Violations and Fines

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

Has anyone ever been in an hoa that was not established prior to anyone closing on their home, no enforcement of anything has ever been done and then 4 years after the development period was over they decide to begin enforcing things?
We have no rules or a fine schedule. We have no common areas. We only recently have bylaws but they were established long after everyone was in their homes and they’re generic at best.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

When the community is being built out, the developer may or may not be as stringent as perhaps they be because they're busy selling lots and building houses, so they can turn the community over to the homeowners as soon as possible and go on to the next thing. Some don't file the paperwork establishing the HOA until then. A lame excuse, but that's apparently what happened in your community.

Enforcing things doesn't only apply to the common areas - go back and read your documents and you'll probably see some guidelines regarding exterior changes to your home. Usually you need prior approval from the board of directors before putting in certain changes. Some CCRs address issues like pets, parking and trash. The intent is to ensure the community remains clean, safe and attractive - and Some of the rules keep the assholes at bay. CCRs can also be enforced by one homeowner against another.

If you don't enforce CCRs consistently, there is a danger someone will sue and a judge will say "this hasn't been enforced in a number of years, and this can be considered unenforceable.". That can turn into a real problem If the assholes take advantage. By then there might not be a thing you or the board can do. This could be Why you're beginning to see more enforcement .

Some boards are better than others at doing this and educate no downers on the process and offer an appeals process and establish a fining schedule that everyone is made aware of. It may be none of that happened in your community - or you didn't pay attention until you got a nastygram from the board.

If that's your situation, read your documents and the letter. You can either fix the problem or file an appeal and make your case before the board and see what happens. Perhaps this is a good time to look at the CCRs and see what should be added, dropped or amended. That will require homeowner approval, so some board's commission a special advisory committee to review them in detail and make recommendations to the board. Maybe YOU should suggest such a board be established - and then volunteer for it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 02/10/2021 4:48 AM
When the community is being built out, the developer may or may not be as stringent as perhaps they be because they're busy selling lots and building houses, so they can turn the community over to the homeowners as soon as possible and go on to the next thing. Some don't file the paperwork establishing the HOA until then. A lame excuse, but that's apparently what happened in your community.

Enforcing things doesn't only apply to the common areas - go back and read your documents and you'll probably see some guidelines regarding exterior changes to your home. Usually you need prior approval from the board of directors before putting in certain changes. Some CCRs address issues like pets, parking and trash. The intent is to ensure the community remains clean, safe and attractive - and Some of the rules keep the assholes at bay. CCRs can also be enforced by one homeowner against another.

If you don't enforce CCRs consistently, there is a danger someone will sue and a judge will say "this hasn't been enforced in a number of years, and this can be considered unenforceable.". That can turn into a real problem If the assholes take advantage. By then there might not be a thing you or the board can do. This could be Why you're beginning to see more enforcement .

Some boards are better than others at doing this and educate no downers on the process and offer an appeals process and establish a fining schedule that everyone is made aware of. It may be none of that happened in your community - or you didn't pay attention until you got a nastygram from the board.

If that's your situation, read your documents and the letter. You can either fix the problem or file an appeal and make your case before the board and see what happens. Perhaps this is a good time to look at the CCRs and see what should be added, dropped or amended. That will require homeowner approval, so some board's commission a special advisory committee to review them in detail and make recommendations to the board. Maybe YOU should suggest such a board be established - and then volunteer for it.

Not sure who you are calling “the assholes”. My question was to anyone who has been in my situation. Thanks for your input.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeenaS1 on 02/09/2021 10:20 PM
Has anyone ever been in an hoa that was not established prior to anyone closing on their home,

If the covenants were recorded with the county, and the covenants say that there shall be a HOA with such-and-such duties, then I question a claim that the HOA "was not established."

Quote:

no enforcement of anything has ever been done and then 4 years after the development period was over they decide to begin enforcing things?

I think four years in the law of covenants and the law of covenant abandonment may not be all that long.

If you care to elaborate on what this HOA is now trying to enforce; how the HOA is trying to enforce ____; exactly what the covenants say about _____ and enforcing the covenants, then I think this would probably be best.

I think I can understand how annoying it is for covenants not to be enforced for several years and then suddenly, bu-boom, the HOA is now trying to enforce the covenants. But what is legal for the HOA to do is not yet clear. You may end up having to check with a HOA attorney.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Did the CCRs or other governing docs in place when you bought the home specify that there would be an HOA? If so, then while that HOA might have been inactive for some period of time, legally it still existed and apparently some members have reactivated it. This could be legally valid.

If the CCRs did not specify or create an HOA, then you probably have legal grounds to fight any action by people claiming to be the HOA.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

The developer said there would be an hoa but never established one. There was no article of incorporation filed, no bylaws created, no ACC, no BOD.
The deed restrictions on file with the county do not contain a legal description or any other identifying information which points or attaches to our plat. The plat doesn’t reference the restrictive covenants. At closing, no hoa existed and no riders were signed.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeenaS1 on 02/10/2021 7:42 AM

The deed restrictions on file with the county do not contain a legal description or any other identifying information which points or attaches to our plat.

