kids

Just put rakes in the yard and watch the fun... Really what do you care? It's someone else's kid and responsibility. NOT the HOA's.

ITs insurance and safety risks. Going on top of the snow pile.. flying down. Snow pile not there for kids to kill them selves. and land into the condos. throwing snow balls at the building. So I guess its kids not being calm kids its neighbor kids and our kid being destructive. And noone around to supervise. thats why I care. Being on the board you give a crap about this stuff, If it was just kids gathering hanging out it would be fine. ITs not. An adult need to be with them supervising. And yes we have a rule for this. For 12 or under to be supervised. They arent in there condo area in the back yard. If mom inside looking out watching the kids as she heres them acting up thats fine. This kid is way away from the adult who should be watching him and its a safety issue. so yeas I care. IT falls on the board when the shit hits the fan.

Im looking for any condo areas that have had some kind of something to get the parents to realize the kids should be supervised. or move to their area of the common area. Thats all. Anyone have this issue and come up with a way of controlling the situation.

HUD does not protect the neighbor kids from comming over and being destructive doing what ever they want right. Only protects the kids who live in the condos right.

Call me old but an 11 year old kid does not need mommy and daddy following them around 100% of the time when they play in the common area. Unless the kids are breaking an HOA rule this is none of the board's business. If someone complained that my kid was playing in a snow pile I'd tell them to go pound sand. My advice is if you can't tie their actions back to a violation of HOA rules then leave this alone and don't get the HOA into the parenting business.

As for your liability concerns, you are overreaching. Using your logic ALL playing by children must be banned. No running allowed because they might fall. No jump rope allowed because they might fall. No playing tag because they might fall. Where does it end?

I realize you and others outside hoatalk may think the rule about adult supervision is reasonable and actually goes towards ensuring children's safety. I used to think the latter as well. But HUD sees this differently. Outside of swimming pools, any age-specific restriction is asking for a Fair Housing complaint that yes, HUD will almost certainly latch onto and use to clean the clocks of your HOA/condo. Discussion appears at many sites. For example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/is-it-legal-to-require-adult-supervision-of-children-at-a-condo-swimming-pool/2019/06/24/e0d9fa7a-936f-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html

https://hooverslovacek.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/law_may2015.pdf

https://www.paveselaw.com/does-your-hoa-have-a-kid-related-rule-like-this-one-rethink-it/

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/FAMILIALSTATUSFACTSHEET.PDF

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/11-061102598.PDF

Augustin is right about possible Fair Housing issues. My Declaration has a restriction that forbids "playing" on the common areas, although it's vague. I mentioned it to our attorney - he said that these sorts of restrictions are not unusual and can cause more trouble than they're worth. He recommended not trying to enforce this since it's so vague and amend the Declaration if it seems to be an issue in the community.

(FWIW and slightly OT: "playing" would also apply to adults, and amending/removing the restriction would allow the board to think about and make rules for things such as flying drones in common areas. The latter can be more of an issue in condo communities with multi-story buildings close together.)

And let me add a lot of these kids do not live in the condos. HUD does not protect them. Only families living in the condos. I need to add.

THANK YOU. for giving me information to research. Everytime this subject comes up . All I see is or hear is how you cant do it no its not this and no no no no no./Well it would be nice if HUD could help us on how we could do what is needed and it work out for all. The front yard is a safety issue al around. the street is right there the building is right there. and sliding down a snow pile into the condo building is not playing normal while the parent is not watching. Cause hopefully the parent would have the child not do that. As mentioned on a post I did. Our front yard is 20 feet by 40 feet it is not a place for kids or adults to be playing in. If we had a big enough yard I would make a play ground area for the kids. We dont have any land for these kids to be out there being kids like they want to be.

This information helps. TY

YOU DONT GET IT.. Im on the BOD.. This is a safety issue. Please stop telling e what to do. I close more doors and poof its all gone. But being on BOD it is not gone. Do you get it. Are you listening. The BOD can not go and tell the owners. go find a 55 plus place to live in. Really..

To the best of my understanding, the OP's board needs to talk to a HOA/condo-specialized attorney. And no one else.

My HOA is almost across the street from an elementary school. So close there are no busses in our HOA neighborhood. All the kids walk to the elementary school. Many of them after the age of 10 ride bikes or walk without parents. There is usually a parent at the cross walk whom will be there and kids all walk together.

