don’t see this happening, but I worry that his attorney will find a loophole somewhere. I also worry that he will file things just to drain us financially and waste our time. But, yes, from what we are being told and what we understand, we have done everything right.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieH3 on 02/15/2021 9:03 AM
Their attorney has not filed this “stay order” you mentioned, yet. Our attorney advised us that in order for them to file an injunction, each member of HOA would need to pay double the cost to build at 10%. That means each family (there are 6-7) would need to put up $150k. From what it seems, only one neighbor really cares about us building there, and of course he is the president of the HOA and the MOUTHPIECE. I don’t see this happening, but I worry that his attorney will find a loophole somewhere. I also worry that he will file things just to drain us financially and waste our time. But, yes, from what we are being told and what we understand, we have done everything right.

I really feel for you on this one. Even if you ultimately win you have to wonder if this person will do nothing but cause your troubles going forward. A 3rd option would be to sell the lot. The problem is who is going to buy it unless this issue is settled legally? Good luck!
KatieH3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Exactly John. Either way, we feel screwed. We’re so excited to start building but have this worry looming over us.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Remember there are 2 ways to know your buying into a HOA. 1. The previous owner/seller provides the documents at/prior to closing. This is the law/requirement in some states NOT all. 2. It is the responsibility of the BUYER to "Be informed". The documents - CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are PUBLIC documents. Which means they are available at the records department. It isn't anyone's responsibility but the buyer to take the actions to view or get a copy.

So Realtors, lawyers, title company, HOA, or bank/mortgage company are NOT responsible for providing HOA documentation. It doesn't mean a good realtor or bank won't tell you there is an HOA. The properties I've bought in a HOA I was provided the documents and knew it was a HOA. The bank let me know as HOA dues factor into the loan payment. My new home it was advertised and builder provided me a copy.

Keep in mind not all situations are the same. A Realtor may not think a piece of property would be linked to an HOA. There is no home on it. If your paying straight cash for a place and not using a bank, then they won't think about providing that information. So it is possible for it NOT to be revealed by anyone. Again that is why you have to do the research yourself once you know what you are to look for.

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KatieH3 on 02/15/2021 9:03 AM
Their attorney has not filed this “stay order” you mentioned, yet. Our attorney advised us that in order for them to file an injunction, each member of HOA would need to pay double the cost to build at 10%. That means each family (there are 6-7) would need to put up $150k.
You're saying the cost of building the home is something like $750,000? And the law in Pennsylvania to stay construction requires the plaintiff (for a stay order) to put up this $150k?

Quote:

From what it seems, only one neighbor really cares about us building there, and of course he is the president of the HOA and the MOUTHPIECE.
Ya know, in my opinion from afar and lacking a copy of the HOA's governing documents, I would not be so hard on the HOA just yet. Covenants are contractual terms. If the covenants for your land were properly recorded with the county, you are bound by them. Did the municipal/county planning committee goof? I do not know.

I understand your attorney indicates you are legally in the clear. Yet an HOA does appear to exist. It has an attorney. Those covenants may very well say something about this situation to justify the HOA's ire.

I try to take only the side of the law. And I am just not 100% clear on the law here. Hopefully your attorney is.

I do think you all need to stay sugary sweet polite to the HOA people, for a few practical reasons. This does not mean cave to them. It means pursuing the facts of the situation. Granted at some expense to both sides by way of attorney fees.

I appreciate your sharing all this.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/15/2021 9:48 AM
So Realtors, lawyers, title company, HOA, or bank/mortgage company are NOT responsible for providing HOA documentation.
Whether the law requires a seller, HOA, realtor et cetera to disclose the existence of a HOA depends on the state.
KatieH3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Does anyone know the law regarding this in PA?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
AugistinD I put that caveat in my post. Stating SOME states...

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Some chatter on Pennsylvania HOA disclosure requirements, referencing of course the aforementioned Section 5407: https://blog.acrirlty.com/hoa-property-management-services/why-you-need-to-purchase-homeowner-association-resale-documents/

See Section 5407 at https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=68&div=0&chpt=54&sctn=7&subsctn=0

But first, I am just not clear a HOA actually exists though. Second, the queries I suggested above remain unanswered. And third, it's curious that the seller said one did not exist, yet there seem to be neighbors saying otherwise. Voluntary HOA?

OP, ya gotta go get a copy of the Declaration (if it exists) and seek Articles of Incorporation (if they exist).

I would hope the real estate attorney is thinking about these aspects as well. From across the anonymity of the internet, yet with a lot of experience with HOA/condo law, I do not know.
KatieH3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7
Posted:
When we first became aware of the restrictions/covenants, the title company that found it suggested we reach out to the attorney who originally wrote them back in 1993. We were successful in contacting him. As a favor for the previous owner who sold us our lot, he agreed to help. He re wrote and amendment to the restrictions and advised us to go door to door to the neighbors, as he said we needed their approval to build on our lot. At the time, we didn’t know what we were getting into. All neighbors said they didn’t care we build there and that they’d sign and have notarized. Two weeks went by and no signatures were received, rather, we got a phone call by the secretary of HOA saying it was a unanimous NO. At that time we seemed our own council whom found written on the said plat a paragraph that stated the reason for our property saying not a building lot was because it didn’t go through sewage planning when it was subdivided in 93. Because the first attorney sent us door to door, I think it made it seem as though the ball was in their court and they now have the upper hand.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Katie

All you can do now is wait for the HOA attorney to get back to your attorney as promised.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
KatieH3, thank you for the further elaboration. The fact that the attorney who wrote the 1993 covenants/restrictions said that you need an amendment that has the approval of your neighbors is concerning to me.

I hope you will keep this thread updated.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
We did a title search, had a survey............

.............ready to close on our construction loan and the title company for it, found a non-building clause on our land.


So where was this non-building clause found? Typically they are found in title searches. Why was it missed the first time?

You may have a good case for a claim against the seller and the first title search company.

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