What, if anything, do the deed restrictions say about enforcing the covenants?

If the deed restrictions are silent about enforcement, then for Texans, I expect that one neighbor may enforce the restrictions by sending a letter of demand to the offending neighbor and then, as needed, filing for injunctive relief in a court. I expect the complaining neighbor has no other legal power.

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasK1 on 02/10/2021 6:35 AM
Did the CCRs or other governing docs in place when you bought the home specify that there would be an HOA? If so, then while that HOA might have been inactive for some period of time, legally it still existed and apparently some members have reactivated it. This could be legally valid.

If the CCRs did not specify or create an HOA, then you probably have legal grounds to fight any action by people claiming to be the HOA.

It’s actually even more complicated than this. The recorded restrictive covenants were not filed properly. They don’t attach to our plat.
It’s a pretty good mess which has divided our neighborhood.

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

If the restrictions are valid, they say we can be fined or sued by a neighbor. There are no fines lined out.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeenaS1 on 02/10/2021 6:08 AM

Posted By SheliaH on 02/10/2021 4:48 AM
When the community is being built out, the developer may or may not be as stringent as perhaps they be because they're busy selling lots and building houses, so they can turn the community over to the homeowners as soon as possible and go on to the next thing. Some don't file the paperwork establishing the HOA until then. A lame excuse, but that's apparently what happened in your community.

Enforcing things doesn't only apply to the common areas - go back and read your documents and you'll probably see some guidelines regarding exterior changes to your home. Usually you need prior approval from the board of directors before putting in certain changes. Some CCRs address issues like pets, parking and trash. The intent is to ensure the community remains clean, safe and attractive - and Some of the rules keep the assholes at bay. CCRs can also be enforced by one homeowner against another.

If you don't enforce CCRs consistently, there is a danger someone will sue and a judge will say "this hasn't been enforced in a number of years, and this can be considered unenforceable.". That can turn into a real problem If the assholes take advantage. By then there might not be a thing you or the board can do. This could be Why you're beginning to see more enforcement .

Some boards are better than others at doing this and educate no downers on the process and offer an appeals process and establish a fining schedule that everyone is made aware of. It may be none of that happened in your community - or you didn't pay attention until you got a nastygram from the board.

If that's your situation, read your documents and the letter. You can either fix the problem or file an appeal and make your case before the board and see what happens. Perhaps this is a good time to look at the CCRs and see what should be added, dropped or amended. That will require homeowner approval, so some board's commission a special advisory committee to review them in detail and make recommendations to the board. Maybe YOU should suggest such a board be established - and then volunteer for it.

Not sure who you are calling “the assholes”. My question was to anyone who has been in my situation. Thanks for your input.

hey

Those would be the people who act as if rules apply to everyone else but them, and it doesn't matter if they were educated on the rules or not. i'm not saying that's you - you're correct that the homeowners should be educated on the process, but there are others who were informed, but didn't pay attention until the became personally affected that's typical of many people about many things.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeenaS1 on 02/10/2021 8:04 AM
If the restrictions are valid, they say we can be fined or sued by a neighbor. There are no fines lined out.

And I believe the long-time members here will pretty consistently tell you that, from the info you have provided so far, those trying to impose fines have no legal authority to do so.

But neighbor Steve suing neighbor Nancy for Nancy's alleged violation of the covenants is more than within the realm of possibility. The suit would seek a court order, and not money per se, for Nancy to cure the violation.

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

Thank you all. I appreciate your opinions.i have stayed out of the drama but several homeowners are now getting together to obtain an attorney and I’m considering joining that effort.

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/10/2021 8:21 AM

Posted By GeenaS1 on 02/10/2021 8:04 AM
If the restrictions are valid, they say we can be fined or sued by a neighbor. There are no fines lined out.

And I believe the long-time members here will pretty consistently tell you that, from the info you have provided so far, those trying to impose fines have no legal authority to do so.

But neighbor Steve suing neighbor Nancy for Nancy's alleged violation of the covenants is more than within the realm of possibility. The suit would seek a court order, and not money per se, for Nancy to cure the violation.

Gotcha!

GeenaS1
Posts: 53

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/10/2021 8:21 AM

Posted By GeenaS1 on 02/10/2021 8:04 AM
If the restrictions are valid, they say we can be fined or sued by a neighbor. There are no fines lined out.

And I believe the long-time members here will pretty consistently tell you that, from the info you have provided so far, those trying to impose fines have no legal authority to do so.

But neighbor Steve suing neighbor Nancy for Nancy's alleged violation of the covenants is more than within the realm of possibility. The suit would seek a court order, and not money per se, for Nancy to cure the violation.

The issue here is that there was no hoa when we purchased. The board is rogue and self appointed. They feel they are untouchable because they have all the power and insurance. They’re in for a surprise.