However, one of board members after I had left had "befriended" some of the kids at the "poorer" apartment complex on the other side of the crosswalk. The apartment complex is known to have a higher criminal rate for our area. Many of the kids being "latchkey". They started following our kids home and then playing at the pool/common areas. So when I came by I noticed these kids hanging out in our HOA more often.

The board member is a friend of mine and one of the ones who is normally more boisterous about such things. So was a bit taken back she was allowing these kids to come over. Knowing once these kids got used to coming over they may bring the other element over as well. It was like having kids coming over and casing the place.

Our crime didn't go up at all. The kids were really needing a safe place with friends and adults. They were lonely and bored kids if they stayed at home. Which then could lead to bad behavior. However, the kids having a safe and secure place to be kids really helped them. They went home when appropriate or when adult would tell them it was time.

So you say "Don't get it". I get it very well. Why don't you stop judging the kids and give them a safe secure place to be kids? Running them off helps no one.

I agree, there is no excuse for a law not to exist that outlaws kids playing on a snow pile.

TY

Not talking about crime. Well one of the fathers from the apt house is stealing license plates off cars and items off back decks he crack head. Thats his problem. not mine. if we had a pool My thought is a parent watching them. other than that I wouldn't care. But other owners might care if your association is supplying a pool to the neighborhood kids. That's their issue to figure out. I'm saying since we have more and more people renting out the condos. there are more and more not giving a crap about safety but first to bark if you mention please dont do that to the very nicely to the kid. ITs like you reprimanded their kid. because they werent there to watch the kid. But they be the first to sue the association when something happens to their kid.

As I have too. been in my condo for 35 years. on the board for much longer. Problem happening now. lot of owners renting out the condos. Causing a lot of turn over in the people living here. And yes I understand it all too. Im asking what do ya do about it. ignoring and allowing it to happen is not a fix. But thats ok I came here for answers and answers I got thank you.

Now you are getting it. But see an attorney.

state condo statutes over ride the declarations. the statute might be different now. Im learning a lot about that with dift subjects in our declarations. Wow that part about all unit owners. common area is in our rules not Declarations. Thank you for sharing

I might go this route. Our atty helped us with a huge problem with noise and a joining condos. Well I created the rule and he put his stamp of approval on it. Which we have documented. When one owner does not like the noise out of another unit. and thinks we would get involved and with the old rule we had to get involved. and guess where we ended up in a HUD situation. because as kids have rights so do elderly people too.

Which is why I am trying to avoid the kid issue from blowing up . and visiting HUD again. Which is why we can not just ignore it.

TY

dont need to see an atty on what I just wrote that you are saying that for. IT's true. Seen it in action.

This depends on your understanding of statutory interpretation.

The only restrictions I found pertain to pool and spa use. Do feel free to post some links.
The people who answer the phone at HUD cannot give legal advice. In my experience it's best to scour the internet for HUD statements and lawsuits on the subject.

Keep reading. HUD does allow reasonable rules requiring supervision of kids, of certain ages, at pools and the like. But by my reading, rules that tend to force kids indoors are looked upon unfavorably by HUD.

I agree to disagree on HUD's helpfulness. A great example is how HUD will not nail down exactly what supervision requirements are allowable under the FHA. HUD takes these situations, of questionable requirements for supervision, case by case.

Because I think the point of this forum is to educate, here's a great example from 2020 of when and why HUD will file charges of discrimination based on familial status:

https://www.ajjcs.net/paper/main/2020/10/11/hud-issues-fair-housing-charge-against-wyoming-property-owner-management-agent-and-onsite-manager-for-familial-status-violation/

I attach the court complaint that was filed in September 2020 with an administrative law judge. Note how the family who made the complaint submitted its complaint nearly three years before filed suit, in November, 2017. Note how HUD alleges the family had to move into really crummy housing.

Unlawful housing discrimination is a big deal. But navigating the bureaucratic maze of submitting a HUD complaint is god-awful. Complainants burn out; suffer financial losses; become dismayed with government. They are typically impoverished and so particularly vulnerable to the worst that society has to offer. I am assisting someone in the thick of having his FHA complaint evaluated. Many months have passed. The stupid HOA is putting more screws on him. But the complaint is in slo-mo amidst the mighty cogs and gears of HUD's system. This man is suffering horribly.

I am not interested in off-the-top-of-one's-head impressions about the Fair Housing Act or violations of same.

Kids age 8 around here typically are allowed to go 1/2 mile from home.